Autopsy Round 6, 2024: St Kilda v Western Bulldogs

[Cairnsman]

Don't believe any of this talk about a "rebuild".

What we will be doing is what every club does every season - turns over a portion of their list in the search for players either through the draft or trade.

Might have a different focus because of a different coach but it isn't a "rebuild"

We have 22 players OOC at the end of the season, so like nearly every year we will turn over 6 to 10 players.

I've had a quick look through the OOC and I reckon 10 are certain to get a new offer, another 4 or 6 likely to get an offer (likes of Membrey, Ross, Webster, Paton, Hayes, Butler, Jones, McLennan, Hotton, Heath etc).

That leaves Campbell, Allison as the most likely automatic delistings along with whoever misses out in the above group.

Hardly a rebuild and certainly not a hard rebuild (unless we plan on trading the likes of Marshall, Steele or King for multiple first round picks or some mega trade)

It's definitely a hard rebuild but on King.

Talk of trading him has been as hysterical as the talk if turning in Lyon.

But I think unless things change soon I think it might be time to trial King up the ground, possibly Ruck or in defence. He looks anything but a deep key forward presently and after 75 games.

 

[MickG88]

It’s been the perfect storm of negative s to begin this season when you think about it .

Game style was built to defend without the ball then spread with it .
Yet 2 games at freaky narrow grounds
Injuries to the best thing that’s happened to this list in Henry and another runner Wood .
2 x 5 day breaks and interstate games all over the place .

Bleeding games into Bonner but now realizing he’s not a defender at all , and because Webster had a brain fade and a record suspension.

Suspensions to king ( prob cost us that game ) and others for SFA.

Injuries to midfield extractors in crouch , Clark and Dow . Therefore midfield is still barely functioning.

Mitch owens lacking confidence or the ability to kick for goal . Repeat King ,higgins. No butler.

I’m surprised we ve won a game to be honest . Reverse all of the above or even a few of them and we’d be way better off . If we can get to 5/5 after games to hawks , Roos then freo at Marvel we could turn things around .

Carlton was pretty s**t at the start of last year and they played finals and won 2 of them. Why not us?

 

[Saint Watto]

Why not us?

Yikes........I got a touch of PTSD reading that.

From memory....that was Ratt's catch cry in 2021 or 2022.

Why not us???

Because at that point....we weren't good enough.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

This round has been silly.
Lets include this game with the sillyness and move on.

 

[MickG88]

Clark is more likely to not make it than make it at this point. Injury hasn't helped but he's 25 and hasn't cemented a best 22 spot.

Dow is untested but looks exactly what's missing, Henry looked good though. Henry is an outside mid/wing or HF, not sure he helps our lack of inside midfielders.

So Liam Henry wasn't playing on ball before he got injured? I remember seeing him at quite a few centre bounces and stoppages.

 

[The Cobra]

No thanks, would rather try and lure Franklin. Franklin wants to coach and is the best forward of the last 20 years.

Mmm - magnificent athlete but doesn’t strike me as a deep thinker!

 

[MickG88]

Yikes........I got a touch of PTSD reading that.

From memory....that was Ratt's catch cry in 2021 or 2022.

Why not us???

Because at that point....we weren't good enough.

I'm trying to be positive about Thursdays performance, let me live in my delusional land.

 

[Cairnsman]

The difference is that Dow atleast has a set of wheels in traffic. He can break through a stoppage at speed. s**t disposal mind you

I'll be honest, I worry Dow isn't going to improve us, his reputation for shocking disposal was well known before we recruited him and my take on why we recruited him was because the option were extremely limited so he was the best of a poor bunch. The last thing any side needs is a turnover merchant in the midfield especially when the modern game is built on scoring from the turnover.

A puzzling recruit for mine.

 

[Cairnsman]

We seem to be trying to do tempo footy where we hold then surge but our holding is leaking so badly that we get put away before having to work twice as hard to drag our way back into it.

We should just tell them to go out and get off the chain for once.

What happened to this quick side we kept hearing about all pre season...we look like fast setting concrete the way we move the ball

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I'll be honest, I worry Dow isn't going to improve us, his reputation for shocking disposal was well known before we recruited him and my take on why we recruited him was because the option were extremely limited so he was the best of a poor bunch. The last thing any side needs is a turnover merchant in the midfield especially when the modern game is built on scoring from the turnover.

A puzzling recruit for mine.

He only has to take us through until Garcia can be a good ball winner with bad disposal.

 

[Brian Oblivion]

I'll be honest, I worry Dow isn't going to improve us, his reputation for shocking disposal was well known before we recruited him and my take on why we recruited him was because the option were extremely limited so he was the best of a poor bunch. The last thing any side needs is a turnover merchant in the midfield especially when the modern game is built on scoring from the turnover.

A puzzling recruit for mine.

His hand balling in traffic is elite - as long as he isn't kicking it, we are fine buddy.

 

[Sainter3and7]

If we had a half decent goal kicking coach and he was kicking drop punts through the middle when he has his opportunity his stats would look a whole let better

Remember last year when he asked Matthew Lloyd (an old coach of his) for some help regarding his goalkicking and the Club said they wouldn't let him do it? That worked well.

