- Mar 12, 2003
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What powers will this inquiry actually have? Sounds like it has the potential to be just another great big talk fest
News Gabba Upgrade & Olympics News
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Just like the previous Commonwealth Senate inquiries into the Brisbane Olympics they brought up stuff about the Vic Commonwealth Games penalty and other State funded projects that had no tie to Commonwealth funding. Just a talk fest.
When in fact the Federal Senate really only have some sway over Commonwealth funds.
This gets back to what i have been saying for some time.
It is the Brisbane Arena Commonwealth funds of $2.5 billion that everyone should have had issues with.
Hopefully some senator with some sense just keeps asking the same question over and over.
Does the Commonwealth want to fund an Entertainment Centre as an Olympic legacy or a new Stadium?
We all know they have the funds for both projects but for political reasons they don't want to go down that path.
Crazy stuff but that is where we have landed.
Both are needed in Brisbane. It appears the costs could now be very similar.
Brisbane Arena Kirk review said upwards of $4 billion to complete on the original site.
The new site no costing or validation report available yet. It could be cheaper or dearer than the $2.5 billion.
Or a new Stadium + new $620 million 3 pool Olympic site at Nathan for the $2.5 billion.
Then there is no need to spend $1.6 billion plus infostructure at QSAC. These funds could be now used for infostructure.
When in fact the Federal Senate really only have some sway over Commonwealth funds.
This gets back to what i have been saying for some time.
It is the Brisbane Arena Commonwealth funds of $2.5 billion that everyone should have had issues with.
Hopefully some senator with some sense just keeps asking the same question over and over.
Does the Commonwealth want to fund an Entertainment Centre as an Olympic legacy or a new Stadium?
We all know they have the funds for both projects but for political reasons they don't want to go down that path.
Crazy stuff but that is where we have landed.
Both are needed in Brisbane. It appears the costs could now be very similar.
Brisbane Arena Kirk review said upwards of $4 billion to complete on the original site.
The new site no costing or validation report available yet. It could be cheaper or dearer than the $2.5 billion.
Or a new Stadium + new $620 million 3 pool Olympic site at Nathan for the $2.5 billion.
Then there is no need to spend $1.6 billion plus infostructure at QSAC. These funds could be now used for infostructure.
They could cure cancer, fix climate change and give free lollypops to every child and the senate enquiry would still be ultra critical...without ever actually offering any solution themselves.
- Mar 12, 2003
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Maybe they can hold John Coates in contempt?
Woolworths boss Brad Banducci threatened with contempt charge in fiery Senate inquiry hearing
Chair Nick McKim takes issue with CEO’s refusal to disclose company’s return on equity amid claims of price gouging
Elixuh
See you on the 9th green at 9
Maybe they can hold John Coates in contempt?
Woolworths boss Brad Banducci threatened with contempt charge in fiery Senate inquiry hearing
Chair Nick McKim takes issue with CEO’s refusal to disclose company’s return on equity amid claims of price gougingwww.theguardian.com
Coates will say:
1. Olympics good.
2. Brisbane will do good Olympics.
3. Anything which falls outside the scope of those talking points will be, refer to points 1 and 2. And spin.
The reason they’re appearing to go so far in the supermarkets one is because they’ve basically got unanimous public support behind them. So no risk of losing any political capital. Only gains.
Not so with the Olympics. Too many differing opinions on different issues.
Well they are both tunnels so that have that in common, but are solving totally different problems. The East West link was to dig a tunnel through royal park and join the eastern freeway into city link. This would have directed all traffic directly through the middle of the city.
The West gate tunnel is to connect the ring road to the M1 so you don't have to cross two bridges (or sneak through Footscray like most trucks do).
Sure, both tunnels, both expensive. But they aren't "the same thing". And as Dlanod said, the 1b contract cost was a shoehorn by the previous government to try and strong arm them into building something that was the catalyst for the libs getting voted out at the time.
Tying that back into what's happening in QLD, Labor is at least specifically avoiding that by agreeing to not sign any contracts before the election. Even if it's disappointing to see them being so shortsighted in their long term vision from the city, at least they aren't burning extra capitol on the way out (aka lining their mates pockets) like Napthine as he vacated parliament.
