Preview Round 5 - Melbourne Demons v Brisbane Lions (Thursday, 11 April 2024 @ 7:30pm)

[McIvor]

I am almost of the polar opposite opinion to you re Chris Fagan 3KZ which is fine, IMO he has well and truly earnt our support.

We seem to forget that this team was an ounce of luck and a couple of minutes away from winning a flag last season with Fagan as the coach.

I think you need to seperate Fagan the person and the coach. I think it’s also universally accepted that what Fagan has done for the club is undisputed; we were obviously on the road to nowhere and he made us relevant and a powerhouse, no to mention completely influential in retention and bringing players to the club. Again, I’ve never read or heard anyone say otherwise.

On the other hand, it’s not unreasonable to question his strict loyalty to his players and on field coaching. I recall after listening to Fagan on the special Road Deal at that amphitheater and it only solidifying my appreciation for Chris and thinking that he is honourable enough to know when his time is up. I still maintain that view, however, I think in the meantime, provided it’s done in a respectful manner, that his coaching / selection is open for discussion on this forum.

I personally don’t think he is a great day match day coach but our talent has generally seen to that we’ve won more than we lost or that he his loyalty to players has necessarily served them well but we won’t ever really know how things could’ve eventuated with someone else.

That all being said, I maintain that if things don’t go well this year that Chris will do the right thing and step aside and won’t require people calling for his head but you still won’t hear people ever not appreciate all he’s done for the club which I think people on hear, FB, Reddit etc tend to make out many people don’t appreciate it him.

 

[3KZ is Football]

What about the chances of Ryan Lester taking Fritsch at the start of the game

He would kill him.

 

[martinson]

I reckon Fritsch is a very smart player and would love to have him at the Lions. Despite everyone I speak to seeming to have some sort of dislike for him for a variety of reasons.

Starc is the best matchup for him. Lester has the nous but could get the runaround . Answerth ,no.

Dunno why everyone is so bearish. We've got a big chance in this game. It is however reasonably important that Pickett doesn't play.

 

[Lions Flag 2020]

Do we know if there will be a captains run on Wednesday or Thursday down in Melbourne? If so where and what time?

 

[M Malice]

Do we know if there will be a captains run on Wednesday or Thursday down in Melbourne? If so where and what time?

 

[twhowler]

I think you need to seperate Fagan the person and the coach. I think it’s also universally accepted that what Fagan has done for the club is undisputed; we were obviously on the road to nowhere and he made us relevant and a powerhouse, no to mention completely influential in retention and bringing players to the club. Again, I’ve never read or heard anyone say otherwise.

On the other hand, it’s not unreasonable to question his strict loyalty to his players and on field coaching. I recall after listening to Fagan on the special Road Deal at that amphitheater and it only solidifying my appreciation for Chris and thinking that he is honourable enough to know when his time is up. I still maintain that view, however, I think in the meantime, provided it’s done in a respectful manner, that his coaching / selection is open for discussion on this forum.

I personally don’t think he is a great day match day coach but our talent has generally seen to that we’ve won more than we lost or that he his loyalty to players has necessarily served them well but we won’t ever really know how things could’ve eventuated with someone else.

That all being said, I maintain that if things don’t go well this year that Chris will do the right thing and step aside and won’t require people calling for his head but you still won’t hear people ever not appreciate all he’s done for the club which I think people on hear, FB, Reddit etc tend to make out many people don’t appreciate it him.

I have banged on about this before but i think it's a failure by the club / board to not recognise our biggest weakness, by a long way, has been match day coach and gameplan / strategy. Not to say those have been hopeless. Just clearly not at the level of top sides, and it has hurt us in key games over the years.

It's not up to Fagan to change this. He is unlikely to say i am not a great match-day coach can you get me help. The club should have said at various points, why are we finishing high on the ladder and struggling in finals, why are we getting figured out in big games, even after last year why did we get found out so badly in the rucks and wings on grand final day - and got proactive on getting a serious senior assistant coach to share the match-day coaching and bring new ideas to strategy.

Leigh Matthews has been lauded as a great coach. He coached in simpler times, but he was also a coach much more about motivation and bringing a talented group together for a common goal as a good motivator of people. Matthews needed O'Donnell. He would have struggled without him - O'Donnell was a big part of bringing together gameplan and moves on matchday.

