Coach Is Clarkson a supercoach or did he just get lucky at the Hawks? Has his time come and gone?

[fnerd]

so when clarko was winning premierships at the hawks it was due to
“”Genius” but now at northz it’s cos he doesn’t have the players?

Nah it’s always been the players , it’s why he went so hard cap in hand for draft concessions last year and why he ll do it again this year

 

[Rob]

You can't coach s**t to premierships.

 

[sexyhunk]

i have to say is a yes to the second part of the question. The first part is he wasn't lucky, can't luck your way to multiple flags.

 

[SSSSSS]

Yes he is a supercoach.
Yes his time has come and gone.

 

[Kobe Gryant]

He's won two flags and kept you relevant for a decade 69% wins over a long period is almost unheard of. He's been a master.

Clarko hasn't been relevant since 2016.

Reckon two things can be true here. Calling him out for what he is now doesn't have to fly in the face of what he was in the past, and vice versa.

He has been a great coach in the past, arguably the best of all time...but it's possible the games past him by and he's just middle of the pack these days.

We don't hold Malthouse & Pagans Carlton years against them. Even someone like Rocket at the Suns.

You can be great at a period in time, but everybody has a use-by date. A bit like Malthouse/Eade, I'm not sure if Clarkos personality fits with coaching a bunch of Gen Z kids, either.

 

[Handsuper47]

He is a supercoach, OP is just trying to make poor bait because North aren't good at the moment. You can't fool me.

 

[SSSSSS]

He is a supercoach, OP is just trying to make poor bait because North aren't good at the moment. You can't fool me.

He was a supercoach.

He's absolutely rinsing North out of a million + dollars a year.

 

[NetworkNerd]

I don't think North has been close to favourites in any game so far. Which game did the OP expect North to be competitive in/win?

But they have some good young kids and with Larkey around it's something to build a future on

 

[Rod Stroker]

I don't put our current predicament all at Clarko's feet. Our issues have been evident for years long before he got there:
List Management (Rawlings has been terrible)
Development (Brown was moved on last year, should have been earlier)

 

[Run n Spread]

Like most things in life the truth is somewhere in the middle.
No doubt great tactically (best I've seen) but had good team and coaches around him and lightening rarely strikes twice.
Bloody hard comp now to get going in.
Still early days at North.
Bigger issue I reckon is the rate the comp has split in 2.

 

[Biggy_Boy]

I assume you are not getting too excited about belting North at the moment. Almost like watching paint dry

I'm tired of poorly managed clubs like North being allowed to continue to operate within the league with little consequence. If they continue how they're going so far this year, it will 5 years in the bottom 2 of the ladder. That is absolutely ridiculous. And before that they were just mediocre for about two decades.

Yes, my side loves to thrash them, but so does everyone else. They're just there as percentage boosters, and given the uneven fixture, it's unfair because some teams get to play them twice. It's like when the expansion sides came in and playing GC/GWS felt unfair because they didn't seem like real AFL sides. That's what North is like now. Tired of AFL teams being allowed to be s**t for so long with the club taking no responsibility for it, just asking for more draft capital hand-outs and coaching appointments from the AFL.

Tasmania shouldn't be a brand new side. Should have pushed the Roos there. If they want to beg for more draft picks, they should have to agree to relocation.

It's not just about fairness of the competition but also fan engagement. You've got one side here that is absolutely pitiful for 5 years straight and not much good before that either. How many existing fans are dropping off and how many potential lost because the side can't get itself to be competitive? It results in footy fans being further concentrated towards particular franchises rather than being more diversified.

So frustrating, too, that the club and its supporters will blame everything beyond their control. We don't have the players or the coaches or the picks or the big games or the money. Why not turn your attention inward and push the club to drive some standards? Plenty of clubs can remain competitive for years without needing to sit on the bottom of the ladder for years and ask for handouts endlessly, and those clubs don't always have the best access to talent or the best of everything either.

 

[Blue1980]

I'm tired of poorly managed clubs like North being allowed to continue to operate within the league with little consequence. If they continue how they're going so far this year, it will 5 years in the bottom 2 of the ladder. That is absolutely ridiculous. And before that they were just mediocre for about two decades.

Yes, my side loves to thrash them, but so does everyone else. They're just there as percentage boosters, and given the uneven fixture, it's unfair because some teams get to play them twice. It's like when the expansion sides came in and playing GC/GWS felt unfair because they didn't seem like real AFL sides. That's what North is like now. Tired of AFL teams being allowed to be s**t for so long with the club taking no responsibility for it, just asking for more draft capital hand-outs and coaching appointments from the AFL.

Tasmania shouldn't be a brand new side. Should have pushed the Roos there. If they want to beg for more draft picks, they should have to agree to relocation.

It's not just about fairness of the competition but also fan engagement. You've got one side here that is absolutely pitiful for 5 years straight and not much good before that either. How many existing fans are dropping off and how many potential lost because the side can't get itself to be competitive? It results in footy fans being further concentrated towards particular franchises rather than being more diversified.

So frustrating, too, that the club and its supporters will blame everything beyond their control. We don't have the players or the coaches or the picks or the big games or the money. Why not turn your attention inward and push the club to drive some standards? Plenty of clubs can remain competitive for years without needing to sit on the bottom of the ladder for years and ask for handouts endlessly, and those clubs don't always have the best access to talent or the best of everything either.

When you have the playing list blow up it’s very hard to get back and takes a long time.

Happens when too much topping up happens and experienced players become cooked sooner than expected.

 

[kaiserchief13]

Don’t really agree with that, hawks beat Freo at subi in 2015 prelim.

If all things were equal which ones should have been hosted by interstate sides? 2015 I know but any of the other 2?

