Discussion 2024 General AFL Discussion

[gringo2011]

I see that some people still bag out our 2020 trade period where we brought in Butler, Hill, Howard, Jones and Ryder.

I still think that set us on the right path. Without senior leaders you end up like North Melbourne.

People are talking about West Coast having already rebuilt. Yes Reid looks unbelievable but the reason they're better is they have good senior players back playing well. North have a chasm in that area. Must be depressing being a North supporter at the moment.

Yeah nah. If we'd got Serong instead of a bunch of GOPs we would've gone backwards short term but probably have a much better youth brigade. It was another bad misread of where we were and designed to save face not win a flag. It was a disaster and luckily that dickhead Lethlean is out of the club. We got rid of a similar lot of GOPs for FA and replaced them with very slight upgrades at maximum cost.

North ****ed up because they ditched 15 players in one off season. It was a very deliberate bottom out.

 

[Remboy]

How good is footy. We lose by 10 goals to a fellow struggler.

Then get to watch Essendon, Collingwood, Geelong and Carlton all win.

To top it off, West Coast are now only percentage behind us on the ladder. Their number 1 draft pick is exactly what we've been crying out for in the middle and is already dominating games.

All whilst we sit here and whinge about how Phillipou is underperforming, Owens can't hit the side of a barn, King is a prima donna and we don't have a functioning midfield or forwardline.

How good is footy?

If you change the names of the players that could be just about every year lol. Go Saints!

 

[beside the seaside]

Yeah nah. If we'd got Serong instead of a bunch of GOPs we would've gone backwards short term but probably have a much better youth brigade. It was another bad misread of where we were and designed to save face not win a flag. It was a disaster and luckily that dickhead Lethlean is out of the club. We got rid of a similar lot of GOPs for FA and replaced them with very slight upgrades at maximum cost.

North ****ed up because they ditched 15 players in one off season. It was a very deliberate bottom out.

Nah the idea was to get competitive again. Of course Serong would be great but he's one player. Would way rather be where we are than where North are right now.

 

[BrutThough]

Nah the idea was to get competitive again. Of course Serong would be great but he's one player. Would way rather be where we are than where North are right now.

Because we played badly, it's easier to imagine that everything on the road not taken would have been rosier and successful while declaring everything we did as a disaster despite many good things happening from bringing in those players.

 

[gringo2011]

Nah the idea was to get competitive again. Of course Serong would be great but he's one player. Would way rather be where we are than where North are right now.

We were never going to do a North though. That was a deliberate self inflicted cut. I think we paid a huge amount for a good year in 2020 that went nowhere. Lethlean wasted another few years on the wrong path. Who knows what we look like now if we'd gone for kids over topping up but I reckon it would be closer to a flag that we are now and with a better youth core. Howard, Butler and Snags haven't been the difference and getting something out of Hill now hasn't really justified the cost in trade and wages.

If Windhager and Owens hadn't landed in our laps we might have still been on that path to nowhere. The best thing Lyon has done is shed some of the charlatans that were stealing a wage while making bad decisions.

 

[gringo2011]

Because we played badly, it's easier to imagine that everything on the road not taken would have been rosier and successful while declaring everything we did as a disaster despite many good things happening from bringing in those players.

There aren't anyways to cheat your way out of doing the hard yards. There is plenty of evidence of sides trying to avoid building the foundations before adding the roofing and they don't seem to work. If you've got a great core and system you can be on a constant cycle of bringing in kids and maintaining position. We did it backwards. We have to finding and replacing mid career players while bringing in kids to make up for short falls still.

We need elite talent to make a jump now and the best way to get those is from the bottom of the ladder at the draft. If they aren't already on the list we need to find away to get some still.

 

[BrutThough]

There aren't anyways to cheat your way out of doing the hard yards. There is plenty of evidence of sides trying to avoid building the foundations before adding the roofing and they don't seem to work. If you've got a great core and system you can be on a constant cycle of bringing in kids and maintaining position. We did it backwards. We have to finding and replacing mid career players while bringing in kids to make up for short falls still.

We need elite talent to make a jump now and the best way to get those is from the bottom of the ladder at the draft. If they aren't already on the list we need to find away to get some still.

Is it cheating or it's using all available list building mechanisms to fill immediate holes on your list and support the other players we have?

 

[gringo2011]

Is it cheating or it's using all available list building mechanisms to fill immediate holes on your list and support the other players we have?

We hadn't done the ground work still. Supporting Billings, Membrey and Webster wasn't what was needed. We needed to get drafting right for a few years in a row like we are now. I was saying it then, it's not hindsight.

 

[beside the seaside]

We hadn't done the ground work still. Supporting Billings, Membrey and Webster wasn't what was needed. We needed to get drafting right for a few years in a row like we are now. I was saying it then, it's not hindsight.

Well Freo got Serong, also Cerra, Brayshaw. Where are they at?

 

[gringo2011]

Well Freo got Serong, also Cerra, Brayshaw. Where are they at?

Ahead of us right now after a bad year last year. They have some really good kids coming through and siting mid table like us. If you keep getting quality in eventually you'll rise up the ladder. The Dogs have a great list now and for the future, so do Gold Coast. West coast has had a really good draft pick and he's changed momentum for club that's won six games in 3 years.

