News Gabba Upgrade & Olympics News

[Grasshopper17]

Apparently that would be at the SCG and next door's Showring Oval (already being upgraded to a ~10k venue). Around Easter to somewhat rectify how long the Giants are always away from NSW at this time of the year.


Think it just means Easter school holidays, like what the current Gather Round is.

I don't think the intention is to be punitive to the Brisbane Lions. More like the AFL pouring some extra "we sure do love new venues" sentiment into the ether.

This Showring Oval... is this just that Tramway Oval between the SCG and the light rail that they're simply gonna "fancy up" a bit? Or another stadium they're building somewhere else nearby?

(I lived in Sydney for 7 years and Randwick for a while, so familiar with the area)

 

[Grasshopper17]

I have seen that one spun around a fair bit but I am not sure that would be any guarantee.
The reason being that she turned Brissy down due to not having a Stadium big enough.
So if VIC Park was to build a 55k stadium, would that be enough? Considering we already have a 55k stadium at Suncorp?

I would not have thought so. Another reason why Archipelago's 70,000 seater is a clear winner in my book. 70,000 is very much on a par or in excess of most rectangular stadiums in Europe and North America, so I think it would be attractive to Taylor and her ilk. Certainly it would stand out when selecting tour venues more than a 55k stadium.

 

[Grasshopper17]

I shall consider myself shouted down and educated.

Is it possible you are thinking about the WWE? It was held at Perth Stadium recently, not long after the Taylor Swift concerts.

 

[notliondown]

I promise you the cost of the Gabba Olympic park will rule it out.

The engineering required to build that structure over an underground railway station and tunnel that would never have envisaged the 2,500,000kg of water plus arena and associated infrastructure will kill it. Logistically it would be a nightmare, you are back to being faced with all of the realities of fitting a square peg in a round hole for the Gabba rebuild and by doing an arena at the same time you remove any laydown, preparation and mobilisation area that is required for construction.

It might look pretty but I reckon it's almost impossible to achieve when reality becomes a factor.

Brisbane Bold - Vic Park is no brainer. Logistically there is room to move - a massive construction plus and no doubt a huge cost saving factor. You can work on the 3 projects side by side and not really affect the other. Timelines will be easier which makes costs easier. It also allows to use the Feds input of $5B across all sites if they are clever.

Brisbane Live at Roma St makes no sense when you can create a precinct that will be a world beater. And from an Olympics point of view, having the one site for the most watched events makes management and overall costs of staffing, crowd control etc so much cheaper.

The nett increase in green space and the additional connectivity to the city, as well as dealing with the displacement of the AFL and Cricket should make it a clean sweep.

Lets hope that somewhere in all of this bullshit there's a leader who can see past the next election.

 

[Andyz]

I promise you the cost of the Gabba Olympic park will rule it out.

The engineering required to build that structure over an underground railway station and tunnel that would never have envisaged the 2,500,000kg of water plus arena and associated infrastructure will kill it. Logistically it would be a nightmare, you are back to being faced with all of the realities of fitting a square peg in a round hole for the Gabba rebuild and by doing an arena at the same time you remove any laydown, preparation and mobilisation area that is required for construction.

It might look pretty but I reckon it's almost impossible to achieve when reality becomes a factor.

Brisbane Bold - Vic Park is no brainer. Logistically there is room to move - a massive construction plus and no doubt a huge cost saving factor. You can work on the 3 projects side by side and not really affect the other. Timelines will be easier which makes costs easier. It also allows to use the Feds input of $5B across all sites if they are clever.

Brisbane Live at Roma St makes no sense when you can create a precinct that will be a world beater. And from an Olympics point of view, having the one site for the most watched events makes management and overall costs of staffing, crowd control etc so much cheaper.

The nett increase in green space and the additional connectivity to the city, as well as dealing with the displacement of the AFL and Cricket should make it a clean sweep.

Lets hope that somewhere in all of this bullshit there's a leader who can see past the next election.

Impossible to summarise it all better than this post!

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

I promise you the cost of the Gabba Olympic park will rule it out.

The engineering required to build that structure over an underground railway station and tunnel that would never have envisaged the 2,500,000kg of water plus arena and associated infrastructure will kill it. Logistically it would be a nightmare, you are back to being faced with all of the realities of fitting a square peg in a round hole for the Gabba rebuild and by doing an arena at the same time you remove any laydown, preparation and mobilisation area that is required for construction.

It might look pretty but I reckon it's almost impossible to achieve when reality becomes a factor.

