Opinion St Kilda reserves. Should we give Moorabbin a purpose?

[Nutsngum]

Lately ive been paying a lot more attention to Sandringham, mostly because of this board, in order to see how our young kids are doing.

Thankfully the deal with Sandringham seems to be working really well and we've already seen some youth, such as Webster, come into the side with good skills and effort on their part.

However you really only have to look at Geelong, in particular but also Essendon and Collingwood, who fields their own reserves team to see the benefit of your own one seems to bring.

My big question is, are we missing out here by not fielding our own reserves and pumping even more games into our listed kids who miss out at Sandringham?

The fact is, we have an entire stadium in Moorabbin being unused for actual football and would be a fantastic way to bring the membership even closer by having a second team to support who are still Saints. Then we have the psychological aspect of playing for St Kilda. You aren't playing for the Zebras or any other team, you're playing for St Kilda in your Saints colours with your Saints teammates. The club talks a lot about loyalty and unity, well I think this would be the best way to develop our youth and really push a St Kilda spirit through them. We could be the next Geelong and just push out strong lists for 10 years plus on the backs of our own development.

Short of possible financial difficulties this may have I really cannot see any kind of negative aspect.

Any thoughts?

 

[Strahany]

The only real issue I see is with what you've already mentioned; financing such a venture.

If such a thing would be easily affordable or, at least, the spending will be justified by the benefits given to our players, then I can't see a reason why we shouldn't.

After all, we've practically got the same thing going on at Sandringham at the moment. So big is St Kilda's control, that it's pretty safe to say there wouldn't be any tears shed by the Sandy players if we separated.

 

[Barrels]

HUGE fan of the idea

As Stahany said, the only issue is the cash. I don't think Sandy would miss us all that much, and what a fantastic 'local derby!'

 

[stkildathunda]

Im still to be convinced going standalone is worth all that money. Not mention extra money it will cost to get Moorabbin upto scratch to be able play VFL games on there. You still need to recruit VFL players to top up your list. You wouldnt get the Cockies/Shepheards/Cooks/Dowlers into a standalone AFL club, and dont underestimate the importance of having those mature players around the young players.

As Strahany said, we basically have same thing happening right now with the alignmeent, no AFL player has played single game in Dev Squad this year, not one. We play the same gameplan as Saints. The cost is currently shared between two clubs, off top my head its $500-$700K you require to go standalone.

TBBO is getting redeveloped, so the size of oval isnt going to be issue. The grround is going be resurfaced and it will be better then any VFL ground, including Moorabbin.

 

[Squizz]

February:

St Kilda is the only AFL club with a VFL affiliate that is yet to decide whether it wants to field a stand-alone VFL team from next season.

There could be as many as 17 clubs in the VFL from 2014, up from 14 this season. The Western Bulldogs and Richmond have confirmed they will field stand-alone teams next year.

Saints football manager Greg Hutchison confirmed on Saturday that plans for a stand-alone team were still unclear, but it is believed the Saints are keen on fielding their own VFL team.

It may, however, depend on whether a proposed redevelopment of Moorabbin goes ahead. The development would require funding from the state government.

The Saints confirmed at the end of last year that they were looking to redevelop Moorabbin.

They are currently aligned to Sandringham, which is reliant on funding from the Saints.

​

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/watters-out-to-blood-young-players-rather-than-win-cup-20130216-2ek3u.html#ixzz2L7ED7OOA​

Ryan said Sandringham's preference was to stay with St Kilda, believing the model was good for both clubs.
He said the Saints' young players received an excellent grounding at Sandy.
"We're very comfortable being with St Kilda Football Club,'' Ryan said.
"We've had five years with them and I'm confident we'll extend that alignment. We've had a number of discussions and they've been both fruitful and respectful. There is no demand on either of us to make a hasty decision.''
But Ryan said the Zebras would push on if the alignment ended.
"Don't for one minute think our future depends on St Kilda. That couldn't be further from the truth,'' he said.
"Financially, Sandringham is a very strong club. We're confident we can stand alone and be successful in our own right.
"For the last 10 years we've put ourselves in a financial position where we don't rely on an AFL club.''

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/loc...-gerry-ryan-says/story-fn53khk2-1226581064101

I can only see the alignment as win win at the moment.
From a StKilda perspective.

Negatives.
Possible conflict between game plan Saints and Sandringham. Conflict of interest between developing Saints players and playing the best Sandy team. Nothing that can't be worked out between amicable people who are prepared for a bit of give and take.

