Review Round 7, 2024 - GWS vs. Brisbane Lions

[notliondown]

I know it's an unpopular opinion but I really don't rate McCarthy. He's another one of our players that will only do the grunt work when it suits him and is more interested in taking massive species or staying off the pack for easy ball.

If you look at the bottom of most packs in our forward 50 it's Berry and Fletcher and Dunkley... while the small forwards stand off waiting for the glory shot. There's too many players who jog up to the back of pack while others are doing the hard yards and Linc is a repeat offender this year.

 

[M Malice]

I did notice last night that quite a number of our regular 100% tryers like McCluggage, Neale, Dunkley, McCarthy looked like they were deflated and resigned to our fate early in the 2nd half.

A few times I was thinking gee put in some effort about players I would never of thought that of, stuck in quicksand... it was like a game of Gazelles against Sloths.

 

[JasRulz63]

So we found someone to cover for Coleman this year and decided we didn't need it any more. Hmmmmm

I mean we also thought that two tall forwards worked too well last year, so we decided to make Gardiner a third tall forward.

 

[Lion_LegacyXL]

We're cooked

I had a small spectre of hope that we could still turn our season around before last night, now I've come to terms and accepted that we're out of flag contention for the season. We're unfit, slow, mentally checked out, disinterested, our attitude is poor and our confidence is shot. There's something deeply wrong with the culture inside the club. Players need to be held accountable regardless of their reputation. Next week 3-5 players need to be dropped and we desperately need an injection of freshness.

The most disappointing aspect of our losses this year is we just simply give up and when we're only 3 goals down you know the game is over. We're not mentally resilient, we don't show any heart, we don't support each other or communicate. Players stop running, contesting, tackling, offering options in front of the ball etc. In the off season we should be looking for new coaching staff. We need fresh ideas, perspectives and leadership because teams have figured us out and successfully deconstructed our game plan time and time again and we're unable to adapt. We need a deeper bag of tricks and to be able to adapt.

I hope this only a 12 month rebuild and we'll be back contending in 2025.

 

[McIvor]

It’s time to start the rebuild. The longer we hold off the longer it will be until we be not competing for a flag again. We had our 5 years of finals and now we’re done. Missed a flag but had some fun..

Worse yet is if we attempt to hit the draft in the years Tassie comes in with 3-4 compromised drafts. We’ve seen how well we did when Suns / Giants came in and our success with the draft.

 

[martinson]

We're cooked

I had a small spectre of hope that we could still turn our season around before last night, now I've come to terms and accepted that we're out of flag contention for the season. We're unfit, slow, mentally checked out, disinterested, our attitude is poor and our confidence is shot. There's something deeply wrong with the culture inside the club. Players need to be held accountable regardless of their reputation. Next week 3-5 players need to be dropped and we desperately need an injection of freshness.

The most disappointing aspect of our losses this year is we just simply give up and when we're only 3 goals down you know the game is over. We're not mentally resilient, we don't show any heart, we don't support each other or communicate. Players stop running, contesting, tackling, offering options in front of the ball etc. In the off season we should be looking for new coaching staff. We need fresh ideas, perspectives and leadership because teams have figured us out and successfully deconstructed our game plan time and time again and we're unable to adapt. We need a deeper bag of tricks and to be able to adapt.

I hope this only a 12 month rebuild and we'll be back contending in 2025.

Sadly this is exactly how it looks.

Fingers crossed though this is just a learning phase

 

[Nathan Barley]

Zorko was basically playing as an extremely high half forward last night. So basically half back without an opponent. His kicking like most in our team last night was very poor but a lot of that had to do with our forwards not presenting and us not pulling the trigger fast enough when we won the ball in our backline.

While Andrews intercept marking is a weapon defensively I get the feeling we rarely score from his intercepts because the opposition can set up quickly enough so we can’t get the ball in a dangerous position and then it just bounces back out of our forward line.

 

[McIvor]

One thing that really concerns me about the forward line is that no one is able to get separation on their defenders. Every kick to them they have a defender basically on top off them (or the ball goes over their head).

Daniher and Hipwood are not contested markers and do way better on the lead, pushing up and back with speed and agility to give them selves space. Similar with Cameron his best attribute was always speed and getting away from his man. But either they have all slowed way way down, they arent leading properly to create space, or our game plan is way too stagnant and they only lead once the ball is kicked at them

Have maintained ever since we let McStay walk that it was a misguided decision not to pay him more on the deal he got. He’s much better than Hipwood and is the type of forward were desperately lacking. Maybe he doesn’t stay anyway but as mentioned here when I raised this before is that some say he’s done acl; so why does that mean he does an acl here.