Brisbane Bold - Vic Park is no brainer. Logistically there is room to move - a massive construction plus and no doubt a huge cost saving factor. You can work on the 3 projects side by side and not really affect the other. Timelines will be easier which makes costs easier. It also allows to use the Feds input of $5B across all sites if they are clever.

Brisbane Live at Roma St makes no sense when you can create a precinct that will be a world beater. And from an Olympics point of view, having the one site for the most watched events makes management and overall costs of staffing, crowd control etc so much cheaper.

The nett increase in green space and the additional connectivity to the city, as well as dealing with the displacement of the AFL and Cricket should make it a clean sweep.

Lets hope that somewhere in all of this bullshit there's a leader who can see past the next election.

I don't get the bid deal with having this entertainment precinct.
I mean are we now having restaurants around there as well, pretty sure that's not on the table.
Still have to go outside to go to bars restaurants.
So having said that what is the big advantage of having an entertainment centre and a stadium right next to each other.
Let's look at a Stadium in Vic park and Roma street indoor entertainment arena.
Both sites have no problem with construction logistics or problems with adjacent main roads.
Both have already public transport at their doors.
Why the need for them to be next to each other , I don't get it.
You are not going to a game , then go to the theatre / concert for a show are you. But you will have times where you have both events happening at the same time , exhausting those public stations when this happens.
For these reasons and the difficulty of building the arena at the Gabba is a design that is rediculous , can't believe that was even proposed .
I would hate to see the Vic park being used for anything other than the Stadium and parkland, public outdoor facilities.
For what is worth I'd rather the pollies fight for existing green space , parkland than more development .
I'll also add this , there is genuine green space or parkland where there are mature trees, mini ecosystems and there are so called green spaces over a highway with a couple of potplants on the side and raised grass beds, not the same.
If some of you don't get that then that's fine , but other people see it differently.
Green space , parkland is not just there for us to use , it's about nature , animals, and you know that air we breathe.
Some of you will probably pigeon hole me as a nimmby , whatever.
And can we please not say that an Olympic housing site at Vic park would help the housing crisis.
Think about it, it won't help the people that can't afford rent, it will be high end apartments close to the city for the well off.
It's about getting a balance .
We need a stadium site , but also parkland will also be important to a city, and even more so as it grows bigger.
We just need to get a plan that get's both parties happy and Quirks proposal of just putting a stadium on the Vic site , would get minimal disruption to existing mature parkland.

 

[notliondown]

I don't get the bid deal with having this entertainment precinct.
I mean are we now having restaurants around there as well, pretty sure that's not on the table.
Still have to go outside to go to bars restaurants.
So having said that what is the big advantage of having an entertainment centre and a stadium right next to each other.
Let's look at a Stadium in Vic park and Roma street indoor entertainment arena.
Both sites have no problem with construction logistics or problems with adjacent main roads.
Both have already public transport at their doors.
Why the need for them to be next to each other , I don't get it.
You are not going to a game , then go to the theatre / concert for a show are you. But you will have times where you have both events happening at the same time , exhausting those public stations when this happens.
For these reasons and the difficulty of building the arena at the Gabba is a design that is rediculous , can't believe that was even proposed .
I would hate to see the Vic park being used for anything other than the Stadium and parkland, public outdoor facilities.
For what is worth I'd rather the pollies fight for existing green space , parkland than more development .
I'll also add this , there is genuine green space or parkland where there are mature trees, mini ecosystems and there are so called green spaces over a highway with a couple of potplants on the side and raised grass beds, not the same.
If some of you don't get that then that's fine , but other people see it differently.
Green space , parkland is not just there for us to use , it's about nature , animals, and you know that air we breathe.
Some of you will probably pigeon hole me as a nimmby , whatever.
And can we please not say that an Olympic housing site at Vic park would help the housing crisis.
Think about it, it won't help the people that can't afford rent, it will be high end apartments close to the city for the well off.
It's about getting a balance .
We need a stadium site , but also parkland will also be important to a city, and even more so as it grows bigger.
We just need to get a plan that get's both parties happy and Quirks proposal of just putting a stadium on the Vic site , would get minimal disruption to existing mature parkland.

There's 2 things I think...

Being able to leverage the Federal funding across more than 1 site is a big one... It's specifically ear marked for the arena project so by having a separate location you lose the ability to have some of that money develop joint services and infrastructure.

Secondly, it links to the above... Why duplicate infrastructure? The whole issue here is cost. The whole debate and debacle is cost of new stadiums and Olympic spend.

