Review Round 2: Collingwood 36-36 Richmond

[Gabbo64]

Exactly. Unless the camera lines up the outside of the goal post padding EXACTLY in line with the point post padding, there is no way the third umpire can adjudicate with certainty.

That would require a completely different camera situated an inch away from the existing one to provide a straight line of sight.

The third umpire should have made the “inconclusive “ call and left it to the goal umpire to use the actual line as his reference point.

If there was a camera on the thinner post (point) pointing toward the thicker post (goal) there would be a clear view. However, the camera would have to be on the edge of the padding to get a correct read. There is no way a camera on the left goal post pointing toward the right point post can give any indication of where the mark was taken. Firstly, the line between the camera and the right goal post is on an angle. Secondly, that angle continues on the other side of the right post. So that mark, in reality, would have been taken at least a foot over the line. This suggests to me that a score review can only take place when the ball passes between the goal posts only. Any other reviews are pure guesses and by definition are not certain. The AFL must either add cameras to point posts or only review on scores between the goal posts.

 

[Hazz]

Ok after dust has settled on this one I've made some notes on the game.

1. Was pleased with Cameron's debut, will be good depth player, however. Last night showed that we are still really lacking an elite tall marking option up front. Cox provides more structure up fwd and is more of a marking threat than what Cameron does, so he gets the role for me above Cameron.

2. JT's and WHE's fall in form since 2018 has been staggering. Callum Brown and Josh Daicos have both gone past them, especially Daicos, I really think this will be a breakout year for Daicos. At the moment I wouldn't want both JT and WHE in the same 22. We really missed Stevo last night, soo much more dangerous then those two.

3. I'd like to remind people that Richmond were basically at full strength whereas we were missing a good handful of best 22 players.

4. I think we were more tired than what Richmond were towards the latter half of the game, that fitness base will rise over next few weeks.

5. On that contentious decision on the goal that was awarded to Richmond, on the footage it was inconclusive whether it fully crossed or not just our bad luck on the night, filthy about that but we too missed some pretty easy you would think set shots as well.

6. How about an absolute round of applause for our amazing defence. They are ****ing amazing and are our strongest area, would be close to the best defence in the league. Should see plenty of competition for spots too from Shaz, Levi, Murph and hopefully latter in the year Langdon.

7. I didn't expect a perfect performance after few months off, we will get much better and I believe we are in the running this year up to our eyeballs.

Good rundown.

I actually thought Cameron was outstanding for his second game at the level. He took 8 marks including 4 intercept possessions. He did not get a possession in the F50 but was rarely targeted, but at least halved contests from what I could see. I feel like his lack of scoreboard impact was more due to our impotency in attack after Q1.

Agree that JT has to make way for Stevo who is many times more dangerous.

Hos, well he also would be on thin ice but I’d be more willing to stick with him for a couple more games compared to JT.

The other mildly concerning thing for me last night was Noble’s game. Thought he fumbled a lot with the ball and around the contest. Obviously he is vastly inexperienced but he really needs to clean up his DE.

I would have taken a draw if it was on offer pregame. Disappointed we could not carry on our Q1 display for longer. Whether we changed tactics or Richmond forced us to change after Q1 does not really matter, the fact that we could not gain any ascendancy after Q1 is concerning for both coaches and players.

 

[Matt_352]

Good rundown.

I actually thought Cameron was outstanding for his second game at the level. He took 8 marks including 4 intercept possessions. He did not get a possession in the F50 but was rarely targeted, but at least halved contests from what I could see. I feel like his lack of scoreboard impact was more due to our impotency in attack after Q1.

Agree that JT has to make way for Stevo who is many times more dangerous.

Hos, well he also would be on thin ice but I’d be more willing to stick with him for a couple more games compared to JT.

The other mildly concerning thing for me last night was Noble’s game. Thought he fumbled a lot with the ball and around the contest. Obviously he is vastly inexperienced but he really needs to clean up his DE.

I would have taken a draw if it was on offer pregame. Disappointed we could not carry on our Q1 display for longer. Whether we changed tactics or Richmond forced us to change after Q1 does not really matter, the fact that we could not gain any ascendancy after Q1 is concerning for both coaches and players.

Long term I see Quaynor taking Nobles role. I'd have Levi in ahead of Noble as well though

 

[itsadrizzle]

I would have taken a draw if it was on offer pregame. Disappointed we could not carry on our Q1 display for longer. Whether we changed tactics or Richmond forced us to change after Q1 does not really matter, the fact that we could not gain any ascendancy after Q1 is concerning for both coaches and players.