I don't know how we are traveling with the soft cap, but surely it was worth going over for a couple of years to see if it could make a difference. The Trent Cotchin appointment is fine but seems a bit token to me - like admitting we need something to take us to the next step but not really offering a genuine solution.

Anyway the way we have started the year we will lose our next 3 and it will all be academic!

 

[martinson]

I think you need to seperate Fagan the person and the coach. I think it’s also universally accepted that what Fagan has done for the club is undisputed; we were obviously on the road to nowhere and he made us relevant and a powerhouse, no to mention completely influential in retention and bringing players to the club. Again, I’ve never read or heard anyone say otherwise.

On the other hand, it’s not unreasonable to question his strict loyalty to his players and on field coaching. I recall after listening to Fagan on the special Road Deal at that amphitheater and it only solidifying my appreciation for Chris and thinking that he is honourable enough to know when his time is up. I still maintain that view, however, I think in the meantime, provided it’s done in a respectful manner, that his coaching / selection is open for discussion on this forum.

I personally don’t think he is a great day match day coach but our talent has generally seen to that we’ve won more than we lost or that he his loyalty to players has necessarily served them well but we won’t ever really know how things could’ve eventuated with someone else.

That all being said, I maintain that if things don’t go well this year that Chris will do the right thing and step aside and won’t require people calling for his head but you still won’t hear people ever not appreciate all he’s done for the club which I think people on hear, FB, Reddit etc tend to make out many people don’t appreciate it him.

Pretty much agree with that McIvor.

The way things are shaping up maybe 2025 will be our year and there's no chance of Fages stepping aside nor any chance of us terminating him prior to end '25 imo.

Maybe what he could with is a robust and smart Assistant Coach. I don't even know that we have one.

 

[martinson]

I have banged on about this before but i think it's a failure by the club / board to not recognise our biggest weakness, by a long way, has been match day coach and gameplan / strategy. Not to say those have been hopeless. Just clearly not at the level of top sides, and it has hurt us in key games over the years.

It's not up to Fagan to change this. He is unlikely to say i am not a great match-day coach can you get me help. The club should have said at various points, why are we finishing high on the ladder and struggling in finals, why are we getting figured out in big games, even after last year why did we get found out so badly in the rucks and wings on grand final day - and got proactive on getting a serious senior assistant coach to share the match-day coaching and bring new ideas to strategy.

Leigh Matthews has been lauded as a great coach. He coached in simpler times, but he was also a coach much more about motivation and bringing a talented group together for a common goal as a good motivator of people. Matthews needed O'Donnell. He would have struggled without him - O'Donnell was a big part of bringing together gameplan and moves on matchday.

I don't know how we are traveling with the soft cap, but surely it was worth going over for a couple of years to see if it could make a difference. The Trent Cotchin appointment is fine but seems a bit token to me - like admitting we need something to take us to the next step but not really offering a genuine solution.

Anyway the way we have started the year we will lose our next 3 and it will all be academic!

Danny Daly seems to be the tactician on gameday still isn't he ? which is a lot on his plate seeing he's CEO.

 

[Elixuh]

Danny Daly seems to be the tactician on gameday still isn't he ? which is a lot on his plate seeing he's CEO.

Isnt Swanny CEO

 

[3KZ is Football]

I reckon Fritsch is a very smart player and would love to have him at the Lions. Despite everyone I speak to seeming to have some sort of dislike for him for a variety of reasons.

Starc is the best matchup for him. Lester has the nous but could get the runaround . Answerth ,no.

Dunno why everyone is so bearish. We've got a big chance in this game. It is however reasonably important that Pickett doesn't play.

Starcevich flies under the Critique Radar, but he has been “off” big time this year. Just rewatching the North game and case in point is in the second quarter where Starcevich drops a simple uncontested mark, Greenwood swoops - Goal North. His decision making has also been diabolical at times. I’d back Lester in terms of smarts and the ability to compete in the air. Lester will also make Fritsch accountable when he is rebounding through the middle. I would play Starcevich on a less creative player.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Starcevich flies under the Critique Radar, but he has been “off” big time this year. His decision making has been diabolical at times. I’d back Lester in terms of smarts and the ability to compete in the air. Lester will also make Fritsch accountable when he is rebounding through the middle. I would play Starcevich on a less creative player.