Anyway, very poor list management to not do more to retain him and give the deal and money to others. For all the praise our recruiters and list management receive ; I reckon they’re pretty average at recognising the right players required for the modern game.

 

[martinson]

Zorko was basically playing as an extremely high half forward last night. So basically half back without an opponent. His kicking like most in our team last night was very poor but a lot of that had to do with our forwards not presenting and us not pulling the trigger fast enough when we won the ball in our backline.

While Andrews intercept marking is a weapon defensively I get the feeling we rarely score from his intercepts because the opposition can set up quickly enough so we can’t get the ball in a dangerous position and then it just bounces back out of our forward line.

Good points. Zorko's disposal just didn't suddenly fall off a cliff last night. He couldn't find anyone with space to kick it to.

The issue with Harris has been there all along and we need someone to run off him for the handball

 

[Donald Trump]

ROBBED. WORST UMPIRING EVER. TOTAL DISGRACE. VERY VERY SAD FOR THE TEAM.

 

[Lion_LegacyXL]

Our scoring this season has been a massive issue. Defence might win premierships but we're not winning many games with full time scores of 59 points. 37 points against Geelong last week, I don't care if it was in the wet it's still a sh!t score after 4 quarters.

 

[KissKiss]

Have maintained ever since we let McStay walk that it was a misguided decision not to pay him more on the deal he got. He’s much better than Hipwood and is the type of forward were desperately lacking. Maybe he doesn’t stay anyway but as mentioned here when I raised this before is that some say he’s done acl; so why does that mean he does an acl here.

Anyway, very poor list management to not do more to retain him and give the deal and money to others. For all the praise our recruiters and list management receive ; I reckon they’re pretty average at recognising the right players required for the modern game.

Been of the same opinion for some time. Daniher and Hipwood are too similar in styles. McStay offered something different but was also more of the workhorse who did more defensive work than either of them. I got the logic of keeping the local boy in Hipwood but onfield it didnt make sense

 

[Berrygood]

I wanted to think about things a bit before I got on here. I'll start with the highlight of the night and that was the young soldier singing the national anthem with no music and the whole crowd in total silence.

About the game, we were beaten by a younger, faster, fitter, stronger, better coached team. GWS were very good. That has to be said.

We were very bad. Stating the obvious hey? Turnover after turnover, out of position because of it. Bombing deep to a pack, then wasting opportunities with bad goal kicking. The intent to kick the ball lower n sharper in general play is there but were either biting off more than we can chew or under or over kicking them. Skill error after skill error. We looked very tired, but a 5 day turnaround after a hard slog in the wet can't be easy. Another week like last week where everyone was as bad as each other, so it's not worthwhile lowlighting individual players. The frustrating thing is that we don't have bad players. They are just playing badly and bad as a team.

What do we do? Who bloody knows. We have a bit of a run of easier run games now, I think we've gotta hope the slump ends with the team were playing now and get on a form and confidence building run. I'm not getting the slasher out just yet. If things haven't changed by the bye, it's time to do so. Time to test the kids and change things up.

Where does it leave our season? I'm not going to have another heart attack over it, lol. We make the 8 or we don't. That's sport, that's footy. I've said before that a lot has to go right to win a flag and there's been a lot go wrong already. Factors within our control, and factors we can do absolutely nothing about. Teams n players have slumps, some teams just have a shitty seasons. There's no rhyme or reason to it, it just happens. Geelong had an ordinary season last year, Pies had theirs before that. I think we need to lose all expectations for this season. Enjoy the wins we have. Watch the continued development of Wilmot, Lohmann, Fletcher. See Ashcroft return as strong as ever. While I think top 4 is out, making the 8 is now our ceiling this season and anything can happen from there. Not making the 8 will be disappointing but not the end of the world. And definitely not the close of the premiership window.

 

[royboys4eva]

What has happened to this team?? The GF loss was suppose to spur them in 2024. Instead we look like a side who has gone to the well too many times and can't do it or don't want to do it anymore?

The second half was abysmal and even if you factor in the 4 day break (same for GWS) the wet conditions we played in - the effort was non existent. Granted GWS for me are the best team in the comp right now.