Positives.
Stand alone club will cost more. The administration of Sandringham, and the running of games etc is literally one thing that StKilda dont have to worry about staffing and paying for.
A stand alone club would need to recruit extra players, maintain extra facilities, have more staff.
It would not generate extra money. It would cost more.
StKilda's financial status would almost certainly mean that the money would need to come out of the football department spending.
So we would be robbing Peter to pay Paul.

I just dont think its broken enough to justify robbing Peter.

Neither ground (Seaford or Moorabbin) is currently suitable for VFL matches - for different reasons.

Running around finding decent players to make up the numbers seems - to me - a fair distraction (plus we have to pay them - noting our finances aren't that hot).

Whilst I'm sure the Saints would love full control (to ensure similar game plans and players playing in certain roles), and the ability to play on a bigger ground, I would have thought the alignment was worth pursuing. We have staff on both payrolls, Sandy players have trained with the Saints during pre-season, and the location itself is a natural Saints supporter base. The Zebs look like having a strong year, which will create a bit of excitement and the opportunity for younger players to play finals.

Sandy now play the Saints gameplan so that's not really an issue.

No interstate club is standalone, hell all their players are spread all over competition. Yet they seem to perform quite well.

 

[Nutsngum]

Does the VFl run at a loss and only propped up by AFL investment? Because if there is a profit to be had I cant see why St Kilda cant find a way to make a profit from running a VFL team as long as enough effort is put into it. I could be very wrong though.

 

[Sunshine Saint]

Does the VFl run at a loss and only propped up by AFL investment? Because if there is a profit to be had I cant see why St Kilda cant find a way to make a profit from running a VFL team as long as enough effort is put into it. I could be very wrong though.

VFL teams are a sinkhole, in which money would disappear. If you are Collingwood, Essendon etc you can afford this and it probably makes more sense. For us, if we were to stand alone, that surely would mean less for our senior football department.

And it would also take additional administrative time and resources to run a separate club in the VFL. Focus on what we should be doing and do this well. Outsource the rest and use that to our best advantage.

Done properly with goodwill on all sides, which does appear to be the case with Watters and Sandringham, as certainly wasn't the case with Lyin, it can work. I also love the link with Sandringham and Trevor Barker and think that is worth keeping just for that.

 

[Nutsngum]

I agree that Sandringham is a definite good thing. Still cant help but feel that following Geelong's model is really a better way to go despite the money cost.

If it helps us strive for a premiership, isnt that a worthy spenditure?

 

[Q TRAIN]

Why the heck would we give Moorabbin a Porpoise??

I know the centre square used to be pretty wet, but not that wet.

Oh!!!! you said 'purpose'. Now it makes sense

 

[70s sainter]

Im still to be convinced going standalone is worth all that money. Not mention extra money it will cost to get Moorabbin upto scratch to be able play VFL games on there. You still need to recruit VFL players to top up your list. You wouldnt get the Cockies/Shepheards/Cooks/Dowlers into a standalone AFL club, and dont underestimate the importance of having those mature players around the young players.

As Strahany said, we basically have same thing happening right now with the alignmeent, no AFL player has played single game in Dev Squad this year, not one. We play the same gameplan as Saints. The cost is currently shared between two clubs, off top my head its $500-$700K you require to go standalone.

TBBO is getting redeveloped, so the size of oval isnt going to be issue. The grround is going be resurfaced and it will be better then any VFL ground, including Moorabbin.

Gday thunda,
Thanx for your constant updates on Sandy and the saint seconds--very handy.
Re the redevelopment at sandy. Is the ground just getting resurfaced, or is the size being increased as well as i heard the playing area is pretty small.
Cheers.

Has anyone got any news on the upgrades at moorrabbin as well?

 

[stkildathunda]

Gday thunda,
Thanx for your constant updates on Sandy and the saint seconds--very handy.
Re the redevelopment at sandy. Is the ground just getting resurfaced, or is the size being increased as well as i heard the playing area is pretty small.
Cheers.

Has anyone got any news on the upgrades at moorrabbin as well?

No worries mate. Resurfacing is going ahead and if all goes to plan playing surface size will also be increased at end year.

 

[stkildathunda]

This will give indication on what ground be like after all works. Note it's article from last year

http://truezebras.net/2012/11/20/trevor-barker-beach-oval-extension-close-to-reality/

 

[Persevering Saint]

Just on the whole thing of interstate teams. Here's an article about Adelaide trying to get a dedicated 2nds team. http://is.gd/1JXQF5