Autopsy This is going to be painful. The Dogs V Bombers debacle thread.

[H Dolphin]

As much as I can't stand Cornes he's nailed it in his latest video on the AFL website.

Said of Beveridge's presser that 'he couldn't understand what he was saying' and that his selection BS and coaching was 'ruining careers' and that a team that on paper should be winning that match by 10 goals instead lost it by 5 goals.

Spot on. Anyone that thinks it's all going OK and that Beveridge isn't destroying this club now is living in a fools paradise.

On my way to the fools' paradise, dropped in to say that I don't think Beveridge is destroying the club. Frankly, it appears to be more lack of player effort than anything else.

 

[Next Waiting]

Kind of agree but that does not mean we have to stick with Beveridge. He’s clearly gotten stale. It happens. Time to move on and make some proper list changes also.

We can't make list changes till the end of the year. I don't think we punt Bevo midseason. I think we let him go full Bevo and see what rabbit he pulls out of the hat.

Naughton as an onballer. It's so farking crazy it might work..or not. That's the level of crazy we need in season to at least make it interesting ... for me...which is the important bit.

 

[JTCWBFC]

We can't make list changes till the end of the year. I don't think we punt Bevo midseason. I think we let him go full Bevo and see what rabbit he pulls out of the hat.

Naughton as an onballer. It's so farking crazy it might work..or not. That's the level of crazy we need in season to at least make it interesting ... for me...which is the important bit.

There’s risk in not moving him on. Player relationships etc

 

[wayniac]

Round 3 last year we came into the game against Brisbane after two horrible losses against Melbourne and St. Kilda.

We won that game. In the team that day were 3 delisted players, McComb, Bruce and Crozier. The rest of the team are still on our list but Bevo has mucked around with selection too much.

Missing against Essendon:

Garcia
Keath
Scott
Jones
Lobb
Daniel

So nine players different from last year and the result is horrible.

Nevertheless, Brisbane are crap too this year.

Form fluctuates but we do need to back our top guys in.

 

[Next Waiting]

There’s risk in not moving him on. Player relationships etc

I struggle to see what impact a new coach (this season) will have other than a dead cat bounce. It's reality time. We do not have the playing personnel and our biggest area of deficiency is midfield (including ruck). This is not an easy path to navigate given how critical the midfield is to team success.

We've been beaten there 2 weeks in a row, 3 out of 5 if you include Melbourne. Bevo doesn't have many defenders, and I'm not even sure I'm one of them, but contrary to popular opinion, I don't think he's at all deluded about what he's got to work with and what the possibilities are.

It's grim and it'll be no different for an incoming coach parachuted in to somehow retrieve the situation and turn us into a flag threatening outfit.

Given the ease with which more than a few of these players turn their toes up (with a few exceptions), it must be very difficult to have a relationship with some of them.

 

[maddog37]

I struggle to see what impact a new coach (this season) will have other than a dead cat bounce. It's reality time. We do not have the playing personnel and our biggest area of deficiency is midfield (including ruck). This is not an easy path to navigate given how critical the midfield is to team success.

We've been beaten there 2 weeks in a row, 3 out of 5 if you include Melbourne. Bevo doesn't have many defenders, and I'm not even sure I'm one of them, but contrary to popular opinion, I don't think he's at all deluded about what he's got to work with and what the possibilities are.

It's grim and it'll be no different for an incoming coach parachuted in to somehow retrieve the situation and turn us into a flag threatening outfit.

Given the ease with which more than a few of these players turn their toes up (with a few exceptions), it must be very difficult to have a relationship with some of them.

So that leaves changing players and keeping the coach as the only option??

 

[Next Waiting]

So that leaves changing players and keeping the coach as the only option??

No. It means we basically don't have any options that will make much difference this season.

We could sack the coach mid season. Will it make any discernible difference this year? F all I would suggest

 

[olimauldon]

No. It means we basically don't have any options that will make much difference this season.