Did you ask me to respond already knowing the answer Sanchez? Lol. Are you a lawyer?
In my defence, my main point (Edit: if you scroll back enough) was that infrastructure planning & decisions should be taken out of the hands of politicians.
Haha it was a subtle setup, but I wasn't sure if you were just being facetious to stick one into Labor or genuinely not across it. Due to some of the other statements flying around in this thread I thought it was something worth at least clearing up.
As to your point with taking the decisions out of politicians hands, I absolutely agree with you, especially if they aren't will to put their electorate (in this case QLD) over their chances to get reelected.
The bad news is that putting it into that hands of developers or the private sector (companies like the Transurbans of the world) would be even worse. Tbh it's pretty depressing stuff.
Out of the hands of politicians doesn't mean it goes to the private sector. That would be a worse case scenario IMO.
Remember when we were told that the energy sector being privatized would lead to lower prices due to competition?
It's never going to happen, but let me dream. A non partisan public sector think tank who's only purpose is to design & implement infrastructure projects without graft & corruption.
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for graft & corruption if I'm in on it...... but if I'm not getting a cut......
I think senate inquiries are useful for setting the media narrative and hence public discourse. The media are underfunded and love reprinting senate discussions as its basically a free article with no research required. Just send the intern out to rewrite some quotes and then spell check before printing. Its clear why Coates has decided to present himself. The narrative has been flipping from cost of living crisis means we need a tight budget games to Coates is willing to debase Australia with an embarrassing Aldi games for his own political interests. He is going on to redress this. Quirk also has his narrative to print. A budget Aldi games may be his legacy and he doesn't want that. Its interesting to see Newman, Soorley coming out of the woodworks. Im wondering what their angle is. Is it pure nimbyism. Do they have some financial stakes too? Unusual.
- Mar 12, 2003
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Yes the list of speakers that I've seen looks concerningly weighted one way. Thank goodness Peter Edwards from Archipelago is presenting... Out of everyone involved in this mess he's arguably the only one who has shown the necessary foresight to move Brisbane forward to the extent needed.
For what it's worth I was pretty disappointed in the Quirk review. It looked like he completely ignored Edwards' Brisbane Bold solution, in favour of Steven Wilson's far more underwhelming and vanilla proposal of a 55k seat stadium in Victoria Park and an events arena in Roma Parklands.
For starters, it would make so much more sense to have both these venues nearby, similar to the MCG, Rod Laver Arena and the rectangular stadium. Or in Sydney where you have the SCG, the Sydney Football Stadium and the Hordern Pavilion literally side by side.
If that wasn't enough by itself, the Brisbane Bold proposal recommended a 70,000 seat stadium which is bang on. Sure, we might not need it now but in 15-20 years time we'll be glad we built it that big. I've mentioned this before but Wilson's 55,000 will end up being 45,000 once you put in big screens, a "Verandah", sightscreens etc. Just like how the Gabba's "42,000" is actually only 33,000 generally. 55,000, I mean honestly, why bother? Complete waste of time. Think big, think bold.
Then there was Edwards' proposal to cover over the top of the inner city bypass, minimising the loss of any green space which would placate all these bloody NIMBY's coming out of the woodwork. If they bothered to actually read the proposal. Again, completely ignored by Quirk.
And we top it all off with Edwards' plan to build an Olympic village and health sciences precinct on site as well. An Olympic village which will become much-needed housing in the centre of Brisbane after the end of the Games.
Literally the Brisbane Bold proposal ticks all the boxes. So of course it was summarily ignored by Quirk in favour of the "more renowned" Mr Wilson.
Maybe he tried his best but unfortunately my impressions of Quirk out of all this is he is little better than the rest of them. It's all about who you are rather than the quality of your proposal.
I just can't understand how Coates can be having such influence on our state....he has nothing to do with Brisbane & would care less about Brisbane's future! All we have to do is look to Melbourne, Sydney, Perth & Adelaide to see the benefits of long term infrastructure bring....Perth stole our test opener with its new stadium...and will now be cashing in on that every year which means lost income & tourism for Brisbane.
