Autopsy Round 7, 2024: Port Adelaide v St.Kilda

[jwint43]

I know why people keep suggesting we do this but it has never worked for us. Hell of all the players we traded out in the early 2010s, Goddard, McEvoy, Dal, Stanley, I can’t think of one that was even a net neutral or us let alone a net positive. If we finish low on the ladder so be it we get a top 10 pick and a good second round pick just from that happening. Just use the **** things properly, no excuses. No need to trade the good players it took us years to find in the first place.

You need older, established players both for consistency and culture. No premiership team has ever been 22 guys in their absolute prime at age 26, but that's what everyone expects. I believe Steele, Sincs, Marshall etc can all still be playing good footy by the time we are ready for a proper push.

Our biggest problem was trying to improve on the fringes with moneyball picks like Savage, Stevens & Membrey because we can't attract FA talent without overpaying until we have a sustained success period (theoretically). Our heavy investment in the draft the last couple of years will hopefully give us the core we never quite got with Billings, Mcartin, Acres, Gresh etc who were all at times good but none of them ever became great.

 

[bergholt]

I know why people keep suggesting we do this but it has never worked for us. Hell of all the players we traded out in the early 2010s, Goddard, McEvoy, Dal, Stanley, I can’t think of one that was even a net neutral or us let alone a net positive. If we finish low on the ladder so be it we get a top 10 pick and a good second round pick just from that happening. Just use the **** things properly, no excuses. No need to trade the good players it took us years to find in the first place.

Agree. No club has found success by trading out older players. It even failed for Hawthorn when they tried to get value for Jordan Lewis and Sam Mitchell.

Yes, if you've given up on them ever being good - Billings, Gresham - then that's fine. And if they're not positive for the culture you're trying to build then you definitely need to get rid of them.

But trading out good guys to get draft picks? It's not a thing unfortunately. Never has been.

 

[Stickman90]

Agree. No club has found success by trading out older players. It even failed for Hawthorn when they tried to get value for Jordan Lewis and Sam Mitchell.

Yes, if you've given up on them ever being good - Billings, Gresham - then that's fine. And if they're not positive for the culture you're trying to build then you definitely need to get rid of them.

But trading out good guys to get draft picks? It's not a thing unfortunately. Never has been.

Ben McEvoy

On SM-A526B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Saintbloke]

I hope Bassat has a public media go at the AFL over the suspension

 

[bergholt]

Ben McEvoy

Are you saying we found success by trading him out?

 

[gringo2011]

Kosi v giansiacusa
Baker attempted striking
King
Windhager
Higgins
We set precedence for a living

Ryder and Long both got unique suspensions too. I think Long was the first to get potential to cause an injury charges. Ryder for standing in someone's way.

 

[gringo2011]

That's the problem isn't it? We lose any of them and the senior core crumbles...no one is going to take a banged up Jones, Crouch, or Butler (who I wouldn't get rid of anyway, personally speaking...same with Crouch...depending on how bad his knee is) Membrey, Paton, and Howard could potentially make way...but for what, hopes of a second rounder, but more likely a third and fourth by the time North, GWS, and GC pillage everything, and every other team takes their father/son talents? Then there's JWeb, Wood, and Hill, all of whom are too near the end, and are still too vital for to us to lose anyway.
We got nothin in the 25+ age group to move on
The only card we hold is Battle, and I would be loathe to lose him.
The high draft kids however have currency...we just have too few to spare.
Collard and Pou anyone??
Anyone??
No...but, but, that's our playing hand.

Edit: Pou has re signed for two years apparently.

We need quality over quantity now. Selling off quality for a gamble seems like a bad move. I think having a down year in 2024 might be a god send to be honest. One gun mid from the draft that hits the ground running and chase up some bargain free agents/ trades and we are a lot closer.

We need bulk mids and some high end in there, we need small forwards, a tall forward who can ruck and upgrade one of the tall backs.

We have plenty of developing youth and probably need to get less through of higher quality.