We could sack the coach mid season. Will it make any discernible difference this year? F all I would suggest

I believe it leaves us with more of a chance of change than if we were to keep Bevo. Honestly cant see the team flicking a switch and improving at this point while he's still in charge. Flogging a dead horse with Bevo. Sacking him mid season might not change much, but it also potentially could change something you never know. However keeping the coach isn't gonna change anything

 

[Next Waiting]

I believe it leaves us with more of a chance of change than if we were to keep Bevo. Honestly cant see the team flicking a switch and improving at this point while he's still in charge. Flogging a dead horse with Bevo. Sacking him mid season might not change much, but it also potentially could change something you never know. However keeping the coach isn't gonna change anything

Thing is, if they were going to do it, they should have done it at the end of last year.

Still, getting rid of Bailey Smith was a higher priority and they didn't do that either. Coulda got chips and dip for him back then, now just chips.

 

[Some Idiot]

Watching Essendon walk the ball out of the center in the last quarter burst just gave me flashbacks to the 2021 grand final again. Sheesh!

 

[Hobdog]

The thing about the 'versatility' mantra is that it rarely gets used in the course of a game.

Sure, a player like Bailey Williams might play games on a wing, rather than as a defender but Beveridge rarely responds to how a game is playing out tactically by making posisitional changes and using this so called versatility.

Some might argue that the game is now so structured that you can't throw a defender forward or vice versa but the alternative is that a game which we were just hanging on to, like Essendon on Friday, just continues to get taken away from us in the second half.

Yeah great analysis there


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Next Waiting]

In 2016, there were 5 players in the team who you absolutely knew would not fold when things got tough. Clay Smith

Clay Smith

Age

30

Ht

182cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.8

4star

K

7.9

3star

HB

5.9

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

4.8

5star

G

0.8

4star

No current season stats available

D

10.6

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

3.2

5star

G

0.8

4star

, Liam Picken

Liam Picken

Age

37

Ht

184cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.0

4star

K

8.9

3star

HB

9.1

5star

M

3.3

3star

T

4.6

5star

G

0.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

13.6

4star

K

4.6

2star

HB

9.0

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

5.6

5star

G

0.2

3star

, Dale Morris, Bont and Libba. You could possibly even add Moyd and Biggsy to that list and possibly also Macrae and Dunkley with an honourable mention to Roughie. The others followed

There was a hard edge on every line.

Today's team? We still have Bont and Libba ... Macrae. I'd credit West with that sort of resolve (if not the same talent) and probably Naughts and VDM have that competitiveness.

Pace and skill aside, we are generally weak between the ears and in the ticker. How much of that can be sheeted home to Bevo can only be guessed at. List management and draft selection is not his responsibility alone.

Sure, the argument can be mounted that the coach's job is to get the best out his players ..... but what if this is in fact their best. This is what they are capable of .... they are at their ceilings. Think about that for a moment

 

[Dogs Rule]

On my way to the fools' paradise, dropped in to say that I don't think Beveridge is destroying the club. Frankly, it appears to be more lack of player effort than anything else.

So it's player effort? So, he's lost the players then?

 

[wayniac]

So it's player effort? So, he's lost the players then?

"Lost the players" is a convenient cop-out for our snowflake players.

Plenty of team sports at lower levels don't have or need coaches. We're in the ridiculous world now where individuals don't take responsibility for their performance and we are conned into believing a change of coach will transform a whole team.

We can question tactics, however, when I see a sub like Dale fail to chase or put his body into the contest, I have no truck with it being the coaches fault.

In the pre full-time professional rugby league, players played for winning or losing money. That was a proper incentive to pull their finger out every game. The prospect of losing 60% of a days pay certainly made them try.

 

[Dogs Rule]

"Lost the players" is a convenient cop-out for our snowflake players.

Plenty of team sports at lower levels don't have or need coaches. We're in the ridiculous world now where individuals don't take responsibility for their performance and we are conned into believing a change of coach will transform a whole team.

