- Jun 4, 2016
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Collingwood had a run of horrible injuries up to 2020 or so and changed the surface. Worked wonders.
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Injury Russell your feathers - discuss all things high performance; injury lists, Marvel surface, curse from the gods and Andrew Russell
- Thread starter ferrisb
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- Sep 5, 2011
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I can walk and chew gum. Weekend game was great, and our third quarter surge is a positive sign of our fitness. At the same time, our injury concerns are not ideal, and we had almost all of our depth players perform well - this is not something we can bank on.
High performance should align with constant performance assessment - and this includes criticism in areas we are less successful
Didn't the surface at Ikon Park get changed in 2018?
Only 17 coaches votes out of a possible 20. Dropped 3 he shouldn't have - sakc Russell.
JustOneTime
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Um. Walsh has missed the start of the last two seasons. There is no kudos to hand around.
Every player cited Walsh as the hardest trainer this off-season (a few on camera). Where was the load mgmt given his back injury history.
It's probably more Walsh's dedication than anything else that explains his return. Maybe this third time around they gave him more time to be ready/fresh...is it innovation on the third try to sustain player durability?
- Apr 7, 2006
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This is the problem as I see it. Load management. At this point the argument is over as we've gone even harder in preseason and we're 6 games in and the injury list stands at 14-16 depending on weit / Williams and how you classify Durdin.
Nobody is saying sack Russell but the weight of evidence suggests either he can't balance the loads of the players or there are others within the club overruling him. Whether that is coaches or the players themselves.
Those persisting with the "haha we should sack Russell" comments - couldn't look much dumber with 14+ sitting on the injury list.
A stunning return
From all of us, as casual observers, Walsh's single mindedness and drive to prepare himself to return would be unquestionable, but could also be viewed as pushing himself too hard
Great to have him back
Surely you're not suggesting we should stop debating this very important topic, by dismissing a different point of view
But I'm still curious as to what inside information you're privy to, by claiming we went harder and or over the top with workloads this preseason
You know all too well that many have stated they wanted Russell gone, only to backflip backend of last year, but doubled down again now
Wondering how one would feel about this statement if that number is less than 10 in under 24 hours time
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- Jun 4, 2016
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Doesn't mean they made it better.
JustaBattler
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Carlton can run 4 quarters of football out - this was achieved on the back of ?
The cost of getting players up to that level of competitive fitness is injuries and strains in getting the bodies up to competitive scratch.
Train harder than you have to play is something coaches and players in successful teams have known for decades.
Creating a list that has all players bodies AFL capable is a bit of science and a lot of luck..
Therefore I'd rather back Voss's mantra of a next man up and a list of 30 genuine AFL quality players as the point of focus - rather than pointing fingers at people I have no idea wether they are good or not that is inside club IP.
Marchbank | Cuningham | Martin ( add Williams ) in particular we know of as being probably not AFL quality bodies - the list is being constantly refreshed and rebuilt - right now for the first time in 2 decades Carlton is enjoying the ability to actually develop players in VFL it is an amazing and exciting development which should put the Club in a position of sustainable finals.
The cost of getting players up to that level of competitive fitness is injuries and strains in getting the bodies up to competitive scratch.
Train harder than you have to play is something coaches and players in successful teams have known for decades.
Creating a list that has all players bodies AFL capable is a bit of science and a lot of luck..
Therefore I'd rather back Voss's mantra of a next man up and a list of 30 genuine AFL quality players as the point of focus - rather than pointing fingers at people I have no idea wether they are good or not that is inside club IP.
Marchbank | Cuningham | Martin ( add Williams ) in particular we know of as being probably not AFL quality bodies - the list is being constantly refreshed and rebuilt - right now for the first time in 2 decades Carlton is enjoying the ability to actually develop players in VFL it is an amazing and exciting development which should put the Club in a position of sustainable finals.
Considering we were 3 goals shy of a Grand Final last year could be a factor of players pushing themselves super hard over pre-season (competition for spots) to get back to prelim and make up for it.
Clearly Voss sees we're in the window and has been building us up to be like the Lions were in his 4GF in a row dynasty, hard running, physical and honest. Problem was back in Voss' day no interchange limits existed so certain susceptible players could be rested more frequently in shorter bursts when required. I'd imagine we'd see McGov, Martin, Saad, Cunners, Cerra and Marchbank being rotated more often particularly after numerous sprints to get a rub down and such.
I've said previously I'd be factoring footy IQ and physical resilience/genetics as priority factors for the bulk of future recruiting. For todays game is a grind and players like Diesel who were resilient physically with a huge IQ didn't need speed or size to dominate.
Clearly Voss sees we're in the window and has been building us up to be like the Lions were in his 4GF in a row dynasty, hard running, physical and honest. Problem was back in Voss' day no interchange limits existed so certain susceptible players could be rested more frequently in shorter bursts when required. I'd imagine we'd see McGov, Martin, Saad, Cunners, Cerra and Marchbank being rotated more often particularly after numerous sprints to get a rub down and such.
I've said previously I'd be factoring footy IQ and physical resilience/genetics as priority factors for the bulk of future recruiting. For todays game is a grind and players like Diesel who were resilient physically with a huge IQ didn't need speed or size to dominate.
We are the fittest team in the comp tick russel. Even a greater achievement given we lack a bit of pace.
Most of the injuries are to players who are injury prone, older or due to collision.
Most of the injuries are to players who are injury prone, older or due to collision.