 

[DougalHoward]

Remember last year when he asked Matthew Lloyd (an old coach of his) for some help regarding his goalkicking and the Club said they wouldn't let him do it? That worked well.

That was 3 years ago

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Remember last year when he asked Matthew Lloyd (an old coach of his) for some help regarding his goalkicking and the Club said they wouldn't let him do it? That worked well.

Um....no...Matthew Lloyd went on TV and said he would do it , without anyone talking to anyone first.

 

[Sainter1873]

I'll be honest, I worry Dow isn't going to improve us, his reputation for shocking disposal was well known before we recruited him and my take on why we recruited him was because the option were extremely limited so he was the best of a poor bunch. The last thing any side needs is a turnover merchant in the midfield especially when the modern game is built on scoring from the turnover.

A puzzling recruit for mine.

What happened to this quick side we kept hearing about all pre season...we look like fast setting concrete the way we move the ball

Dow was recruited because he’s a quick midfielder. He and Henry were both recruited for their speed.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Dow was recruited because he’s a quick midfielder. He and Henry were both recruited for their speed.

A quick mid who can win clearances.

 

[Nutsngum]

Um....no...Matthew Lloyd went on TV and said he would do it , without anyone talking to anyone first.

Yes and then when asked if he would actually do it he back pedaled and said he needs a dedicated kicking coach not just a few sessions.

Everyone is cracking on about "myths" so heres one as well. King cleaned up his goal kicking substantially last year and was hitting 75% of his shots on goals. He obviously has been getting into his own head and letting old habits creep in but hes fixed it before and can regain that.

 

[Murraj1966]

If Dow can rove a Marshall tap and get the ball even tumbling forward we're winning compared to a massive chasm opening while another Dogs player walks free from the centre square.

 

[Teflon]

Ultimately that's what everyone is chasing.

Of course….but I think many have it in sone form ….we are bereft and seem to constantly go the one paced option…

 

[Teflon]

Do we really think forward, back, midfield coaches etc are really fully responsible for the preformance of each line?

I think its more about delegating the work between coaches. The actual system we play would be something that Ross has the ultimate say on but it would have been developed with input from all the assistant coaches.

I guess what I'm saying is if we replaced Harvey as the forward coach it might make zero difference at all.

Of course they’re part of a total system but reality is line coaches would have some influence over the operating performance and approach of the line under their control. Whether that’s in selection, set up etc ….they aren’t there just offering oranges at halftime..

 

[PandaG]

I'll be honest, I worry Dow isn't going to improve us, his reputation for shocking disposal was well known before we recruited him and my take on why we recruited him was because the option were extremely limited so he was the best of a poor bunch. The last thing any side needs is a turnover merchant in the midfield especially when the modern game is built on scoring from the turnover.

A puzzling recruit for mine.

He is better than you think

 

[beside the seaside]

Of course….but I think many have it in sone form ….we are bereft and seem to constantly go the one paced option…

I thought Windy really showed something in the Pies game. If he could consistently play at that level then we'd have one.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Yes and then when asked if he would actually do it he back pedaled and said he needs a dedicated kicking coach not just a few sessions.

Everyone is cracking on about "myths" so heres one as well. King cleaned up his goal kicking substantially last year and was hitting 75% of his shots on goals. He obviously has been getting into his own head and letting old habits creep in but hes fixed it before and can regain that.

Leading goal kicker in the AFL at the moment has kicked 25.7 (75% conversion rate). King has kicked 6.6 (50%)

King clearly needs to add the "Hogan Stutter" to help with his accuracy.

 

[gringo2011]

Carlton was pretty s**t at the start of last year and they played finals and won 2 of them. Why not us?

Honestly the best thing for us is getting more injuries and play youth. Looking at the Dogs, they have better youth and better seniors. Sanders, JUH, Darcy are elite young talent and guys like Naughton, Weightman, Khamis etc are all high performing mid career talent and then a layer of elite players like Bont, English, Macrae, Treloar, Smith etc.

Their list is a top 4 list with heaps coming through for the future. They develop and draft well. They also seem to challenge then bust the next year to get high picks.

We are nowhere near them. We look like Essendon on paper but they are probably 2 years ahead because they were doing bulk youth a couple of years ahead of us. They look like they've chased mature talent to play finals to save face. We can't afford that this time.

We need to draft hard and play kids. I'd play as much youth as possible this year and not chase finals. If we made it we'd just get knocked out anyway. This draft has a heap of elite looking mids and just what we need. It would be a disaster not to get one.

 

[Desperate saint]

I would hope we're not playing a kid as a forward who has a horrible set shot kicking action and gets according results, simply because he wants to be a forward!

If the blokes alongside him were reliable shots, it would be ok. But Higgins/King/Owens together? My god.

It was a bit like when we had Geary, Dunstan and Ross in the team. One, maybe two of them was somewhat sustainable. But the three together! It was butcher's convention.

yep our set shot kicking is the stuff of nighmares of all the issues we have that is no 1