We can question tactics, however, when I see a sub like Dale fail to chase or put his body into the contest, I have no truck with it being the coaches fault.

In the pre full-time professional rugby league, players played for winning or losing money. That was a proper incentive to pull their finger out every game. The prospect of losing 60% of a days pay certainly made them try.

Understand where you're coming from and personally speaking, I think it's both. I think he's lost the players and the players are just not putting in, taking short cuts, half hearted efforts and so on. So at the end of the year the players should cop it.

 

[Sentinel]

"Lost the players" is a convenient cop-out for our snowflake players.

Plenty of team sports at lower levels don't have or need coaches. We're in the ridiculous world now where individuals don't take responsibility for their performance and we are conned into believing a change of coach will transform a whole team.

We can question tactics, however, when I see a sub like Dale fail to chase or put his body into the contest, I have no truck with it being the coaches fault.

In the pre full-time professional rugby league, players played for winning or losing money. That was a proper incentive to pull their finger out every game. The prospect of losing 60% of a days pay certainly made them try.

The players definitely need to shoulder some responsibility but why is our team full of players doing this and it's not evident in certain other teams? They all came through the same draft system, is it just a coincidence?

A big part of the coach's responsibility is motivating his players and getting the best out of them - Bevo was outstanding at that in 2015/16.

 

[Shacf501]

I'd love to see Jamara kick the goal before being a smart arse to his direct opponent. Yes you kicked 3 mate but you could have kicked 5 or six. You look like a goose when you mouth off and them miss from 30 meters out.

love you... but you're not good enough yet to be too arrogant!

 

[wayniac]

The players definitely need to shoulder some responsibility but why is our team full of players doing this and it's not evident in certain other teams? They all came through the same draft system, is it just a coincidence?

A big part of the coach's responsibility is motivating his players and getting the best out of them - Bevo was outstanding at that in 2015/16.

Bont, Libba, L. Jones are all putting in. We have a gutless rabble of private schoolboys. I'll add Westy, JUH and Naughts to the younger coterie who are putting in. The rest? Meh. Good old fashioned spray is now not de rigueur. Needs a 2IC drill sergeant ala "Officer and a Gentleman". "Are you a steer or a xxxxxx?" If Libba Jnr was not performing I bet Libba Snr would kick his arse at dinner time. Maybe we have a coterie of orphans?

 

[worbod]

Our chances of finishing just outside the top four again are looking shaky.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Our chances of finishing just outside the top four again are looking shaky.

Our chances of finishing in the top four outside the eight are shaky.

 

[maddog37]

Our chances of finishing in the top four outside the eight are shaky.

the chances of us finishing just outside the bottom four just outside the top eight are looking strong tho.

 

[Spiritof82]

I'd love to see Jamara kick the goal before being a smart arse to his direct opponent. Yes you kicked 3 mate but you could have kicked 5 or six. You look like a goose when you mouth off and them miss from 30 meters out.

love you... but you're not good enough yet to be too arrogant!

He also needs to learn to put some effort in when the opposition has the ball, a number of occasions in the first quarter when his direct opponent got the ball he didn't chase or just jogged slowly after him letting Essendon take the ball easily out of our forward line

 

[geoffjennings79]

Not a single question in the post match to Beveridge about the total ineffectiveness of English. Yet it was one of the more blatant stand outs of the match.

 

[H Dolphin]

So it's player effort? So, he's lost the players then?

Perhaps, or it's between some of the players' ears, lack of cohesion in the playing group, lack of discipline, too comfortable an environment, just don't work hard enough. It seemed to me that there was a lac of effort on Friday night Saturday night and I recall that Melbourne players worked harder than ours.

 

[chop0205]

Not a single question in the post match to Beveridge about the total ineffectiveness of English. Yet it was one of the more blatant stand outs of the match.

Bit of an elephant in the room I reckon. Malthouse was scathing of English on 774