Can no one in any position of influence work out that attracting more big events brings more people into the city whom spend money whilst they are here helping our small & medium businesses??? Not to mention advertising Brisbane to the world during the Olympics.....there's a reason so many international visitors head to Melbourne & Sydney - because they have good world wide reputations. We however will be a laughing stock & it will damage international tourism permanently.
You can't just look at money out without examining income in like the clowns we have running the state....it's not called 'investing' for no reason! Listening to the stupid politicians and Mor%$#$ Coates would have you forget the income side of the equation entirely.....yet I bet they all have several investment properties and good share portfolios etc etc....happy to invest personally and reap the benefits themselves but oh no our city & state can't invest.....
Can no one in any position of influence work out that attracting more big events brings more people into the city whom spend money whilst they are here helping our small & medium businesses??? Not to mention advertising Brisbane to the world during the Olympics.....there's a reason so many international visitors head to Melbourne & Sydney - because they have good world wide reputations. We however will be a laughing stock & it will damage international tourism permanently.
You can't just look at money out without examining income in like the clowns we have running the state....it's not called 'investing' for no reason! Listening to the stupid politicians and Mor%$#$ Coates would have you forget the income side of the equation entirely.....yet I bet they all have several investment properties and good share portfolios etc etc....happy to invest personally and reap the benefits themselves but oh no our city & state can't invest.....
Coates response to the Senate Inquiry pretty much was "if the QLD Government, AFL & Cricket want to pay for a new stadium at Victoria Park, they are free to go for it but do not label it an Olympic Cost"
Iron Turtle
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Way back in 1997 I lived in Houston for just over a year and they were working out ways to fund their new stadium.
Before I had a permanent residence I had to rent a hotel for 2 weeks, I notice this extra fee on my hotel bill. It was a small tax on all out of county people for hotel stays, and this went to fund the new stadium they were planning on building (Reliant stadium) to replace the Astrodome. Local residents were not affected by these taxes as it main applied to visitors.
Anyway I think this a good way of funding things like new or rebuild stadiums. Stops things like "Cost of living /Housing Crisis" issues complicating things. The only things people will have left to complain about is location.
The following link shows how they fund a few of the NFL stadiums in the states. https://nkamalia.wixsite.com/fin320nfl/stadium
The private funding for this stadium is from Naming rights and the rest was raised through a series of small taxes (Harris County). This avoids the government having to fund the whole stadium.
This is the breakdown for Reliant /NGR stadium.
Before I had a permanent residence I had to rent a hotel for 2 weeks, I notice this extra fee on my hotel bill. It was a small tax on all out of county people for hotel stays, and this went to fund the new stadium they were planning on building (Reliant stadium) to replace the Astrodome. Local residents were not affected by these taxes as it main applied to visitors.
Anyway I think this a good way of funding things like new or rebuild stadiums. Stops things like "Cost of living /Housing Crisis" issues complicating things. The only things people will have left to complain about is location.
The following link shows how they fund a few of the NFL stadiums in the states. https://nkamalia.wixsite.com/fin320nfl/stadium
The private funding for this stadium is from Naming rights and the rest was raised through a series of small taxes (Harris County). This avoids the government having to fund the whole stadium.
This is the breakdown for Reliant /NGR stadium.
Newman really trashed Quirk over Victoria Park, claimed his review hadn't considered the impact on transport or the hospital. Newman wants the stadium at Boondall. Ironically, Boondall was one of the locations proposed for a new stadium back when the Bears were due to enter the VFL.
Jim Soorley wants it at Petrie. Both are at least near train stations, but beyond that, are either of them superior to QSAC in any other way?
Jim Soorley wants it at Petrie. Both are at least near train stations, but beyond that, are either of them superior to QSAC in any other way?
Iron Turtle
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From the senate review Brisbane times
Great more location options, and looking after the Dolphins.
Campbell Newman has called for a change in the City of Brisbane Act, to protect Victoria Park from any future development.
“The whole thing should be an inner-city piece of green space accessible to all, for all time,” Newman said.
As lord mayor, Newman railed against the Urban Land Development Authority as state government overreach into council decision-making.