 

[gringo2011]

Not long ago the deciding factor was whether the player's arms were pinned when brought to ground. Aliir had one arm free and the dork contributed to the outcome by not trying to take some sort of preventative action.

Yeah didn't sling him at all. He held the guy's arm and dropped his own weight to the ground to pull the bigger guy down.

The AFL need to redefine 90% of the rules. Make it so the rules are defined. If you tackle by the arm it's illegal. If you bump it's illegal etc. They are making rules up based on outcomes and making the crime fit the charge.

They are too scared to change rules in case of a backlash from purists but are using a set of rules that don't exist to suspend players.

Marshall got slung in nearly the exact same way earlier in the match. If the potential is the same as actual outcome that player should get the same charge as Higgins. They have lost control of their own game.

 

[gringo2011]

You need older, established players both for consistency and culture. No premiership team has ever been 22 guys in their absolute prime at age 26, but that's what everyone expects. I believe Steele, Sincs, Marshall etc can all still be playing good footy by the time we are ready for a proper push.

Our biggest problem was trying to improve on the fringes with moneyball picks like Savage, Stevens & Membrey because we can't attract FA talent without overpaying until we have a sustained success period (theoretically). Our heavy investment in the draft the last couple of years will hopefully give us the core we never quite got with Billings, Mcartin, Acres, Gresh etc who were all at times good but none of them ever became great.

Our biggest issue is that we never replaced John Beverage and he was still a part time recruiter in his retirement years then replaced him with the Geelong bloke for a couple of years and then Trout. Basically we didn't draft well between Brendan Goddard and if you are generous Max King but possibly 3 years ago. We took the least 22 under 22 players, least rising stars, least AA players, least players to reach 100 games etc.

You can't have 20 years of the worst drafting in the league and build a strong core. We have had to patch up all the way through to cover holes and every time you patch you lose access to another ticket in the draft lottery.

The holes are the couple of good players you take every year from 5 to 10 year ago and then the old core from before that. We are always in deficit. We have been good at patching a leaking boat but we are always playing catch up.

Our list management in trading away guys like McEvoy, Stanley, Hickey, Acres etc and not getting the same value we had to pay to replace them is another problem.

The best thing we have under Lyon is an expectation of high standards in the footy department. Without that we were always on the road to nowhere.

 

[dudeintheswamp]

Yeah didn't sling him at all. He held the guy's arm and dropped his own weight to the ground to pull the bigger guy down.

The AFL need to redefine 90% of the rules. Make it so the rules are defined. If you tackle by the arm it's illegal. If you bump it's illegal etc. They are making rules up based on outcomes and making the crime fit the charge.

They are too scared to change rules in case of a backlash from purists but are using a set of rules that don't exist to suspend players.

Marshall got slung in nearly the exact same way earlier in the match. If the potential is the same as actual outcome that player should get the same charge as Higgins. They have lost control of their own game.

Yeah agree, feels like there are more grey areas in the rules now than ever before.

 

[True Believer]

Yeah agree, feels like there are more grey areas in the rules now than ever before.

That is by design, and happened under Demetriou and his pet lawyer Anderson (oh, the irony....).

We should be taking this to the tribunal, as manifestly unjust. And if that does not work, we should be appealing!

Another question, how long has Christian been on this gravy train with no accountability, and when is he due to be replaced? It should actually be a 3 person panel, and there should be some sort of accountability, the current system is open to massive bias, manipulation and corruption. Coincidentally, we play the team recently presided over by the current head of football this week!

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Coincidentally, we play the team recently presided over by the current head of football this week!

 

[D2D3]

Yeah didn't sling him at all. He held the guy's arm and dropped his own weight to the ground to pull the bigger guy down.

The AFL need to redefine 90% of the rules. Make it so the rules are defined. If you tackle by the arm it's illegal. If you bump it's illegal etc. They are making rules up based on outcomes and making the crime fit the charge.

