Review Round 6 - Sydney @ The SCG - 21st April 2024 - 1pm AEST

[Jirik13]

Pressure points
Walter 44
King 8

 

[Mini GF]

Pressure points
Walter 44
King 8

I’ve made my thoughts known on Ben King. Harden up.

 

[exile]

Where’s Read then? Clearly he is going to be a superb footballer.
Is he our Ruck when Witts retires?

tbh collins will retire soon and there'll be a gap there we'll need to fill. not sure if he's suited for it but it could be worth trying. if we lose moyle, obvious answer is to replace witts. probably the right timeframe and i think his mobility would be really well suited to the ruck for the modern game.

 

[MarcLocksCrustySock]

More about forward and midfield pressure imo. Swans just walked the ball out of the backline and through the middle unimpeded. Matthew Scarlett would struggle to defend against that. People in here will get the pitchforks out but Touks defensive intent has not been at the same level it was 2021/2022. There was at least 2 separate occasions his inability to check his direct opponent cost us goals. Midfield needs to be more accountable when we turn the ball over. To much jogging and switching going on.

Completely agree. Midfield was the let down on this one. Defence is our most dependable line imo. Midfield are the most influential when they show up. A couple weeks this year they've just looked shades down from the week prior. Might be the adjustment phase but I'm not even speculating or trying to. Time will tell.

 

[GC2015]

It's a fair question, and points well made but King is not a natural forward, after 6 years he averages 7.5 touches a game. He plonks himself deep forward, doesn't chase, doesn't tackle, doesn't present to the ball carrier, he just waves his arms to say kick it deep and he tries to outmark his opponent, often out numbered 2-1. He has no connection with his midfield who he should have synergy with by now. But not one of our elite midfielders can connect with this bloke. Yes, he takes a good contested mark and kicks goals, and that is his job. I get that. But I can't trust him to string 4 weeks in a row for a finals series where he won't be comprehensively beaten by the competition's best key backs. He'll be a top 5 in the coleman but imo he needs to get it, or go back, to what he knows. The team needs someone to kick to, and Ben is waiving his arms in the goal square. I've seen Ethan Reed take a couple of beautiful lead up marks, seen walter wrestle and be desperate to mark or not get outmarked by his opponent, im just not seeing it from king.

Gee whiz! That's an incredibly high bar to set if a top 5 finish in the Coleman isn't good enough in your eyes. We've only ever had one player finish in the top 5 of the Coleman (Tom Lynch finished 4th in 2016 with 66 goals and made the AA team that year) and now we've finally got another key forward who looks capable of the same feat and people are legitimately discussing whether he should be moved into the backline.

I understand the criticism of his forward craft as it can look lazy at times but that doesn't mean we should give up on this high output goalkicking key forward. Hardwick is big on players playing their roles within the team and perhaps King's role in this team is to focus mostly on kicking goals? Have a listen to Dimma's press conference following the Sydney game and you'll hear him talk about one of Walter's strengths being his ability to chase/tackle/compete and that defenders are already starting to work out ways to nullify his athleticism when he's stagnate in the forward line so he wants Jed on the move.

To me that sounds like he wants Walter to play more of a CHF role where he chases, pressures and tackles defenders on their way out of the defensive 50. It's already very obvious that Walter has an appetite for chasing + pressuring the opposition when they're in his vacinity and I think we all know that King isn't particularly strong in that area. Another point Dimma raised in the off season was that he wanted to focus on the 80% of what players do well instead of trying to relentlessly hounding them about the 20% of what they don't do well. That plays back into the idea of knowing and understanding your role within the team and I would suggest goalkicking falls into the category of what King does well whereas the chasing/pressuring/tackling would fall into the basket of the 20% he doesn't do so well.

So I think we'll continue to see King playing a deep FF role moving forward because it means he can focus more on his strengths as a forward and Walter will likely play higher up the ground in a CHF type role that pressures the opposition's half back line. Think of King almost like a striker in soccer that focuses almost exclusively on scoring goals because that's his strength and it's how he significantly contributes to the team. That's my read on it at the moment.

 

[sunsofanarchy]

Gee whiz! That's an incredibly high bar to set if a top 5 finish in the Coleman isn't good enough in your eyes. We've only ever had one player finish in the top 5 of the Coleman (Tom Lynch finished 4th in 2016 with 66 goals and made the AA team that year) and now we've finally got another key forward who looks capable of the same feat and people are legitimately discussing whether he should be moved into the backline.

