Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 6 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Mofra]

Yes, it could have been a reach but at this stage it looks like it was a shallow draft. Weddle or Darcy Jones would have been great but every club can shed tears in the "if only we'd drafted [such-and-such]" game. And it’s still early days to say Buss won’t become a good footballer. Tall defenders take time. Especially if they start their first season recovering from shoulder surgery.

We've had quite a few years where our draft was hollowed out for FS/NGA bid matching & picking up trades in exchange for a 2nd/3rd rounder. Some good trades, some not so good. So to have picks 13, 24 and 39 in 2022 looked juicy at the time. However none of them played in 2023 - partly due to injuries - and so far only Gallagher has debuted in 2023. Clarke might get there but he's not coming along as fast as I'd have hoped for a pick 24.

What has made that off-season more palatable was picking up Liam Jones and then JOD early into the 2023 season. Both of them free hits.

IIRC we had Buss, Ed Allen and Weddle grouped as possibilities at that pick.

 

[Dogs Rule]

He'll want to return home to Geelong

Yep, that pull to Geelong despite being three and a half hours from Tongala is incredibly strong.

I bet they're already earmarking er, um, 'investments' for him as we speak.

 

[GetDimmaBack]

Yep, that pull to Geelong despite being three and a half hours from Tongala is incredibly strong.

I bet they're already earmarking er, um, 'investments' for him as we speak.

C'mon man, Tongala is just an outer suburb of Geelong, really...

 

[Mojorisin]

Out of need, there’s nobody else who’s able to play it at the moment. Gardner’s been in the ruck for the same reason.

Yes but that would indicate Buss is clearly ahead for a defencive spot if one opened up.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Yes but that would indicate Buss is clearly ahead for a defencive spot if one opened up.

Not really, just that Gardner's already rucked at points in his footy career early days with Dogs and at Geelong and Buss hasn't.

 

[LittleG]

Could we target a Lions midfielder? Lots of choices.

 

[fred cook]

Could we target a Lions midfielder? Lots of choices.

Mclugge

On CPH2305 using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Mojorisin]

Mclugge

On CPH2305 using BigFooty.com mobile app

We tried Mccluggage is staying at the lions.

 

[Bulldog Joe]

I can see why Pies are desperate for Smith. Their midfield has dropped off and Mitchell cant play a full game.

I think you could leave that at Mitchell can't play.

Collingwood having trouble because Sidebottom is done also and Pendles is just getting by.

 

[BrisDog]

Personally, when I turned 17 I could not wait to get out of my home town and explore the world. No everyone in this world is a pussy.

 

[goodcop badcop]

Clarke was always going to take time, I flagged this before we drafted him. His fitness levels weren't really close to AFL standard and the injury set back early on no doubt set him back further. We're going to have to be patient.

 

[Mofra]

C'mon man, Tongala is just an outer suburb of Geelong, really...

Busslinger being from West West Geelong is a real concern

 

[BLACAE]

Watching NM and keeping an eye on Bigoa Nyuon. He reminds me of Dustin Fletcher

Dustin Fletcher

Age

49

Ht

198cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.0

4star

K

12.3

5star

HB

3.7

3star

M

4.7

4star

T

1.2

3star

MG

301.6

4star

No current season stats available

D

14.2

4star

K

11.4

4star

HB

2.8

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.4

4star

. He's a very raw version, but he has that reach and speed.

On SM-G990E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[threenewpadlocks]

Watching NM and keeping an eye on Bigoa Nyuon. He reminds me of Dustin Fletcher. He's a very raw version, but he has that reach and speed.

On SM-G990E using BigFooty.com mobile app

Richmond moved on from him despite their need for key defenders as it stands.

 

[VitalDread]

Wouldn't be shocked if we are talking to cam zurhaar

 

[DueWest]

Wouldn't be shocked if we are talking to cam zurhaar

I rate him but do we need that type of player ?

 

[TiAn_]

Wouldn't be shocked if we are talking to cam zurhaar

Not sure what we need is a Jake Stringer from Wish.

 

[BLACAE]

Zurhaar would be a great option for us. He's a bull inside and can hit the scoreboard. Tell me a player like him wouldn't have helped tonight.

Tonight was absolute kindergarten s**t and our *ing zone got picked apart again and again. Dale was good. Treloar was selfish when in the 50. Bontempelli needs to learn how to *ing kick straight, that shot was harder to miss. Naughton got spanked, as did Lobb and CD was terrible.

Just a poor showing all round.

On SM-G990E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Philthy1]

Let Smith go. Trade Lobb, Jack Mac, Caleb and see what we get for them.