They are too scared to change rules in case of a backlash from purists but are using a set of rules that don't exist to suspend players.

Marshall got slung in nearly the exact same way earlier in the match. If the potential is the same as actual outcome that player should get the same charge as Higgins. They have lost control of their own game.

No you see the problem is if they have a defined set of rules then they can’t let off Brownlow favourites or “Star players” before a final when one of them inevitably breaks the defined rule.

And the afl and afl media think that is worse look than the tribunal being an absolute farce.

 

[Diehard Saint]

The AFL are too scared to acknowledge that a player can contribute to and cause their own concussion.

Frankly, a lot of concussions would be avoided if players showed more personal responsibility to their own health. Take Windy's suspension as an example - his alternative to 'bumping' was colliding with the opposition player head on and risking his own concussion. As soft as the suspension was, I so glad he put his bum there instead of his head. Some other players would rather go for the head high free than protect themselves.

Quite a lot of media saying that this suspension is overkill.
That Allir contributed to it.
Reduce to one week max, some even saying none.
I guess we’ll see.

 

[D2D3]

Quote a lot of media saying that this suspension is overkill.
That Allir contributed to it.
Reduce to one week max, some even saying none.
I guess we’ll see.

All we need is one clown to come out an say “the AFL needs to set an example” and it’s all over

 

[Diehard Saint]

Ben McEvoy

On SM-A526B using BigFooty.com mobile app

How did trading him benefit us?
It didn’t.

 

[Diehard Saint]

The one that really gets me is a player getting to a ground ball first, the second player coming in late, sliding into the first and the first player getting a free against, because ONCE a player ( Gary Rohan

23

Gary Rohan

Age

32

Ht

189cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.6

2star

K

6.6

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.5

4star

G

1.0

4star

D

8.8

2star

K

6.0

2star

HB

2.8

2star

M

3.4

3star

T

2.3

3star

G

1.0

4star

D

9.8

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

4.2

5star

G

1.2

4star

) got a broken leg from a similar incident.

The law should favour the player getting there first. The second player should have a duty of care.

 

[Broski]

If it makes you all feel better, Dougal had a great time at Liv Golf yesterday.

 

[ScrappyDo]

. They have lost control of their own game.

I honestly think they're creating a mess for the sake of having carte blanche to dictate whatever they want. The entire footy public now expect bad umpiring, bad MRO, bad tribunal.
We accept marquis players escape reporting and suspension the same as big clubs.
Like umpires evening up frees after they've already handed a win to a team, it's the illusion of propriety whilst they game becomes corrupted. SOP corporate behaviour.

 

[littlecreatures]

Yeah didn't sling him at all. He held the guy's arm and dropped his own weight to the ground to pull the bigger guy down.

The AFL need to redefine 90% of the rules. Make it so the rules are defined. If you tackle by the arm it's illegal. If you bump it's illegal etc. They are making rules up based on outcomes and making the crime fit the charge.

They are too scared to change rules in case of a backlash from purists but are using a set of rules that don't exist to suspend players.

Marshall got slung in nearly the exact same way earlier in the match. If the potential is the same as actual outcome that player should get the same charge as Higgins. They have lost control of their own game.

Absolutely agree Gringo, like we can all appreciate the intent behind limiting concussions, but it’s the inconsistency and as you say, lack of clear definitions behind what are reportable offenses.

It just seems like the AFL pick and choose easy targets to represent “community standards” that change week to week.

There’s just no real clear framework behind the MRO process that accounts for where the game is at right now.

 

[ScrappyDo]

That is by design, and happened under Demetriou and his pet lawyer Anderson (oh, the irony....).

We should be taking this to the tribunal, as manifestly unjust. And if that does not work, we should be appealing!

Another question, how long has Christian been on this gravy train with no accountability, and when is he due to be replaced? It should actually be a 3 person panel, and there should be some sort of accountability, the current system is open to massive bias, manipulation and corruption. Coincidentally, we play the team recently presided over by the current head of football this week!