I understand the criticism of his forward craft as it can look lazy at times but that doesn't mean we should give up on this high output goalkicking key forward. Hardwick is big on players playing their roles within the team and perhaps King's role in this team is to focus mostly on kicking goals? Have a listen to Dimma's press conference following the Sydney game and you'll hear him talk about one of Walter's strengths being his ability to chase/tackle/compete and that defenders are already starting to work out ways to nullify his athleticism when he's stagnate in the forward line so he wants Jed on the move.

To me that sounds like he wants Walter to play more of a CHF role where he chases, pressures and tackles defenders on their way out of the defensive 50. It's already very obvious that Walter has an appetite for chasing + pressuring the opposition when they're in his vacinity and I think we all know that King isn't particularly strong in that area. Another point Dimma raised in the off season was that he wanted to focus on the 80% of what players do well instead of trying to relentlessly hounding them about the 20% of what they don't do well. That plays back into the idea of knowing and understanding your role within the team and I would suggest goalkicking falls into the category of what King does well whereas the chasing/pressuring/tackling would fall into the basket of the 20% he doesn't do so well.

So I think we'll continue to see King playing a deep FF role moving forward because it means he can focus more on his strengths as a forward and Walter will likely play higher up the ground in a CHF type role that pressures the opposition's half back line. Think of King almost like a striker in soccer that focuses almost exclusively on scoring goals because that's his strength and it's how he significantly contributes to the team. That's my read on it at the moment.

My bar is high because of the talent we have on our list, the talent we have let go to keep King at full forward, and tbh, i want a premiership, not a finals appearance. He'll fill his boots against west coast without barrass, but if we're ever going to make the change, or at least try it, why not now? If anyone over 27 is now out, luko is back, i dont see why King's magnet is fixed. He is completely ineffective for 95% of a match, he doesn't impose himself on the game physically and he doesn't play team defence.

Your point of getting players to do what they're good at, playing fwd isn't it! Contested marking is, so why not play him back so he can take a squillion marks. Let's have a look at Walter as the main man, swing luko fwd, try jeffery out, try anything, but we're not getting enough juice out of King, so he needs to feel the squeeze

 

[Iva Bigun]

Sydney midfield applied better pressure, mostly offensively. They would put our mids under the pump. Warner was bursting out of stoppages, Rowbottom was clamping Rowell.

Heeney so clean 28&1 probably polls the 2 or 3 (Grundy), and Gulden 30 with some very elite kicks.

Jordon kept Noah on his lease and Noah tried to work harder on the outside but was pretty meaningless touches besides his nice goal.

Touk impact hasn’t been that great, maybe because we hold him to higher standards but he hasn’t been in our best much this year.

It’s probably says a lot more about Sydney how elite they can be on their day and would be pretty tough for anyone to beat them

What I find frustrating is as a collective our midfield is much more talented, it just didn’t work as hard IMO

 

[KaySwizzle]

It's a fair question, and points well made but King is not a natural forward, after 6 years he averages 7.5 touches a game. He plonks himself deep forward, doesn't chase, doesn't tackle, doesn't present to the ball carrier, he just waves his arms to say kick it deep and he tries to outmark his opponent, often out numbered 2-1. He has no connection with his midfield who he should have synergy with by now. But not one of our elite midfielders can connect with this bloke. Yes, he takes a good contested mark and kicks goals, and that is his job. I get that. But I can't trust him to string 4 weeks in a row for a finals series where he won't be comprehensively beaten by the competition's best key backs. He'll be a top 5 in the coleman but imo he needs to get it, or go back, to what he knows. The team needs someone to kick to, and Ben is waiving his arms in the goal square. I've seen Ethan Reed take a couple of beautiful lead up marks, seen walter wrestle and be desperate to mark or not get outmarked by his opponent, im just not seeing it from king.

I think it is less of a King problem (at least not entirely) and more of a forward line problem as a whole.

Watch a game live or watch the camera directly behind a kicker. Half the time there is nothing. No movement. Static.

That is King, but also everyone else.

King needs isolation and separation. He is not a contested marking beast and may never be—at least not so far after his knee.

But on the lead outstretched or diving he can beat most. But every other forward seems to group with him. So we need space for him. Rosas seems to understand when to crumb and when to break away and lead. Need more smalls and talls to do the same. Why all go up? And why always kick to his head rather than a lead.