“I find it very curious that Graham Quirk, who led this whole bid for the Olympics ... in nine years we never heard about Victoria Park until this review.
“I question how they have been able to, in 60 days, do all the comprehensive studies to look at transport, the impact on the hospital … all these things should have been considered.”
Newman said Victoria Park needed to be ruled out immediately, and suggested Boondall as an Olympic site.
Both said they were at the inquiry as “concerned citizens”.
Soorley said there had been a lot of talk about Olympic legacy.
“...There will be no greater legacy than keeping this space green space forever,” he said, adding Victoria Park was only getting more precious as the city grew.
Soorley said a greenfield site at Petrie should be considered as the main Olympic venue.
“If you went out there you could build a stadium, it won’t be inconveniencing anyone … and the Dolphins football team will need it,” he said.
Soorley said the Olympics would be “second-tier” by 2032 in any case, behind the planned drug-fuelled Enhanced Games.
Great more location options, and looking after the Dolphins.
Newman takes aim at former deputy Quirk’s review
By Cameron Atfield
Campbell Newman has called for a change in the City of Brisbane Act, to protect Victoria Park from any future development.
“The whole thing should be an inner-city piece of green space accessible to all, for all time,” Newman said.
As lord mayor, Newman railed against the Urban Land Development Authority as state government overreach into council decision-making.
“I find it very curious that Graham Quirk, who led this whole bid for the Olympics ... in nine years we never heard about Victoria Park until this review.
“I question how they have been able to, in 60 days, do all the comprehensive studies to look at transport, the impact on the hospital … all these things should have been considered.”
Newman said Victoria Park needed to be ruled out immediately, and suggested Boondall as an Olympic site.
Former foes unite against Victoria Park stadium
By Cameron Atfield
Former Brisbane lord mayors Jim Soorley (Labor) and Campbell Newman (LNP) have taken their seats at the Olympic inquiry.Both said they were at the inquiry as “concerned citizens”.
Soorley said there had been a lot of talk about Olympic legacy.
“...There will be no greater legacy than keeping this space green space forever,” he said, adding Victoria Park was only getting more precious as the city grew.
Soorley said a greenfield site at Petrie should be considered as the main Olympic venue.
“If you went out there you could build a stadium, it won’t be inconveniencing anyone … and the Dolphins football team will need it,” he said.
Soorley said the Olympics would be “second-tier” by 2032 in any case, behind the planned drug-fuelled Enhanced Games.
MSB ROYS
Brownlow Medallist
Leaving a legacy for the Dolphins (the RL team not the mammals), now I have heard it all.
MSB ROYS
Brownlow Medallist
How things are going for AFL and Cricket Australia.
So build an Oval Olympic stadium at Petrie and but a Rugby League team in it post Olympics as they will "need it" , in other words stuff the Lions/AFL....and they really do need a new Stadium. 
Gee you've got to question why on earth they're bothering to speak to these old crazy mayors for and not the current mayor!
Schrinner is landslidingly popular....why is he not part of this? He represents us NOW....and a big majority too.....and guess what he wants Vic park! So how he isn't involved is beyond me....
The past mayors belong in the past, their views are antequated now and and Brisbane is now an entirely different city to what they governed.
Soorley is clearly ridiculous given he claims the Olympics will be 2nd tier to the drug fuelled games....I mean reallly did he just say that?! Not to mention that Vic Park isn't really about the Olympics anyway and is about our NEED for a new oval stadium. May as well drag up Bob Katter too if they are bothering to give him any airtime.
As for Newman well we all remember he even lost his own seat in his last election.....his views no longer matched the Brisbane community way back then and they are even more irrelevant now. Not to mention his subsequent Covid ramblings....
I think Boondall would be a big failure, all other city's main stadiums are in the city. You can't have a main stadium 1/2 hour out of the city or it's back to the old white elephant again, there's no way the Lions would move there or cricket / BBL as they know it would kill ticket sales.
Victoria tried to have an oval 20k out from the city - Waverley Park - and look what happened to that....these stupid people in power just need to look at what has worked in other cities and what has failed in other cities....it's the easiest job in the world....yet they still can't do it.