I think the narrative of Richmond's dominance post QTR time is overstated. They improved in the 2nd qtr but I still felt we had most of the control or atleast on even terms for most of the qtr outside of that assisted Lynch spurt. We definitely deserved more than the 14 point lead. I think if we capatalised on some real makable chances, Richmond never sniff the game. The pressure was building because we didn't make the most of our chances, i garuntee momentum swings back in our favour if we're more effective offensively.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

If there was a camera on the thinner post (point) pointing toward the thicker post (goal) there would be a clear view. However, the camera would have to be on the edge of the padding to get a correct read. There is no way a camera on the left goal post pointing toward the right point post can give any indication of where the mark was taken. Firstly, the line between the camera and the right goal post is on an angle. Secondly, that angle continues on the other side of the right post. So that mark, in reality, would have been taken at least a foot over the line. This suggests to me that a score review can only take place when the ball passes between the goal posts only. Any other reviews are pure guesses and by definition are not certain. The AFL must either add cameras to point posts or only review on scores between the goal posts.

Vision from both angles makes too much sense. Won’t happen.

 

[barrackers]

Didn't get a chance to see the game last night, but have just finished watching a replay. Maybe it's because I knew the result, but I'm a lot claimer than some of the comments I've read. Clearly both sides were short of a run, but I think it affected us more than them and I have no doubt that we'd win that match without the layoff.

• After our early success of short quick kicks the game turned largely into a one on one contest. We didn't have the legs to get the 1-2m break needed.
• I liked this short kicking game, but ideally we'd mix it up with some of the manic knock/move the footy forward style seen against the tigs in Wangaratta. Fitness again could have been an issue here.
• We also didn't have the legs to evade their tackles and with more of our shots on goal coming from 45-50m I think it impacted our scoring more too.
• These will come once we regain fitness, so in terms of our style I'm happy to take the points and move on
• Although I've never seen T. Brown played forward given his leap and burst I didn't mind the move and thought he presented well. It says we really need Stephenson back though, if he's still lacking fitness play him out of the goal square.
• Cameron was good, but at this stage he lacks the presence of Cox. I'd like to see Cameron look to move the footy on a bit quicker instead of stopping and propping behind the mark. Cox would have been a massive threat as both sides tired.
• Our defence was brilliant with only Lynch getting away.
• Howe was huge, BOG for mine.
• Callum Brown had some really clean hands in close.
• Daicos took another step with arguably his best game. He looks trimmer, but stronger.

 

[mullpig88]

Why would Brown not attempt to take the mark with 5 seconds left on the clock??

Certainly not blaming him as it was a dismal 2.5 quarters by everyone bar the defenders.... But he had the chance to mark and have a set shot to win the game but let the ball hit the deck and roll out of bounds!

Thomas and WHE would be lucky to survive. T.Brown maybe out for Wills also

 

[Pistol Night]

worst
game
ever

Brace yourself. Carlton are playing off an 8 week break yet this weekend.

 

[sr36]

Ok after dust has settled on this one I've made some notes on the game.

1. Was pleased with Cameron's debut, will be good depth player, however. Last night showed that we are still really lacking an elite tall marking option up front. Cox provides more structure up fwd and is more of a marking threat than what Cameron does, so he gets the role for me above Cameron.

2. JT's and WHE's fall in form since 2018 has been staggering. Callum Brown and Josh Daicos have both gone past them, especially Daicos, I really think this will be a breakout year for Daicos. At the moment I wouldn't want both JT and WHE in the same 22. We really missed Stevo last night, soo much more dangerous then those two.

3. I'd like to remind people that Richmond were basically at full strength whereas we were missing a good handful of best 22 players.

4. I think we were more tired than what Richmond were towards the latter half of the game, that fitness base will rise over next few weeks.

5. On that contentious decision on the goal that was awarded to Richmond, on the footage it was inconclusive whether it fully crossed or not just our bad luck on the night, filthy about that but we too missed some pretty easy you would think set shots as well.

6. How about an absolute round of applause for our amazing defence. They are ****ing amazing and are our strongest area, would be close to the best defence in the league. Should see plenty of competition for spots too from Shaz, Levi, Murph and hopefully latter in the year Langdon.

7. I didn't expect a perfect performance after few months off, we will get much better and I believe we are in the running this year up to our eyeballs.

I agree that our defenders are fabulous and our forwards unreliable, but at the same time, we flood back so hard that our structure regularly gives our defence a big numerical advantage and our forwards a big numerical disadvantage. I think we'll play in a lot of low scoring games this year.