1 site deletes duplication, it deletes construction costs, it deletes complexity, it reduces disruption and contains public displacement.

I think the dollar value shown by the bold project highlights by itself why a single precinct achieves the best overall result and value for money spent.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

I wonder if a compromise could be reached with the anti-Vic Park people by putting a stadium on the Gregory Terrace side, and building a platform over the railway and ICB. This is basically where the Brisbane Live arena sits in the Brisbane Bold plan. This side of the park is less used, and closer to the Valley, King St and Exhibition station.

 

[Grasshopper17]

I wonder if a compromise could be reached with the anti-Vic Park people by putting a stadium on the Gregory Terrace side, and building a platform over the railway and ICB. This is basically where the Brisbane Live arena sits in the Brisbane Bold plan. This side of the park is less used, and closer to the Valley, King St and Exhibition station.


View attachment 1962805

That's about where the Brisbane Bold proposal has the 3 venues (stadium, indoor venue, swim centre) I believe... Near where the current swimming pool complex is.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

That's about where the Brisbane Bold proposal has the 3 venues (stadium, indoor venue, swim centre) I believe... Near where the current swimming pool complex is.

No, Brisbane Bold has the stadium on the other side of the ICB. As I said, it's roughly where the arena is in Brisbane Bold.

 

[Grasshopper17]

No, Brisbane Bold has the stadium on the other side of the ICB. As I said, it's roughly where the arena is in Brisbane Bold.

You are quite right.



The above is looking from the north. It looks like there would not be enough space for all 3 venues on the eastern side of the inner city bypass.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

You are quite right.

View attachment 1962845

The above is looking from the north. It looks like there would not be enough space for all 3 venues on the eastern side of the inner city bypass.

You have almost as many tabs in your browser as I do!

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

There's 2 things I think...

Being able to leverage the Federal funding across more than 1 site is a big one... It's specifically ear marked for the arena project so by having a separate location you lose the ability to have some of that money develop joint services and infrastructure.

Secondly, it links to the above... Why duplicate infrastructure? The whole issue here is cost. The whole debate and debacle is cost of new stadiums and Olympic spend.

1 site deletes duplication, it deletes construction costs, it deletes complexity, it reduces disruption and contains public displacement.

I think the dollar value shown by the bold project highlights by itself why a single precinct achieves the best overall result and value for money spent.

Ok yes a precinct at Vic Pk would ultimately save costs , in those terms it makes sense.
I just don't see it happening , due to what has been rubber stamped within this precinct being parkland , tree house etc.
They would want to keep as much of that as possible if there is going to be a compromise.
But when you go down that track it might not be viable with the funding available.

As you say package these venues up together on the one site, but then maybe remove the village , that would still be saving on infrastructure in regards to the venues.
That would be some sort of compromise that might get them getting closer , but has that already been rejected though?
If we had the funding , then Roma st and Vic park still stands for a great result.
At the very least I hope this latest Senate enquiry might keep these people in charge transparent with their decisions.

 

[Dalions]

Ok yes a precinct at Vic Pk would ultimately save costs , in those terms it makes sense.
I just don't see it happening , due to what has been rubber stamped within this precinct being parkland , tree house etc.
They would want to keep as much of that as possible if there is going to be a compromise.
But when you go down that track it might not be viable with the funding available.

As you say package these venues up together on the one site, but then maybe remove the village , that would still be saving on infrastructure in regards to the venues.
That would be some sort of compromise that might get them getting closer , but has that already been rejected though?
If we had the funding , then Roma st and Vic park still stands for a great result.
At the very least I hope this latest Senate enquiry might keep these people in charge transparent with their decisions.

So what about if the BCC offer up some cash to take into account what was the likely spend on the Barrambin plan.
Would that get it over the line
Especially considering the stadium itself at VIC Park was only costing around $2b and the rest on the parkland and walkways etc.
So if BCC was to stump up say 800k-1b over the next 8 years?

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

So what about if the BCC offer up some cash to take into account what was the likely spend on the Barrambin plan.
Would that get it over the line
Especially considering the stadium itself at VIC Park was only costing around $2b and the rest on the parkland and walkways etc.
So if BCC was to stump up say 800k-1b over the next 8 years?

That's an interesting point you make there.
Maybe that was the carrot that Schrinner was chomping on, free barrambin build.
Is that why he is somewhat interested in the Stadium going there.
I'm a bit slow on these things.
Do we know that the council is not putting money forth towards the parkland build, if the stadium goes there?