Full draft hand to bring in 5-6 quality players to make up for only JUH and Darcy two years in a row. We must do this given the age of Treloar, Libba, Jones and Tasmania coming.

Reset / mini re-build like end 2017. Go again in two years time, possibly with a new coach.

 

[VogonProsthetnic]

Zurhaar would be a great option for us. He's a bull inside and can hit the scoreboard. Tell me a player like him wouldn't have helped tonight.

Tonight was absolute kindergarten s**t and our *ing zone got picked apart again and again. Dale was good. Treloar was selfish when in the 50. Bontempelli needs to learn how to *ing kick straight, that shot was harder to miss. Naughton got spanked, as did Lobb and CD was terrible.

Just a poor showing all round.

On SM-G990E using BigFooty.com mobile app

Mid sized forward is a need.

Of you’d need to move Naughton back, which won’t happen with this coach.

 

[dergert]

Buss was average again today. Head isn't in it. Take what you can get and chalk it up as a L

 

[goodcop badcop]

Is anyone a bit concerned with some of our list management decisions over the past few years?

• Trading two 2nd rounders for Lobb when we had Darcy waiting in the wings. It also practically made Bruce redundant
• The Dunkley trade and lowish return for him (although that may have been more to do with Brisbane then us, but we had the opportunity to trade him earlier at the same time)
• The unnecessary signings of some of our fringe types for more then a year (Gardner,Baker,Poulter,Scott)
• Slow to cut some of our spuds
• Continuing to pick players from Footscray and not working out (McComb, Poulter etc.)
• Trading 3 first rounders to pick Sanders (time will tell on this and it also meant we secured Croft for sure with this trade and maybe at a lower price possibly)

I'm a little bit concerned. I think we've been far too slow to see where the games been trending, towards the faster, smaller types. Geelong and GWS for example were in a similar position to us and have been much quicker to react then us. We at least have tried to cover it a little bit in the last few drafts, but we're still a fair way behind. We put too much priority on the Lobb trade when I think we had other areas of need. Trading 3 first rounders for Sanders wasn't something I would have done, but I think he will be a good player all the same.

The positive for us is they have built a very good list of future talls to build around. And Liam Jones

19

Liam Jones

Age

33

Ht

199cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.4

2star

K

6.5

3star

HB

2.9

3star

M

4.3

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

134.5

2star

D

7.6

2star

K

6.1

3star

HB

1.4

1star

M

4.1

4star

T

1.4

2star

MG

116.3

2star

D

9.4

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

2.0

2star

M

4.0

4star

T

2.2

4star

is probably the best recruit we've had since I have no idea when, I just wish he was 25. O'Donnell too will be a great asset that we got for free.

So what does everyone think? Have they done a good job? Should they be doing better? Are you concerned or is the issue with the coach?

 

[adogsfan5]

Is anyone a bit concerned with some of our list management decisions over the past few years?

• Trading two 2nd rounders for Lobb when we had Darcy waiting in the wings. It also practically made Bruce redundant
• The Dunkley trade and lowish return for him (although that may have been more to do with Brisbane then us, but we had the opportunity to trade him earlier at the same time)
• The unnecessary signings of some of our fringe types for more then a year (Gardner,Baker,Poulter,Scott)
• Slow to cut some of our spuds
• Continuing to pick players from Footscray and not working out (McComb, Poulter etc.)
• Trading 3 first rounders to pick Sanders (time will tell on this and it also meant we secured Croft for sure with this trade and maybe at a lower price possibly)

I'm a little bit concerned. I think we've been far too slow to see where the games been trending, towards the faster, smaller types. Geelong and GWS for example were in a similar position to us and have been much quicker to react then us. We at least have tried to cover it a little bit in the last few drafts, but we're still a fair way behind. We put too much priority on the Lobb trade when I think we had other areas of need. Trading 3 first rounders for Sanders wasn't something I would have done, but I think he will be a good player all the same.

The positive for us is they have built a very good list of future talls to build around. And Liam Jones is probably the best recruit we've had since I have no idea when, I just wish he was 25. O'Donnell too will be a great asset that we got for free.

So what does everyone think? Have they done a good job? Should they be doing better? Are you concerned or is the issue with the coach?

Not concerned. I think the Footscray pick ups have annoyed me the most!
Couldn’t do much about Dunkley and who could possibly know that Darcy would be this good so quickly (re Lobb).

The drafting of Jamarra (who is gonna be a star), plus Darcy has probably hurt our draft hand but it’s on us now to bring pace in and re-jigg our midfield.