 

[Matt_352]

I do think we have lot more upside to take out of the game than what Richmond do

 

[barrackers]

The other mildly concerning thing for me last night was Noble’s game. Thought he fumbled a lot with the ball and around the contest. Obviously he is vastly inexperienced but he really needs to clean up his DE.

With only a handful of games and one preseason there's still quite a gap between Noble's best and worst footy. I think in part he's still getting used to the step up in pace particularly against high quality opposition. Against these opponents he still tries to take the game on, but often ends up having to rush his disposal.

Long term I see Quaynor taking Nobles role. I'd have Levi in ahead of Noble as well though

With the way he moves around the footy Quaynor looks to be a midfielder long term.

 

[itsadrizzle]

Didn't get a chance to see the game last night, but have just finished watching a replay. Maybe it's because I knew the result, but I'm a lot claimer than some of the comments I've read. Clearly both sides were short of a run, but I think it affected us more than them and I have no doubt that we'd win that match without the layoff.

It is interesting that we seemed out of legs by the 3rd qtr, obvious to fans and commentators alike when all the talk in the leadup from Bucks, Pendles etc is that we had a strong fitness base and lead up, Pendles had been pretty happy with the program and how they'd be pretty primed. Goes to show that its a crazy time and even the best preperation might not be enough. But granted some of our fitness and injury prevention track record, makes me wonder if the lead up was really as effective as they think it is.

 

[JoondalupJ]

I liked the bit where Sidebottom almost had his head kicked off in the last 45 seconds on the wing and the umpire said, "play on".

Jamie Elliots mark early on?????? two doubtful frees and the camera on the goals, , fair dinkum it nearly makes you cry and you don't even follow the club you witness getting crucified, take nothing away from Richmond their guns didn't fire but the difference was without a doubt on earth that umpiring changed that game, and it shouldn't have.
But the rules as they are set at the moment and the way they are interpreted by umpires has become the norm and that is what is heartbreaking, fancy in 2020 and a camera can't make a ruling even BT was flabbergasted and Duck sort of said nothing, Bruce was calling one player as if he'd been around for 15 years when he was in his second game. Love it. But with such a bad game, you got to have a bit of adventurousness with your commentators , and if BT and Bruce are anything they are that! .

 

[barrackers]

It is interesting that we seemed out of legs by the 3rd qtr, obvious to fans and commentators alike when all the talk in the leadup from Bucks, Pendles etc is that we had a strong fitness base and lead up, Pendles had been pretty happy with the program and how they'd be pretty primed. Goes to show that its a crazy time and even the best preperation might not be enough. But granted some of our fitness and injury prevention track record, makes me wonder if the lead up was really as effective as they think it is.

I think there's a difference between being fit and having match fitness. With COVID restrictions impacting training and the ability to train in groups larger than 8 (?) it's difficult to stimulate and build that match fitness on the training track. It might be why we went conservative with Cox and Stephenson. Would an easier first up opponent have helped, perhaps. However in a shorter season if we mucked up a game against a bottom team or didn't grab a heap of percentage it could also have been detrimental. Given the circumstances I'm happy to have escaped with a draw and 2 points; in terms of the ladder we didn't gain anything on the tigs, but we didn't lose anything either.

 

[unplugged]

Commentators get a belting as much as umpires do around these parts, but I must say I'm impressed with Channel 7's ability to have Bruce and BT simultaneously commentate on a game of footy despite Bruce being at his own home in SA! You'd be forgiven for having no idea whatsoever.

 

[Mkcaptain]

Commentators get a belting as much as umpires do around these parts, but I must say I'm impressed with Channel 7's ability to have Bruce and BT simultaneously commentate on a game of footy despite Bruce being at his own home in SA! You'd be forgiven for having no idea whatsoever.

To be honest I didn't even realise that myself. But that is where my being impressed with the commentary stops

 

[sr36]

Where is that imaginary line rule written? I was always under the impression that the line is the line and the back of the goal post rule was made specifically for instances where the ball grazed the back of the post on the way through from an angle.

If the goal line was the back of the padding, surely that'd be where they'd draw the line...

 

[Carringbush2010]

Ok after dust has settled on this one I've made some notes on the game.

1. Was pleased with Cameron's debut, will be good depth player, however. Last night showed that we are still really lacking an elite tall marking option up front. Cox provides more structure up fwd and is more of a marking threat than what Cameron does, so he gets the role for me above Cameron.

2. JT's and WHE's fall in form since 2018 has been staggering. Callum Brown and Josh Daicos have both gone past them, especially Daicos, I really think this will be a breakout year for Daicos. At the moment I wouldn't want both JT and WHE in the same 22. We really missed Stevo last night, soo much more dangerous then those two.