 

[Dalions]

That's an interesting point you make there.
Maybe that was the carrot that Schrinner was chomping on, free barrambin build.
Is that why he is somewhat interested in the Stadium going there.
I'm a bit slow on these things.
Do we know that the council is not putting money forth towards the parkland build, if the stadium goes there?

I don’t believe so.

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

I don’t believe so.

If that's the case you'd like to think the Council would still commit to a fair amount . Say 50%
He's not spending much doe at the moment, squirrelling it away, maybe for big projects.
I heard the tunnels have blown out $500 mill.
I normally do contract work for the BCC this time of year , for the last 22 years anyway and this year a big fat $0.
What was in the budget has been taken away.

Not happy.
Might have to start taking sandwitches to the footy.

 

[BuntonRules]

What a f**** circus.

‘Half-baked and half-arsed’: federal inquiry takes aim at 2032 Brisbane Olympics planning​

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...cs-2032-planning-inquiry-federal-stadium-plan

 

[M Malice]

Just heard it is only 99 days until the Paris Olympics, when the Brisbane Olympic buffoons see how Paris presents to the World hopefully it is a big wakeup call.

 

[Section 5]

Just heard it is only 99 days until the Paris Olympics, when the Brisbane Olympic buffoons see how Paris presents to the World hopefully it is a big wakeup call.

Paris has their own issues regarding a few events which could be changed.

The opening and closing ceremony.

Around 30,000 police officers are expected to be deployed each day, with 45,000 working the opening ceremony.

With its own resources stretched thin, France has asked 46 countries to help provide about 2,200 extra officers, many of whom will be armed.

The Paris Games' grandiose opening ceremony is being squeezed by security and transport issues

The talk before the opening ceremony of the Paris Games ideally should be about its grandiose backdrop: a summer sun setting on the Seine River as athletes drift by in boats and wave to cheering crowds.

apnews.com

.............................................................................
The trialthon- swim leg on the Seine after spending £1billion on cleaning up the Seine a City/Olympic project.

“There is only one location. If it’s not suitable we postpone and change the date. Maybe one, three days until it’s okay. There is a final decision where we could not swim and it’s part of the rules of the International Federations.

Olympics event could undergo unprecedented change at Paris 2024

Paris 2024’s triathlon event could see swimming scrapped altogether if water pollution levels are too high. Athletes are set to swim 1500 metres in the River Seine to open the iconic race. Ho…

talksport.com

 

[M Malice]

Paris has their own issues regarding a few events which could be changed.

The opening and closing ceremony.

Around 30,000 police officers are expected to be deployed each day, with 45,000 working the opening ceremony.

With its own resources stretched thin, France has asked 46 countries to help provide about 2,200 extra officers, many of whom will be armed.

The Paris Games' grandiose opening ceremony is being squeezed by security and transport issues

The talk before the opening ceremony of the Paris Games ideally should be about its grandiose backdrop: a summer sun setting on the Seine River as athletes drift by in boats and wave to cheering crowds.

apnews.com

.............................................................................
The trialthon- swim leg on the Seine after spending £1billion on cleaning up the Seine a City/Olympic project.

“There is only one location. If it’s not suitable we postpone and change the date. Maybe one, three days until it’s okay. There is a final decision where we could not swim and it’s part of the rules of the International Federations.

Olympics event could undergo unprecedented change at Paris 2024

Paris 2024’s triathlon event could see swimming scrapped altogether if water pollution levels are too high. Athletes are set to swim 1500 metres in the River Seine to open the iconic race. Ho…

talksport.com

Thanks for the info, I think the main Olympic Stadium is what we want to compare QSAC to.

The massive numbers of Police is probably to lower the possibility of a Terrorist attack as much as possible.

 

[BangyBangy]

Haha it was a subtle setup, but I wasn't sure if you were just being facetious to stick one into Labor or genuinely not across it. Due to some of the other statements flying around in this thread I thought it was something worth at least clearing up.

As to your point with taking the decisions out of politicians hands, I absolutely agree with you, especially if they aren't will to put their electorate (in this case QLD) over their chances to get reelected.

The bad news is that putting it into that hands of developers or the private sector (companies like the Transurbans of the world) would be even worse. Tbh it's pretty depressing stuff.

Again, sorry if off topic a bit here guys. Sanchez365 & dlanod are you both across the cost blowouts in the tunnel project & metro rail projects? I'm not, other than basic stories I read. The below was from the guardian a few months back.