Yes, Petrie/Boondall are patently ridiculous locations for a major stadium, it simply must be as close to the CBD as humanly possible, that is also a central point for travel for all Brisbane residents... Petrie from most of the southside of Brisbane is just too far.
Also I thought the Bold Brisbane plan would have ended up having more public land/green space than was proposed in the original Council park proposal... the Stadium would take up a small percentage of the total land available.
Iron Turtle
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Some more updates from Brisbane times
3.19pm
Senate inquiry chairman asked State Development Minister Graham Fraine what information the government relied on to decide on QSAC as an option.
Fraine said, during the course of the Quirk review, the government became aware of the panel’s direction towards recommending a new Victoria Park stadium.
“John Coates was also expressing views about QSAC,” he said.
Fraine said when the government understood Victoria Park was “where the [review] panel was headed”, his department was asked to “have a look” at QSAC.
“That is the work we are now commencing in a project validation report,” he said.
Senator Matt Canavan, who is leading the inquiry, asked Fraine whether that was a case of “shooting first and asking questions later”.
“The purpose of the project validation report is to inform that final investment decision,” Fraine responded.
Fraine said that report was due in the “fourth quarter of this year”.
2.59pm
She said she was keeping an open mind on Victoria Park, having been impressed with Archipelago founder Peter Edwards’ presentation earlier in the day.
Atkinson had previously been one of five former lord mayors to oppose a Victoria Park stadium.
“On principle, I’m strongly against the removal of any parkland from the city and I’ve listened to what Jim [Soorley] and Campbell [Newman] have said,” she said.
“On principle, we need to preserve absolutely everything we’ve got and where it is.
“But at the same time, I have seen Peter Edwards’ proposal. He had a gathering of movers and shakers of the town to present it to us.
“... If that stadium, which I’m assured by some of those people, can be built and not destroy parkland, I’ve got an open mind on it all.”
But Atkinson said her preference would still be the Queensland Sport and Athletic Stadium because “it’s there, it exists”.
QSAC, then known as QEII Stadium, was slated to be the 1992 Brisbane Olympic Stadium.
Atkinson said there was plenty of time to resolve transport issues at the Nathan venue.
“We’re talking about 10 years’ time – I don’t see that as insurmountable,” she said.
2.54pm
Newman said Crisafulli’s planned 100-day review left the Victoria Park option open, despite the Opposition Leader’s insistence the LNP would not consider new stadiums.
“We don’t want that – we want that dead, buried and cremated. We want it gone,” he said.
“We want the alternatives looked at, but not that one.”
2.35pm
That proposal for a “Gabba Olympic Park” suggested a Gabba rebuild, with the new Brisbane Arena just across Main Street from the cricket ground.
“Wouldn’t it be fantastic to be able to go to events there, in the Gabba, at these new essentially twin stadiums?” he said.
“Wouldn’t it be sensational – the best public transport connectivity of any possible stadium. I mean, Suncorp [Stadium], not far from us now, is not easily accessible with PT [public transport].
“Brisbane residents have got to hike from the railway station or the bus stations and even Victoria Park will have an element of that.
“But at the Gabba you’d just come straight up from the basement and there you are in this fantastic stadium.”
Newman said the cost of that development would be “for the politicians to worry about”.
3.19pm
State announced QSAC without proper study
By Cameron Atfield
A senior public servant has revealed the Miles government landed on the Queensland Sport and Athletics Centre as the main Olympic stadium without undertaking a proper study into its viability.Senate inquiry chairman asked State Development Minister Graham Fraine what information the government relied on to decide on QSAC as an option.
Fraine said, during the course of the Quirk review, the government became aware of the panel’s direction towards recommending a new Victoria Park stadium.
“John Coates was also expressing views about QSAC,” he said.
Fraine said when the government understood Victoria Park was “where the [review] panel was headed”, his department was asked to “have a look” at QSAC.
“That is the work we are now commencing in a project validation report,” he said.
Senator Matt Canavan, who is leading the inquiry, asked Fraine whether that was a case of “shooting first and asking questions later”.