 

[dogwatch]

Is anyone a bit concerned with some of our list management decisions over the past few years?

• Trading two 2nd rounders for Lobb when we had Darcy waiting in the wings. It also practically made Bruce redundant
• The Dunkley trade and lowish return for him (although that may have been more to do with Brisbane then us, but we had the opportunity to trade him earlier at the same time)
• The unnecessary signings of some of our fringe types for more then a year (Gardner,Baker,Poulter,Scott)
• Slow to cut some of our spuds
• Continuing to pick players from Footscray and not working out (McComb, Poulter etc.)
• Trading 3 first rounders to pick Sanders (time will tell on this and it also meant we secured Croft for sure with this trade and maybe at a lower price possibly)

I'm a little bit concerned. I think we've been far too slow to see where the games been trending, towards the faster, smaller types. Geelong and GWS for example were in a similar position to us and have been much quicker to react then us. We at least have tried to cover it a little bit in the last few drafts, but we're still a fair way behind. We put too much priority on the Lobb trade when I think we had other areas of need. Trading 3 first rounders for Sanders wasn't something I would have done, but I think he will be a good player all the same.

The positive for us is they have built a very good list of future talls to build around. And Liam Jones is probably the best recruit we've had since I have no idea when, I just wish he was 25. O'Donnell too will be a great asset that we got for free.

So what does everyone think? Have they done a good job? Should they be doing better? Are you concerned or is the issue with the coach?

Timely post. I was going to post something similar.

Add to your bullets the signing of Daniel (2026), Dale (2027) and Macrae (2027) for long term contracts. Dale is now looking OK again (was shaky for a few weeks) but Macrae and Daniel are past their best. Macrae is probably still earning his keep depending on how much we're paying him. Not sure how long he can sustain it though, as his decline seems sustained.
Daniel is looking more and more a long-term list liability as this season progresses.

At the time we signed these players they were in good form and probably close to top 5 in the B&F. So it seemed like good sense back then and hardly anybody raised an eyebrow. Not so now.

Williams is another that I'm a bit concerned about. His recent contract renewal is also until 2027. He's best 22 but he'd be in the bottom half of that 22. Will he still be top 22 in the fourth year of that contract?

Gardner and Harmes with contracts through to the end of 2026 concern me.

Something is not quite right here. There needs to be a good working rapport and exchange of information between the coaches, strategists and the list management team but it feels like they are on different pages. I just hope it's more an accident than a structural defect or a debilitating rift between strong personalities.

Whatever it is, it doesn't look good and we don't seem to be getting the best outcomes.

Here's the current list sorted by Contract End Year (CEY). The final column shows their age in October of their final contract year:

 

[Oliver G]

Timely post. I was going to post something similar.

Add to your bullets the signing of Daniel (2026), Dale (2027) and Macrae (2027) for long term contracts. Dale is now looking OK again (was shaky for a few weeks) but Macrae and Daniel are past their best. Macrae is probably still earning his keep depending on how much we're paying him. Not sure how long he can sustain it though, as his decline seems sustained.
Daniel is looking more and more a long-term list liability as this season progresses.

At the time we signed these players they were in good form and probably close to top 5 in the B&F. So it seemed like good sense back then and hardly anybody raised an eyebrow. Not so now.

Williams is another that I'm a bit concerned about. His recent contract renewal is also until 2027. He's best 22 but he'd be in the bottom half of that 22. Will he still be top 22 in the fourth year of that contract?

Gardner and Harmes with contracts through to the end of 2026 concern me.

Something is not quite right here. There needs to be a good working rapport and exchange of information between the coaches, strategists and the list management team but it feels like they are on different pages. I just hope it's more an accident than a structural defect or a debilitating rift between strong personalities.

Whatever it is, it doesn't look good and we don't seem to be getting the best outcomes.

Here's the current list sorted by Contract End Year (CEY). The final column shows their age in October of their final contract year:

View attachment 1973128

Lobb, Harmes and Gardner are the deals I can't get over, 3 years was ludicrous, 2 at most.

Dale, Daniel and Macrae's deals made sense at the time so can't really complain. Dale and Macrae have at least shown that they are willing to accept the criticism and respond. Dale with his ball movement and efficiency and Macrae with his defensive pressure.

Dale has topped the player ratings in the last two matches, while Macrae has been ranked 1st in tackles and pressure points over the same period.

Williams, I would've preferred 3 but 4 is acceptable given that he can play both wing and defense.

Daniel is the big worry out of that lot though, showed next to nothing before getting dropped and hardly excelled tonight. I'd wager he is the most likely to leave.