Just check our Lester’s corridor running in the first quarter against North. Burst down the middle, perfect delivery inside 50 to the top of the square, Daniher marks and goals. Then with a minute and a bit to go, intercept marks inside defensive 50 gets it moving, sprints up the middle following Wilmott up, applies a great shepherd for Wilmott who gets it to McCarthy for a goal. Lester’s running and ability to read the play were excellent on both occasions and led to two goals on the rebound. He is KILLING IT! Confidence is high and the idea that he is slow and can’t run is DEAD AND BURIED.

 

[martinson]

Isnt Swanny CEO

Sorry yes. Danny is footy manager .

 

[Maboo]

Let’s hope Fagan isn’t playing the whale song and burning the relaxing aromatic oils at half time this week. His ability to put a team to sleep or not keep them on their toes is becoming legendary. Can’t afford the Traditional In-game Nap Time this week. #TINT

It is going to be tough being you when Fages is extended at the end of the year, Lester and Lyons are delisted and Rayner
Is made sole captain.

 

[SpecialBruce]

There is little point hoping Rayner can step up in the midfield this Thursday. The last time we played Melbourne in Rd.18, 2023, Rayner had a paltry 8 disposals, managing only 3 in the first half. That game he attended 4 centre bounces and managed 0 clearances for the game. He also failed to hold a mark.

This sort of clutch, big occasion game in Melbourne is precisely the sort of game that Rayner goes missing in.

After his sub-standard performance against North Melbourne (attended 9 Centre Bounces and had a ZERO clearance game / 4 contested possessions from his game total of 14 disposals / managed a single tackle, which came in the last quarter) he really should be ‘managed’ this week and Lyons should come in. At least we know Lyons will get first hands on the ball and tackle hard. He is a midfielder who CAN support Neale.

We should also drop Gardiner and include Robertson. He should get a tagging role in the middle. Fagan’s Three Tall Forward strategy is a crock. The fact that he stubbornly clings to it simply demonstrates one of his flaws as a coach.

Good in theory. Will never happen in practice.

 

[SpecialBruce]

Considering our MCG hoodoo and start to the year, this is a season defining game. I hope we can go out there and win. If we do, it will kick start our season. If we lose, it could be curtains for 2024 in regards to flag ambitions. To win the flag, we need to win at the MCG and backs against the wall, it needs to happen this game.

 

[SpecialBruce]

Reality is Gawn is a champion player and Oscar , for all that we love him , is an average one.

So it makes sense that Oscar does all he can for as long as he can to negate Gawn.

Two rucks. Fort to take Gawn around the ground. Oscar hasn't got the ability to stop Gawn one on one around the ground. Double team him

 

[beardancer]

Starcevich flies under the Critique Radar, but he has been “off” big time this year. Just rewatching the North game and case in point is in the second quarter where Starcevich drops a simple uncontested mark, Greenwood swoops - Goal North. His decision making has also been diabolical at times. I’d back Lester in terms of smarts and the ability to compete in the air. Lester will also make Fritsch accountable when he is rebounding through the middle. I would play Starcevich on a less creative player.

Yeah, and ducked his head too.

 

[SpecialBruce]

I am almost of the polar opposite opinion to you re Chris Fagan 3KZ which is fine, IMO he has well and truly earnt our support.

We seem to forget that this team was an ounce of luck and a couple of minutes away from winning a flag last season with Fagan as the coach.

We didn't though. We need to remember that Hipwood went missing, Rayner and Berry choked and Fagan wasn't quick enough with tactics. Hipwood should have been subbed for Lyons at half time when it was clear Hipwood was offering nothing. Tactically he isn't that good. Ripping bloke, nice bloke, has turned the club around, but all this 'we were only an ounce of luck away and close' is not the way to be seeing it IMO. Need to learn from the mistakes. Have they learned from the mistakes? That is what we will find out, hopefully, in September, when we are there again.

 

[Denno]

Starcevich flies under the Critique Radar, but he has been “off” big time this year. Just rewatching the North game and case in point is in the second quarter where Starcevich drops a simple uncontested mark, Greenwood swoops - Goal North. His decision making has also been diabolical at times. Blah blah blah Lester blah blah blah.

Don't agree at all. I think he's actually been better than last year, overall, so far (with a few turnovers, granted).

If you're going to pick out one piece of play and extrapolate, what about the 3 goals Lester had kicked on him in a qtr against Freo?

This isn't Lester v Starcevich by the way - personally, I'm OK with how the latter is going at the moment.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Don't agree at all. I think he's actually been better than last year, overall, so far (with a few turnovers, granted).