“The purpose of the project validation report is to inform that final investment decision,” Fraine responded.
Fraine said that report was due in the “fourth quarter of this year”.
2.59pm
Sallyanne Atkinson cools her opposition to Victoria Park
By Cameron Atfield
Former lord mayor Sallyanne Atkinson, who spearheaded Brisbane’s unsuccessful bid for the 1992 Games, has now taken the stand.She said she was keeping an open mind on Victoria Park, having been impressed with Archipelago founder Peter Edwards’ presentation earlier in the day.
Atkinson had previously been one of five former lord mayors to oppose a Victoria Park stadium.
“On principle, I’m strongly against the removal of any parkland from the city and I’ve listened to what Jim [Soorley] and Campbell [Newman] have said,” she said.
“On principle, we need to preserve absolutely everything we’ve got and where it is.
“But at the same time, I have seen Peter Edwards’ proposal. He had a gathering of movers and shakers of the town to present it to us.
“... If that stadium, which I’m assured by some of those people, can be built and not destroy parkland, I’ve got an open mind on it all.”
But Atkinson said her preference would still be the Queensland Sport and Athletic Stadium because “it’s there, it exists”.
QSAC, then known as QEII Stadium, was slated to be the 1992 Brisbane Olympic Stadium.
Atkinson said there was plenty of time to resolve transport issues at the Nathan venue.
“We’re talking about 10 years’ time – I don’t see that as insurmountable,” she said.
2.54pm
Campbell Newman ‘concerned’ about Crisafulli victory - sort of
By Cameron Atfield
Campbell Newman told the Senate inquiry he was “concerned” Opposition Leader David Crisafulli would win this year’s state election, but only when it came to Victoria Park.Newman said Crisafulli’s planned 100-day review left the Victoria Park option open, despite the Opposition Leader’s insistence the LNP would not consider new stadiums.
“We don’t want that – we want that dead, buried and cremated. We want it gone,” he said.
“We want the alternatives looked at, but not that one.”
2.35pm
Newman impressed with Gabba ‘twin stadium’ plan
By Cameron Atfield
Campbell Newman has told the inquiry he was impressed by local architectural firm Hayes Anderson Lynch’s vision for a new Gabba stadium precinct.That proposal for a “Gabba Olympic Park” suggested a Gabba rebuild, with the new Brisbane Arena just across Main Street from the cricket ground.
“Wouldn’t it be fantastic to be able to go to events there, in the Gabba, at these new essentially twin stadiums?” he said.
“Wouldn’t it be sensational – the best public transport connectivity of any possible stadium. I mean, Suncorp [Stadium], not far from us now, is not easily accessible with PT [public transport].
“Brisbane residents have got to hike from the railway station or the bus stations and even Victoria Park will have an element of that.
“But at the Gabba you’d just come straight up from the basement and there you are in this fantastic stadium.”
Newman said the cost of that development would be “for the politicians to worry about”.
Thanks for all the updates Iron Turtle, would love to see what statements Peter Edwards made to the enquiry if you have the time and inclination to link it.
Dalions
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I am actually quite a fan of this plan.
Introducing "Gabba Olympic Park": A Game-Changing Concept for Brisbane's Olympic Bid
Revolutionizing Brisbane's Olympic Bid: 'Gabba Olympic Park' Proposal Unveiled to Integrate Iconic Stadium and Entertainment Arena.
australiandevelopmentreview.com.au
But I think that would be an amazing precinct and no green space being lost.
Yep, I had seen that and love it and think it would be the best long term option for the Lions, and me as I could continue to walk there on game dayI am actually quite a fan of this plan.
I personally think it makes the most sense. All bar the fact that we would be displaced for a period which is obviously not ideal.Introducing "Gabba Olympic Park": A Game-Changing Concept for Brisbane's Olympic Bid
Revolutionizing Brisbane's Olympic Bid: 'Gabba Olympic Park' Proposal Unveiled to Integrate Iconic Stadium and Entertainment Arena.
But I think that would be an amazing precinct and no green space being lost.
however as you say where would we play while it is being built is the conundrum.It looks so bloody good if this is what would actually be delivered in the end.
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