Victorians could be forgiven for missing the news late last week that the North East Link had blown out by $10bn.

After all, Melbourne’s West Gate Tunnel, first expected to cost $500m, then revised to $5.5bn, is now $10.2bn and counting, while the city’s Metro Tunnel has blown out by at least $1.36bn.

The total cost of the Suburban Rail Loop, meanwhile, is anyone’s guess.

For me, the cost blowouts are the most infuriating thing. I'm a small business owner. If I quote a job & get it wrong, I suck it up & honour the quote. I remember Southern Cross Station was a never ending blowout too.

How do they get it so wrong? It infuriates me there is no consequences for the public sector's incompetence.

 

[Sanchez365]

Again, sorry if off topic a bit here guys. Sanchez365 & dlanod are you both across the cost blowouts in the tunnel project & metro rail projects? I'm not, other than basic stories I read. The below was from the guardian a few months back.

Victorians could be forgiven for missing the news late last week that the North East Link had blown out by $10bn.

After all, Melbourne’s West Gate Tunnel, first expected to cost $500m, then revised to $5.5bn, is now $10.2bn and counting, while the city’s Metro Tunnel has blown out by at least $1.36bn.

The total cost of the Suburban Rail Loop, meanwhile, is anyone’s guess.

For me, the cost blowouts are the most infuriating thing. I'm a small business owner. If I quote a job & get it wrong, I suck it up & honour the quote. I remember Southern Cross Station was a never ending blowout too.

How do they get it so wrong? It infuriates me there is no consequences for the public sector's incompetence.

A large number of the cost blowouts is due to the massive increase in materials post COVID. A lot of fixed cost builders all went bust throughout VIC (and probably elsewhere) and instead of the Metro tunnel project falling over, they just eat the costs.

In addition there has been a massive pay raise that has gone through the APS recently, which is probably also pushing wage costs up.

I also know the Metro Tunnel project had some kind of EPA issue when they started doing their first drilling, and the main contractor backed out of the project and they had to get another to take over it, and that was how the cost went up so much.

As for the cost of the West Gate Tunnel, I'm pretty sure cost blowouts with regards to that are getting eaten by the developer, but that will definitely be a toll road when it opens. Part of the deal for the extension of the City link contract with Transurban was to get them to take on building the West Gate Tunnel I believe. I'm pretty hazy on the details, but that's roughly what I remember.

As for the Suburban Rail loop, that is a massive project they are only building instages, if it ever actually gets built.

Andrews used his popularity at the end of his run to push through a lot of major projects that the city needed. The Metro Tunnel that is being built is required to get trains out of the City loop, and will increase capacity across every line in the city, which is currently at maximum capacity. They also pushed through the Airport Rail Link as well so people don't have to catch a bus to the airport from the city anymore. However I think that is under some kind of stalemate around it being an above ground or below ground issue. The Suburban rail loop always seemed like a bit of a pipedream but wasnt meant to be delivered until 2050, so I've kinda of disregarded that mostly.

On the roads front there is obviously the West Gate Tunnel happening and they also started connecting the Western Ring Road into the Eastern Freeway which currently doesnt exist, another pretty important artieral link.

Overall, there's no doubt in my mind that they started all these projects to stop the unemployment rate skyrocketing following the crumbling of the building industry after the cost of materials blew out due to COVID.

I think there is more infrastructure development happening in Melbourne right now then I have ever seen before.

Edit: they are also removing all the level crossings around Melbourne by raising the train lines which has also really.helped traffic congestion.

 

[Section 5]

Thanks for the info, I think the main Olympic Stadium is what we want to compare QSAC to.

The massive numbers of Police is probably to lower the possibility of a Terrorist attack as much as possible.

The national stadium of France is also the largest in the country, with a capacity of 80,698. Originally built for the 1998 World Cup, the stadium also has been a site of men's UEFA Champions League finals, Rugby World Cup games and the World Athletics Championship. Track & field will return to the Stade de France for the Paris Olympics, and the stadium will also host the Closing Ceremony.

 

[buttermuffs]

The national stadium of France is also the largest in the country, with a capacity of 80,698. Originally built for the 1998 World Cup, the stadium also has been a site of men's UEFA Champions League finals, Rugby World Cup games and the World Athletics Championship. Track & field will return to the Stade de France for the Paris Olympics, and the stadium will also host the Closing Ceremony.

View attachment 1963411

Weird place to suggest we move during the Gabba rebuild. Might have to run a few specialised bus routes to make it work for us but not against it.