- Mar 1, 2005
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Yes . But the other example is the Tigers, who put that same pressure on, but remained able to have a very fit list
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Recency bias is a hard thing to overcome. A lot are still shell shocked from the pathetic midseason slump of 2023. If we get through the next 5 matches with our reputation intact then a lot more will become true believers imo
- May 1, 2016
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The tigers didn't set up to win clearances where we do, and they set up their entire plan around negating drive off half back and through midfield via playing 6 defensive smalls across the entirety of the forward half and wings.
We don't play that way, and our positioning is wrong to do so.
Tigers game plan was more kamikaze and swarm forward and they had brutes like Martin at his prime, Cotchin and complimentary nuggets and brutes in Caddy and Prestia also all at their peak. With a very stable forward line and defence balanced well. Tigers like Pies of 2010/11 weren't the most talented list just workmanlike ethos, peaked at the right time with the fortune of having bugger all injuries.
Lets also realise from 2021 their luck started to run out with Prestia, Martin, Lynch, Cotchin succumbing to various niggles as a few of their other players did. Was it all a factor of trying to maintain the rage and push on after 4 years on top and high performance kept pushing them?
All I can fathom is that competition for spots drives standards up and we now have a lot of players that have proven capable 22/23 thanks to injury so in theory we could have 32 players on any given round be in the line up. Keeps the list honest and competitive but also can push players too far to the edge, fatigue, soreness and what comes of that is a twang or not thinking straight and not timing a stride or a leap to well, or going to hard in a tackle and coming worse off.
Lets also realise from 2021 their luck started to run out with Prestia, Martin, Lynch, Cotchin succumbing to various niggles as a few of their other players did. Was it all a factor of trying to maintain the rage and push on after 4 years on top and high performance kept pushing them?
All I can fathom is that competition for spots drives standards up and we now have a lot of players that have proven capable 22/23 thanks to injury so in theory we could have 32 players on any given round be in the line up. Keeps the list honest and competitive but also can push players too far to the edge, fatigue, soreness and what comes of that is a twang or not thinking straight and not timing a stride or a leap to well, or going to hard in a tackle and coming worse off.
- Apr 7, 2006
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It is round 6. We have 14+ on the injury list. It's the same every year.
- Jun 4, 2016
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We're 5-1 and fitter than every team we play. What about this is the same as anything from the last 25 years.
Calm your farm, was a light-hearted comment, and a lot of what you've written just looks like speculation and assumption to me.
Walsh's injury is a really serious one that can be extremely debilitating. For all you know, he may have been managed exceptionally well - with lesser management maybe he misses an even larger chunk of the season? Or the whole year?
We don't know. Unless you work in the sports fitness area and/or down at the club?
So Wilson, Akuei, Weitering, Williams miss this week?
If it's the same as every year, we'll have most of our best players come the pointy end of the year
But happy to review it every Tuesday with you
My concern moving forward for the season is if the perennially injured 5 of Marchbank, Cunners, McGov, Martin and Zac are all fit do we play them all? Personally no.
Statistically speaking there is a high risk at minimum one of those will get injured and subbed out during the game, then most likely if one of those at risk get a knock (like Zac to the achilles, Marchbank to the knee, etc) we have become cautious and will bench them for either the game or take 10-15 minutes to assess leaving our bench and rotations short for a period.
We also have risks now with players like Saad, Walsh and Cerra that if during the game they get hammy tightness or back soreness we will not risk them taking further part in the game.
Sadly due to the liability if all 5 are available and we have our depth players available in their spots I will not be playing Marchbank or Cunners. Martin at the moment won't even be available till like round 12-13 so I'd give him a couple VFL games and see how he pulls up and pray he's fit and firing towards the last 5 rounds and finals.
We can live without Marchbank, Cunners and Zac if our depth for them is fit. McGov and Martin structurally and with their IQ are vital components. And of course Saad, Walsh and Cerra will play if fit but I'd love to start resting key sore players when possible once the injury list shrinks. So happy to give Kemp a week respite when Marchbank is fit, etc.
Statistically speaking there is a high risk at minimum one of those will get injured and subbed out during the game, then most likely if one of those at risk get a knock (like Zac to the achilles, Marchbank to the knee, etc) we have become cautious and will bench them for either the game or take 10-15 minutes to assess leaving our bench and rotations short for a period.
We also have risks now with players like Saad, Walsh and Cerra that if during the game they get hammy tightness or back soreness we will not risk them taking further part in the game.
Sadly due to the liability if all 5 are available and we have our depth players available in their spots I will not be playing Marchbank or Cunners. Martin at the moment won't even be available till like round 12-13 so I'd give him a couple VFL games and see how he pulls up and pray he's fit and firing towards the last 5 rounds and finals.
We can live without Marchbank, Cunners and Zac if our depth for them is fit. McGov and Martin structurally and with their IQ are vital components. And of course Saad, Walsh and Cerra will play if fit but I'd love to start resting key sore players when possible once the injury list shrinks. So happy to give Kemp a week respite when Marchbank is fit, etc.
- Nov 27, 2016
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JustOneTime
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I have just calmed my farm. My comment was also light hearted like yours. Internet.
BTW, the argument, 'for all you know' also applies to anything you say on this forum. Not just my posts. It's a great way to discredit a poster's point of view but the trouble with it it pretty much discounts the original poster's views too. This is also light hearted.
For all of their challenging years!! it’s only this year their injury list has turned to the pits to mirror ours
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