I don't envy Lachie Neale

9

Lachie Neale

Age

30

Ht

178cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

27.0

5star

K

11.5

4star

HB

15.5

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

3.7

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

28.3

5star

K

13.9

5star

HB

14.4

5star

M

4.6

4star

T

4.0

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

12.0

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

7.4

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

1.0

3star

CL

0.4

3star

getting hit off the ball a dozen times a match - but it looks like its starting to take it's toll on him. Who is in their protecting him?

We were never a fast side but last night we looked so one paced. Also I feel like teams have figured us out a bit. We kick long to three talls. The forward line is so out of form. But, also the slow ball movement down field doesn't help. Daniher is trying to play bruise free footy. Also the issue with three talls is as soon as the opposition win the ball down back we have no ability to shut down the run.

The Gardiner experiment hasn't worked - he provides grunt but he would be lucky to kick 10 goals all year playing up forward. Time to try young Morris or Ryan. We got Ryan for a reason and then played Gardiner up forward?

Lyons is not the answer, as he is more of the same one pace runner. Sharp probably needs a few matches to see if he has it or not? I'm not certain he does but now is the time to find out. Least he will run both ways.

We have a pretty good run with injuries in Fagan's time but it caught up to us this year. The minute Coleman went down I knew we were in big trouble. His ability to read the ball and kicking ability is so underrated.

Fagan needs to just keep playing Answerth - Lohman - Tunstill -Fletcher even if they have poor games. Wilmot is going to be very good. Payne keep playing him although he is other another I worry about.

Finally I think we can agree the conversation is over about our best ruck. It isn't Fort !!

 

[twhowler]

THE GOOD

Had to really scratch my head but.......

- Most of the second quarter. We were well on top. All over them. It was a good response from being down early. Seemed to show we realised the season was on the line.

THE BAD

- The end of the second quarter. What on earth happened? Handed them the lead and ascendancy.

- Zorko having his role changed. seemed to be playing half forward as a half back? Why change what he was doing when it was going so well? Why give the giants more space to operate the tsunami? Just baffling stuff.

- Fort as the main ruck. Just can't see it.

THE UGLY

- Goal-kicking - missed some absolute sitters. Daniher / Hipwood / Fort set shots. Lohman snap from not far at all. Absolutely energy-sapping

- Overall coaching effort - we let them overlap with ridiculous ease. Our forward line clogged, their's so open. When things went wrong - nothing. No big changes. No imagination. Honestly so sick of our steady as it goes approach. We must be so easy to coach against, just try things until they work and know we won't react.

- Second half - we just gave up didn't we? And from the moment they got 3 goals up, after Daniher's miss, you could see the playing group just drop their heads. the lack of on-field leaedership is glaring. i didn't love him as captain but at least zorko would be in there yelling at people. we seem to meek with good guys Neale and Andrews.

- Lots of other things i will try to get through therapy.


So how can we improve on-field leadership? Captain / captains are always top of the list.

Who else could we put in there? I just went through the list. Options: Dunkley? He seems to fit the mould. Starcevich? I like his passion and fight. Maybe it would help him grow as he has been patchy on field. Ashcroft? might sound ridiculous. he is 19yo and coming off a knee. But he honestly seems a cut above the rest in his professionalism and how much he cares. i am not saying now but we should be shaking this up at the end of the year.

I would do something along the lines of

Captain - Harris Andrews

31

Harris Andrews

Age

27

Ht

202cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.8

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.6

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

151.7

2star

D

17.0

4star

K

9.0

4star

HB

8.0

4star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.0

3star

D

9.8

3star

K

5.0

2star

HB

4.8

4star

M

3.4

4star

T

1.6

4star

MG

94.0

2star

. Make him the solo skipper and tell him you fly the flag and fire them up if we seem flat. He is on the ground the whole time and can do things like a huge mark or defensive punch to lead by example

Vice-Captains - Neale - has been okay just think he is a bit laid back. Ashcroft - let's groom him for the role early.

The rest - just get a kick, play football, do your thing, you don't need a prize, you'll be okay.

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

Good points. Zorko's disposal just didn't suddenly fall off a cliff last night. He couldn't find anyone with space to kick it to.

The issue with Harris has been there all along and we need someone to run off him for the handball

Agree, when we have players presenting for that quick short kick , we generally pull it off. Our game flows if we keep taking those options without hestitaion. Our kickers look better.
It feels like when things slow down, hold it a few more seconds, don't go that first option or there is no one presenting, we feel the pressure and the defenders get closer things go pear shaped.