3. I'd like to remind people that Richmond were basically at full strength whereas we were missing a good handful of best 22 players.

4. I think we were more tired than what Richmond were towards the latter half of the game, that fitness base will rise over next few weeks.

5. On that contentious decision on the goal that was awarded to Richmond, on the footage it was inconclusive whether it fully crossed or not just our bad luck on the night, filthy about that but we too missed some pretty easy you would think set shots as well.

6. How about an absolute round of applause for our amazing defence. They are ****ing amazing and are our strongest area, would be close to the best defence in the league. Should see plenty of competition for spots too from Shaz, Levi, Murph and hopefully latter in the year Langdon.

7. I didn't expect a perfect performance after few months off, we will get much better and I believe we are in the running this year up to our eyeballs.

Agreed, cept WHE - thought he was good. Took a few link up marks on the wing area between HF and HB

 

[sr36]

Agreed, cept WHE - thought he was good. Took a few link up marks on the wing area between HF and HB

Are you sure you didn't mix him up with someone else - 6 possessions, 3 marks, 0 tackles for the game. Looks a million bucks, but he's uncompetitive.

 

[Matt_352]

Agreed, cept WHE - thought he was good. Took a few link up marks on the wing area between HF and HB

I do think we need one of them in and WHE stays ahead of JT

 

[sr36]

I do think we need one of them in and WHE stays ahead of JT

I'd drop them both for Cox and Stepho. In terms of a hit up target, which is how WHE plays most weeks, he was outperformed by Cameron who deserves to keep his place.

WHE needs to be reinvented in a different role.

 

[jonmacTrag]

Hardwick would be worried about a rematch in the finals if we have a full and fit crew. They had a full crew and we were 3 or 4 down yet they still couldn't get over the line despite what seemed to be the most accommodating officiating I have seen for a while.

This is not over by a long chalk.

 

[HeavyPop]

Out of our last 17 games, we have kicked over 100 points twice and one of those was against the Gold Coast. While the game is obviously becoming far more defensive, it's pretty obvious our attack has problems. I see a lot of criticism of guys like WHE, Elliot, JT, etc but to me they just aren't getting any opportunity. I thought WHE did well last night presenting up the ground, but after 1/4 time and especially after 1/2 time, we were basically bombing the ball forward from just outside the Tigers F50.

It appears our gameplan is to flood back and then work the ball out in numbers (hence being the #1 possession team in the AFL) which is good if you can do it, but Richmond shut it down after quarter time last night and we looked clueless after that. Over possessing the ball also allows teams to get set defensively, shown by the amount of easy intercept marks Richmond took last night. At the end of the day, we probably should have won last night, but Richmond felt like the better side for 3 of the 4 quarters and by a fair margin too. If you look at how they play which is to get the ball moving forward at all costs, it's unsettling to opposition defenders because they can't set up. Compare that to the Pies where we usually handball backwards to an open man or mess around with the ball trying to find the open man which lets the opposition set up defensively or at least get numbers back.

 

[Matt_352]

Hardwick would be worried about a rematch in the finals if we have a full and fit crew. They had a full crew and we were 3 or 4 down yet they still couldn't get over the line despite what seemed to be the most accommodating officiating I have seen for a while.

This is not over by a long chalk.

Cox, Stephenson, Treloar at the very least. I rkn there's a spot for Levi as well.

 

[jonmacTrag]

Out of our last 17 games, we have kicked over 100 points twice and one of those was against the Gold Coast. While the game is obviously becoming far more defensive, it's pretty obvious our attack has problems. I see a lot of criticism of guys like WHE, Elliot, JT, etc but to me they just aren't getting any opportunity. I thought WHE did well last night presenting up the ground, but after 1/4 time and especially after 1/2 time, we were basically bombing the ball forward from just outside the Tigers F50.

It appears our gameplan is to flood back and then work the ball out in numbers (hence being the #1 possession team in the AFL) which is good if you can do it, but Richmond shut it down after quarter time last night and we looked clueless after that. Over possessing the ball also allows teams to get set defensively, shown by the amount of easy intercept marks Richmond took last night. At the end of the day, we probably should have won last night, but Richmond felt like the better side for 3 of the 4 quarters and by a fair margin too. If you look at how they play which is to get the ball moving forward at all costs, it's unsettling to opposition defenders because they can't set up. Compare that to the Pies where we usually handball backwards to an open man or mess around with the ball trying to find the open man which lets the opposition set up defensively or at least get numbers back.

Yeah and the fact that they had a full crew and we were missing 3 or 4 has nothing to do with it does it?