Both 2013 and 2015 Hawthorn finished lower than Sydney and West Coast. 2015 Hawthorn also lost qf to WC

 

[rye]

pretty clear hes coaching to top up the retirement fund rather than out of any interest in the job at this point

 

[Gazza Greatness]

The 'repeated short kicking' by North today is total BS and is no way to teach a young and inexperienced team to play footy no matter how good these kids may or may not potentially be...... Clarko's coaching at present is a effen disgrace.

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

Both 2013 and 2015 Hawthorn finished lower than Sydney and West Coast. 2015 Hawthorn also lost qf to WC

You’re confusing 2013 with 2014

 

[kaiserchief13]

You’re confusing 2013 with 2014

That I am

 

[rapidfire7]

He won 4 Premierships in 8 years. Surely no one can be that lucky. The man can coach!

To me, he looks like a man who is carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders.

He has obviously had his fair share of off field dramas in recent years, and they appear to have really taken a toll.

Worn out, tired and above all lacking motivation for the cause is what I'm sensing.

Just seems like his heart isn't in it anymore.

 

[allrighty]

Yes he is a supercoach.
Yes his time has come and gone.

Agree, great coach but seems to be dialing it in now.

 

[windyhill]

Two new teams being bedded in. It was a good time to be good, bad time to be bad. Hawks took full advantage.

 

[Jeremias]

Fantastic coach, clearly one of the greatest we have ever seen, if not the greatest. But he is not a miracle worker.

Let's not fall victim to recency bias or try and diminish his achievements as nothing more than 'getting lucky' simply because he's coaching one of the worst sides many of us have ever seen.

Instead, let's recognize there is often a clear link between the success or perceived quality of a coach, and the quality of cattle at his or her disposal.

What is possible, however, is that coaches fall out of touch with the game. What made a coach successful once, will not always ensure continued success. Just as the game passes players by, the same can be said for coaches.

I am not saying that is the case with Clarkson - see my point above re: quality at his disposal as the major determinant here - but it may well also be a factor.

 

[PenfoldsFan]

Until now, Clarko was the master of perfect timing.
Walked into a Premiership team at Centrals and won 1 of 10 that the core group achieved with the Gowans Brothers his on field Generals.
Walked into Port as Choco's assistant when we finally put it together against an ageing Lions and won a flag and then walked into a struggling Hawthorn that had, through poor finishing position, been in a position to draft Mitchell, Lewis, Hodge, Roughead and the best forward of the modern era, Franklin.

He doesn"t get any of that at North.

I said when he was appointed, that North should have been looking to sure up their week by week results by trading in or drafting mature or proven KPP ahead of taking kids that show a bit against other kids that might one day do the same as men against men, and was laughed at.

I feel sorry for the kids who, through a false belief that Clarko is the messiah that will take them to the promised land, have committed long term to a club that will never be more than an average side at best before Clarko calls time.

And whilst people slammed JHF for how he played his hand as an 18yr old kid, which wasn't necessarily right in many minds at the time, as every week passes his decision becomes more and more understandable.

 

[Mr Magic]

I'm tired of poorly managed clubs like North being allowed to continue to operate within the league with little consequence. If they continue how they're going so far this year, it will 5 years in the bottom 2 of the ladder. That is absolutely ridiculous. And before that they were just mediocre for about two decades.

Yes, my side loves to thrash them, but so does everyone else. They're just there as percentage boosters, and given the uneven fixture, it's unfair because some teams get to play them twice. It's like when the expansion sides came in and playing GC/GWS felt unfair because they didn't seem like real AFL sides. That's what North is like now. Tired of AFL teams being allowed to be s**t for so long with the club taking no responsibility for it, just asking for more draft capital hand-outs and coaching appointments from the AFL.

Tasmania shouldn't be a brand new side. Should have pushed the Roos there. If they want to beg for more draft picks, they should have to agree to relocation.

It's not just about fairness of the competition but also fan engagement. You've got one side here that is absolutely pitiful for 5 years straight and not much good before that either. How many existing fans are dropping off and how many potential lost because the side can't get itself to be competitive? It results in footy fans being further concentrated towards particular franchises rather than being more diversified.

So frustrating, too, that the club and its supporters will blame everything beyond their control. We don't have the players or the coaches or the picks or the big games or the money. Why not turn your attention inward and push the club to drive some standards? Plenty of clubs can remain competitive for years without needing to sit on the bottom of the ladder for years and ask for handouts endlessly, and those clubs don't always have the best access to talent or the best of everything either.

I think North have never been this uncompetitive in the sense the way they play they can never win. They live in their backline.

They where better under Scott and others, at the moment they are calling the fans and audience mugs

They are so woeful some of the players surely would entertain leaving. Powell and SHeezel are going okay individually, but in terms of game plan, they are never even looking likely to be in it. It looks like the intensity from the players is dropping and their minds as well as their hearts will start wandering shortly

 

[Leon]

Definitely lucky. Got gifted home grand finals against non Vic teams when they finished the season lower on the ladder. Would not have won 2013 or 2015 without the undeserved advantage

????

Hawthorn finished top of the ladder in 2013.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Couple of factors

Anybody in any walk of life who has great success - basically always has a good degree of fortune, circumstance and lucky timing that separate them from others.

Of course they are very smart and are good operators - you’d be stupid to argue otherwise - but there’s always other smart and good operators who don’t get the same success.

Anybody who doesn’t credit fortune and fate in major success is kidding themselves.

Secondly, things move on… footy moves on quickly… Clarkson started at Hawthorn 20 years ago which is not a short period. Sheedy was a brilliant 4-time premiership coach and he probably started to lose it around 2002.

I have no doubt Clarkson is still the smart, canny operator he always was. Question is will he get some luck, and is he able to move with the times.