If you're going to pick out one piece of play and extrapolate, what about the 3 goals Lester had kicked on him in a qtr against Freo?

This isn't Lester v Starcevich by the way - personally, I'm OK with how the latter is going at the moment.

Or Lester’s soft tackle effort on Curtis which led to his goal

 

[3KZ is Football]

Don't agree at all. I think he's actually been better than last year, overall, so far (with a few turnovers, granted).

If you're going to pick out one piece of play and extrapolate, what about the 3 goals Lester had kicked on him in a qtr against Freo?

This isn't Lester v Starcevich by the way - personally, I'm OK with how the latter is going at the moment.

No it’s not. Comments regarding Starcevich in relation to who is best to play on Fritsch.

 

[Bucking Beads]

This is a good game to get Harry Sharp in to run the wings. Get the kid running with Langdon all night. The Dees run hard so we’ll need to do the same to be in this. The talent is there but mentally and tactically we haven’t been with it in 2024 yet.

 

[SpecialBruce]

This is a good game to get Harry Sharp in to run the wings. Get the kid running with Langdon all night. The Dees run hard so we’ll need to do the same to be in this. The talent is there but mentally and tactically we haven’t been with it in 2024 yet.

Has he been playing wing in reserves?

 

[rye]

View attachment 1953161

Round 5 starts with a blockbuster at the MCG between Melbourne and Brisbane. Melbourne is one of the form teams of the competition and has had a strong start to the season winning their first four of five games, while Brisbane has had a slow start only managing to win one out of our first four. Despite this disparity, we will hopefully see an entertaining match on Thursday night.

Past results

View attachment 1953179

What to look out for - Melbourne
There are three key parts of Melbourne's game to watch out for.

LEVER & MAY
Can we limit the effectiveness of Lever and May in the air? Lever and May have routinely dominated the competition for a number of years now and May is in excellent form in 2024. It is a big task for our talls in Joe, Eric and Darcy, but all three need to ensure they compete and at least halve the contest for our smalls.

Equally, will we see some chaos ball entries to combat Lever and May's influence? To do that our smalls will need to go to work and drastically improve our ground ball numbers.

View attachment 1953202View attachment 1953267

Dees midfield
The Dees midfield has weakened since the highs of 2021 and 2022 when they were trafficking the ball our of the middle with power and speed. While still formidable, the untimely retirement of Brayshaw and Clayton Oliver suffering 10 month 'calf injuries' has brought them back to the pack.

Even so, the likes of Gawn, Petracca and old man Viney should not be taken lightly. All three are having a stellar season and we will need the likes of big O, Clug, Dunkley, Rayner and Bailey to lift to help Choc.

View attachment 1953223View attachment 1953224View attachment 1953233

Up forward
When the Demons struggle, it's usually because their forward line has difficulty kicking goals. Whether that's ball movement or a lack of cohesion inside 50. The human missile Kozzy Pickett is a handy out for us as he serves his latest suspension, one of the best small forward in the game. As we know from previous games, Bailey Fritsch can also get dangerous but has been more inconsistent over the past 18 months. Ben Brown serves as the Dees big tall forward and has posed problems for us in the past.

But the big question I think every Lions fan is wondering...will the dees inject the deadly Schacheattack into the side to dominate us. We will have to wait and see.

View attachment 1953242View attachment 1953245

What to look out for - Brisbane

I think it is pretty simple for us.

For the stats nerds, I've read that our most pressing areas to address are:

• defensive 50 stoppages - we have conceded far too many scores this season, can we tighten this up? Not having Kozzy playing helps.
• ground ball in our forward 50 - can our smalls work over the dees defenders and make them pay?

I myself am not a stats man and think with my heart. All I want from the boys on Thursday night is the following:

• Intensity, pressure and mental focus across four quarters.
• Energy. Have fun. Celebrate. Get around the boys. Enjoy playing the game.
• Fagan on the bench.

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Prediction
Lions by 19.

Something nice for dinner while you watch the game
Being a 730pm game, we should all be having something nice and nutritious for dinner while we watch the Lions trounce the Dees. So here is Christian Petracca making Cashew Chicken.



Have fun and enjoy the game. And don't forget to melt in the gameday thread!

not enough emphasis on viney being your favourite non-lions player

 

[lioninthesand]

Anyone know if there’s training on at BHAs tomorrow?