Our entries are easy to shut down, if we even get it in properly… The Hawks game he was able to be hit on the lead. Makes a difference to our scoring and his form.

Completely agree. Midfield was the let down on this one. Defence is our most dependable line imo. Midfield are the most influential when they show up. A couple weeks this year they've just looked shades down from the week prior. Might be the adjustment phase but I'm not even speculating or trying to. Time will tell.

If our mids are off we have no real plan B. Forwards won’t dominate without mid dominance; and back will get found out big time, and don’t quite have the skills to consistently cut opponents up and move us forward without midfield dominance. Same is true for most teams, but it is what leads to inconsistency swings for us.

Gee whiz! That's an incredibly high bar to set if a top 5 finish in the Coleman isn't good enough in your eyes. We've only ever had one player finish in the top 5 of the Coleman (Tom Lynch finished 4th in 2016 with 66 goals and made the AA team that year) and now we've finally got another key forward who looks capable of the same feat and people are legitimately discussing whether he should be moved into the backline.

Agreed. Most key forwards do very little unless they have a day out. They jump at the ball and hope for the best. They are paid big money because 2+ almost guaranteed goals a game is worth that.

Even if moving him back was a valid option, we already have 4 tall defenders. Luko is only there for ball use, which swapping with king would likely nullify completely. And we can all agree that Kind needs to tackle more… so a backline move would be a terrible choice for that.

And no matter the hype on Walter, can’t let a 3 gamers take the best defenders. And Casboult can’t come back, nor can Day. That leaves King and his two goals a game.

 

[sunsofanarchy]

I think it is less of a King problem (at least not entirely) and more of a forward line problem as a whole.

Watch a game live or watch the camera directly behind a kicker. Half the time there is nothing. No movement. Static.

That is King, but also everyone else.

King needs isolation and separation. He is not a contested marking beast and may never be—at least not so far after his knee.

But on the lead outstretched or diving he can beat most. But every other forward seems to group with him. So we need space for him. Rosas seems to understand when to crumb and when to break away and lead. Need more smalls and talls to do the same. Why all go up? And why always kick to his head rather than a lead.

Our entries are easy to shut down, if we even get it in properly… The Hawks game he was able to be hit on the lead. Makes a difference to our scoring and his form.

If our mids are off we have no real plan B. Forwards won’t dominate without mid dominance; and back will get found out big time, and don’t quite have the skills to consistently cut opponents up and move us forward without midfield dominance. Same is true for most teams, but it is what leads to inconsistency swings for us.

Agreed. Most key forwards do very little unless they have a day out. They jump at the ball and hope for the best. They are paid big money because 2+ almost guaranteed goals a game is worth that.

Even if moving him back was a valid option, we already have 4 tall defenders. Luko is only there for ball use, which swapping with king would likely nullify completely. And we can all agree that Kind needs to tackle more… so a backline move would be a terrible choice for that.

And no matter the hype on Walter, can’t let a 3 gamers take the best defenders. And Casboult can’t come back, nor can Day. That leaves King and his two goals a game.

I was at ballarat and gather round

 

[KaySwizzle]

I was at ballarat and gather round

Sorry, it was more of a “if you watch the game” as in generally speaking for anyone who watches—not a dig saying you should watch live/on TV, which I guess did not come across well.

Probably should have said: When I watch the game live or on tv…

Was just my observation of our often static forward line. I feel it has been that way for a while, too, which makes it more frustrating.

 

[geoffneverflies]

Why did Classic Gold Coast re-emerge?

The Suns have to do a better job of getting the ball into the hands of Lukosius, Powell and Flanders when exiting defence. Granted Flanders had a tough game on Sunday, he is otherwise a very reliable if limited kicker of the football. Andrew, Collins, Ballard and Uwland have to limit themselves to handballs, the easiest kick options and high-arching dump kicks when they are under pressure that are harder to intercept mark. That takes a fair chunk of Sydney’s goals off the board and gives the midfield more chances to get into the game.

Some of this can be attributed to the 6 or 7 young players in the side that may not have the tank necessary at this point. But I think the height of the side is a major factor too. We have 4 talls behind the ball, 2 ruckmen and 2 more tall forwards. That’s eight players with less than stellar running ability that the rest of the side have to make up for. The Swans played 6 talls plus Blakey, if you leave out Blakey who runs like a gazelle all game, they didn’t suffer in the marking game at all.

https://eyesonthesuns.wordpress.com/2024/04/24/r6-review-why-did-classic-gold-coast-re-emerge/