Also think it would make it easier for guys who just don't possess A grade long kicking skills , bit on the shaky side , but great runners. Come on down Sharpie.
Bit like Squizzy Taylor in presenting , link players that get there.
We need to commit to more this style, I don't understand sometimes, I really don't, it seems to be just bloody work rate.

 

[Section 5]

I wanted to think about things a bit before I got on here. I'll start with the highlight of the night and that was the young soldier singing the national anthem with no music and the whole crowd in total silence.

About the game, we were beaten by a younger, faster, fitter, stronger, better coached team. GWS were very good. That has to be said.

We were very bad. Stating the obvious hey? Turnover after turnover, out of position because of it. Bombing deep to a pack, then wasting opportunities with bad goal kicking. The intent to kick the ball lower n sharper in general play is there but were either biting off more than we can chew or under or over kicking them. Skill error after skill error. We looked very tired, but a 5 day turnaround after a hard slog in the wet can't be easy. Another week like last week where everyone was as bad as each other, so it's not worthwhile lowlighting individual players. The frustrating thing is that we don't have bad players. They are just playing badly and bad as a team.

What do we do? Who bloody knows. We have a bit of a run of easier run games now, I think we've gotta hope the slump ends with the team were playing now and get on a form and confidence building run. I'm not getting the slasher out just yet. If things haven't changed by the bye, it's time to do so. Time to test the kids and change things up.

Where does it leave our season? I'm not going to have another heart attack over it, lol. We make the 8 or we don't. That's sport, that's footy. I've said before that a lot has to go right to win a flag and there's been a lot go wrong already. Factors within our control, and factors we can do absolutely nothing about. Teams n players have slumps, some teams just have a shitty seasons. There's no rhyme or reason to it, it just happens. Geelong had an ordinary season last year, Pies had theirs before that. I think we need to lose all expectations for this season. Enjoy the wins we have. Watch the continued development of Wilmot, Lohmann, Fletcher. See Ashcroft return as strong as ever. While I think top 4 is out, making the 8 is now our ceiling this season and anything can happen from there. Not making the 8 will be disappointing but not the end of the world. And definitely not the close of the premiership window.

Agree pretty much with all you have said.
Top 8 is the aim now and also hope we are playing at our best come that time. Winning at home again will help lots.

With Ashcroft out that took away a lot of zip and pace from our midfield and it has hurt us to date.
Then the only other parttime mid in Bailey with some zip and pace goes down for 5 weeks.
That then put us in the very slow midfield category. That followed with two very bad loses.

So, who from the VFL have we got to choose from. It's Lyons, Tunstill, Dev (injured), Torrent all without those qualities.
Then you have Sharp that has the qualities but i prefer Reville over what we know about Sharp
They need to try Reville in that Bailey roll it can only fail.
However, he must get reasonable midfield minutes, or it is a waste of time bringing him in.

 

[twhowler]

Another thing we never do - Fagan TALKS of squads winning premierships - is rotate some players off a super short break.

We don't have a dozen players knocking the door down.

But could Sharp not have come in as the best runner in the club? In for Gardiner, go a bit smaller, get more run. Perish the thought we would be tactical! we have what 2-3 5 day breaks in the year. You would think you could plan for them and actually freshen up the side.

Throw in one of the potential debutants a few have spoken about, get some spark like the giants did from their debut?

Nah let's make minimum changes AGAIN.

 

[Bucking Beads]

Another thing we never do - Fagan TALKS of squads winning premierships - is rotate some players off a super short break.

We don't have a dozen players knocking the door down.

But could Sharp not have come in as the best runner in the club? In for Gardiner, go a bit smaller, get more run. Perish the thought we would be tactical! we have what 2-3 5 day breaks in the year. You would think you could plan for them and actually freshen up the side.

Throw in one of the potential debutants a few have spoken about, get some spark like the giants did from their debut?

Nah let's make minimum changes AGAIN.

Fagan has never done that but he certainly should be considering it. Geelong did it superbly in 2022 IIRC

 

[buttermuffs]

I think two bad jokes in the one day is probably too much though...

I turned it off at three quarter time since it was past my bedtime but here’s my thoughts.

Good:

- Harris and Payne did well in the aerial contests.

- Charlie at least found some of the football and kicked a couple.

- Fletcher and McCarthy had some sexy goals.

Neutral:

- Joe had five clearances and three goal assists but failed to make any other scoreboard impact. His miss at the start of the third felt like a massive momentum shift.