The appointment of such an obvious fraud as the public face of the AFL tells the story. The whole place is rotton to the core now.

 

[Nutsngum]

I honestly think they're creating a mess for the sake of having carte blanche to dictate whatever they want. The entire footy public now expect bad umpiring, bad MRO, bad tribunal.
We accept marquis players escape reporting and suspension the same as big clubs.
Like umpires evening up frees after they've already handed a win to a team, it's the illusion of propriety whilst they game becomes corrupted. SOP corporate behaviour.

I 100% agree with this. Its an obvious tactic to stir up murky waters that everyone has to swim in to allow them to basically do anything they want.

 

[ScrappyDo]

I 100% agree with this. Its an obvious tactic to stir up murky waters that everyone has to swim in to allow them to basically do anything they want.

Occam's razor
Q. Why is every public mechanism that assures fairness seemingly in a state of perpetual disarray?
A. It's intended to be.

 

[StFly]

I 100% agree with this. Its an obvious tactic to stir up murky waters that everyone has to swim in to allow them to basically do anything they want.

Is why Dimmies and forgeries was the start of the decay.

In the before times with Adelaides entry into the then VFL to become the AFL in truth as the Bears were, lets just say, if GCS are s**t now the Bears were already dead. But, at AFL house, they actually had ideologies, they actually had means to try and professionalise, grow and expand on the game itself.

Then comes Dimmies and forgeries, and we have the start of the money for moneys sake sort of administration, instead of being sport entertainment be entertainment sport type of get up and we enter the piss of Waverley, piss off regional, piss off everything we're building Docklands and screwing over many clubs in the process sort of dealings so we can spruik 1bn in telecast deals. Meanwhile...

MRO inception.
Tribunal rethink.
Additional umpires with circular logics.
"if in the random opinion that..." enshrined as law.

And a general failure of administration such as Sirengate aka s**t sirens, s**t timekeeping, s**t umpires all rolled into one, Whispers of colluding elements swept under rugs into someone like Lethers diddling with a junior subordinate, Cousins and the eagles being generally "come here if you want the good stuff" to Mainwaring being dead due to that spiral so Snake can be caught on film sniffing later for lols. And the crux being someone like Lovett being on books for a decade whilst, assaulting, threatening, and engaging in those sort of acts almost weekly into what the Hawks are being accused of with the racial vilification instances and the Pies being strong about such association later.

Before, before it was just drunken escapades, the rando ol sniffo making the rounds but there's Lockett v Dunstall v Ablett in which KPF will boot 120 that season and 14 a match, or how someone like the maligned Lockett remains the only KPF to win a Charlie in what is now a midfielders medal, you had larger than life players who were a bit loose at times and suddenly, the King looks at his captain and shags his wife then buggers off to Adelaide to be a lame duck into rubber chicken porno AFL style!

And here we stand, a game at its core that has been basterdised oh so much where people are just treading water and everyone is just confused where each other stands on a weekly basis.

And it's why I'll take the bookie nonsense and general skullduggery of cricket & CA over this sport on a preferential scale instead, as they're front and centre with wanting to be the don and we can blame India instead of just incompetent people in charge.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

How did trading him benefit us?
It didn’t.

It all comes down to the same thing. Talent identification.

For McEvoy we got the Luke Dunstan pick and Shane Savage.
For starters it seems a pretty lame deal, considering we didn't need to trade our 24 year old ruckman.

We then traded a similarly valuable pick to get 20 year old Billy Longer.

Almost a swap for Savage and Longer.
Neither of them went on to play as long as McEvoy.

Doing deals for the sake of doing deals.
Daniel McStay was selected with the pick we paid for Longer. ( Dal Santo compensation ).
Zac Merret was the following pick.
Also available at that pick was Lobb, Nankervis, Hewett, Alex Pierce and plenty of others.
But we got Longer, despite haveing 2 years of seniors exposure to highlight his spuddedness.