- Berry is finding great places to get the ball and is doing well is traffic to find space. Only problem is that he struggles to hit the target right now and should probably look to hand it off if possible.

• Rayner got a couple goals but had only nine touches, three clearances and seven centre bounce attendances. Glad he made the forward impact but we didn’t see what we saw against Melbourne which isn’t unexpected unfortunately. Not sure why he got so little time in the centre again, only a third of what our other main three mids got.
• Lohmann is finding areas to be threatening.

Bad:

- No offence to Fort but he got torn apart in the first half.

- I’m happy with the time we spent seeing if Gardiner forward would be worthwhile but happy to see it over. As others have mentioned, we all expected a much more defensive role for him but that hasn’t been the case. Our forward line doesn’t need him and his spot would be better used to debut Smith/Morris or play Ryan.

- Our forward line is struggling massively right now with converting inside fifties, see above about needing another forward who can actually hit the scoreboard.

- Not sure why we moved Zorko forward and not Answerth. Ah Chee feels a bit stuck in no man’s land as well.

- Some might disagree but Hipwood gives 110% but just is down on form at the moment. I’m not sure he’s droppable at the moment, because we have no other experienced talk forwards and it’d be better to try out Ryan/Smith/Morris in for Gardiner first.

- Our team transition defence was caught out and is snowballed when the team seemed to collectively throw in the towel. I can’t in good conscience blame the backline when those scores almost always occur from the midfield and forward line giving no support.

 

[Donald Trump]

Lions woes are 100% between the ears. There is nothing on paper to differentiate hammering Melbourne two weeks ago to being belted by GWS yesterday.
NADA. So what's the problem. Disunity? Apathy? Who knows. But it's a funk they need to shake.
This was a truly listless performance.

 

[25 years on]

One thing that really concerns me about the forward line is that no one is able to get separation on their defenders. Every kick to them they have a defender basically on top off them (or the ball goes over their head).

Daniher and Hipwood are not contested markers and do way better on the lead, pushing up and back with speed and agility to give them selves space. Similar with Cameron his best attribute was always speed and getting away from his man. But either they have all slowed way way down, they arent leading properly to create space, or our game plan is way too stagnant and they only lead once the ball is kicked at them

Our fwd line will always get beaten because the opposition know a long kick to a contest is coming. Joe, Eric nor Charlie are contested mark players, why play as if they are?

 

[25 years on]

Our plans,A,B,C is kick to a contest, all the other teams know this, I watch every game in the hope that our first clean kick opportunity is something different, if it is I keep watching with excitement, if it is a long kick to a contest I know it will be a long game that we probably lose and it will be another nail in the coffin of my interest in the Brisbane Lions, I am not a fair weather follower,I have even a member since Carrara.

 

[martinson]

I've had my whinge so let's look at the positives from last night.

But for some errant kicking and them getting an after the siren goal on top of kicking some belters from all over the ground we should have had a comfortable lead at half time.

Andrews, Lester and Payne were solid all night and kept us in the game for a half. Paynie had been doing my head in with his half hearted efforts in some games but that wasn't the case last night and he stuck at it to the end.

Berry was all over the ground and tried his absolute guts out. I can put up with his miscues because effort wise he put some of the others to shame and at least has a crack at trying to give us some run and overlap. And helps the defenders out.

Wilmot was the other player who at least tried to get run and overlap going and we're going to be forced to play him further upfield or in the m/f before too long.

McKenna needed the hit out but once he gets his fitness up you can see that he adds some bite to the back half.

We were so poor in the second half that surely that is a wake up call that we're not that good and that could jolt us into improving enough to win our next 4 games.

Our forwards were poor but not as poor as they looked due to the m/f collapsing. Hipwood at least tries really hard even if nothing's working for him at the moment. Rayner can kick goals if we give him the responsibility and don't stick him in the forward pocket because we insist on playing Dizz.

That's it.

 

[mighty_lions]

I know it's an unpopular opinion but I really don't rate McCarthy. He's another one of our players that will only do the grunt work when it suits him and is more interested in taking massive species or staying off the pack for easy ball.

If you look at the bottom of most packs in our forward 50 it's Berry and Fletcher and Dunkley... while the small forwards stand off waiting for the glory shot. There's too many players who jog up to the back of pack while others are doing the hard yards and Linc is a repeat offender this year.

this is probably the worst take ive seen, linc does all the little things right, he did have one bad moment tried to hit a pass on the left and it got chopped off and turn over