Freo also went backwards to go forward and will get reward for it if they draft and trade well like any side. If they botch it they will get stuck like us.

The danger for us is that we keep trying to top up with limited talent instead of taking kids, It gives a boost for a year or two but it just perpetuates mediocrity. You might find a few stars against the flow of the system but you need a lot of luck and quality talent spotting.

 

[BrutThough]

We hadn't done the ground work still. Supporting Billings, Membrey and Webster wasn't what was needed. We needed to get drafting right for a few years in a row like we are now. I was saying it then, it's not hindsight.

But there is always an element of hindsight to it.

After the season 2019, everyone would have been happy drafting King, using picks 7+8 on Clark/Coffield wasn't controversial with them both going on to have their best years in 2020. Battle and Marshall were showing signs from the 2016 draft while Gresh hadn't had a single injury yet and was looking like that potential A grade fwd/mid we needed. Those were the players we were supporting and had high hopes for at the time.

 

[gringo2011]

But there is always an element of hindsight to it.

After the season 2019, everyone would have been happy drafting King, using picks 7+8 on Clark/Coffield wasn't controversial with them both going on to have their best years in 2020. Battle and Marshall were showing signs from the 2016 draft while Gresh hadn't had a single injury yet and was looking like that potential A grade fwd/mid we needed. Those were the players we were supporting and had high hopes for at the time.

I don't really care what we thought, the paid professionals had zero KPIs and kept their jobs. If you are basing all your future success around a few unproven players you are in trouble. I think we were trying to hide from a second consecutive failed rebuild and topped up to scrape into finals as a sugar hit to keep the fans on side.

I don't think a lot of long term vision was happening at that time. It was all treading water hoping for a miracle. Essendon did it too, kept grabbing at shiny things trying to find a way out of the dead end.

 

[Mat Mann]

I don't really care what we thought, the paid professionals had zero KPIs and kept their jobs. If you are basing all your future success around a few unproven players you are in trouble. I think we were trying to hide from a second consecutive failed rebuild and topped up to scrape into finals as a sugar hit to keep the fans on side.

I don't think a lot of long term vision was happening at that time. It was all treading water hoping for a miracle. Essendon did it too, kept grabbing at shiny things trying to find a way out of the dead end.

I think the AFL had an influence in that happening too

 

[beside the seaside]

Ahead of us right now after a bad year last year. They have some really good kids coming through and siting mid table like us. If you keep getting quality in eventually you'll rise up the ladder. The Dogs have a great list now and for the future, so do Gold Coast. West coast has had a really good draft pick and he's changed momentum for club that's won six games in 3 years.

Freo also went backwards to go forward and will get reward for it if they draft and trade well like any side. If they botch it they will get stuck like us.

The danger for us is that we keep trying to top up with limited talent instead of taking kids, It gives a boost for a year or two but it just perpetuates mediocrity. You might find a few stars against the flow of the system but you need a lot of luck and quality talent spotting.

I'm not so sure, I think having no good senior players is what perpetuates mediocrity. We have improved since we got those players in, and there's no guarantee that if we had picked kids that year we'd be any better or any more on track.

 

[my name was taken]

I think we were trying to hide from a second consecutive failed rebuild and topped up to scrape into finals as a sugar hit to keep the fans on side.
.

Exactly this,

'road to 2018' oh s**t moment by the club.

That and 2 consecutive coaches treading water screaming please don't sack leading to short term goals over long term

 

[gringo2011]

I think the AFL had an influence in that happening too

Lethlean would have been sent from head office to clean up our mess.

 

[gringo2011]

I'm not so sure, I think having no good senior players is what perpetuates mediocrity. We have improved since we got those players in, and there's no guarantee that if we had picked kids that year we'd be any better or any more on track.

In that case why bother drafting at all. Maybe we should chase old guys for the next few years.

 

[Brian Oblivion]

Lethlean would have been sent from head office to clean up our mess.

via getting the flick from HQ but I still agree with you mate

 

[Mat Mann]

Lethlean would have been sent from head office to clean up our mess.

not only that but we were put on short notice to improve our finances, we couldn't afford to enter another full rebuild, only real option was top up and be semi-competitive for a while

 

[gringo2011]

not only that but we were put on short notice to improve our finances, we couldn't afford to enter another full rebuild, only real option was top up and be semi-competitive for a while

Doubt that. They would have told us to get our s**t together. I remember talk at the time was that they were concerned with our direction.

 

[Brian Oblivion]

Doubt that. They would have told us to get our s**t together. I remember talk at the time was that they were concerned with our direction.

Agree. Also did you know that raincoat is an anagram of Croatia ?

 

[austinnn]

Agree. Also did you know that raincoat is an anagram of Croatia ?

Croatian surely?

 

[Brian Oblivion]

Croatian surely?

Glad someone is paying attention around here.

 

[ScrappyDo]

Yeah nah. If we'd got Serong instead of a bunch of GOPs we would've gone backwards short term but probably have a much better youth brigade. It was another bad misread of where we were and designed to save face not win a flag. It was a disaster and luckily that dickhead Lethlean is out of the club. We got rid of a similar lot of GOPs for FA and replaced them with very slight upgrades at maximum cost.

North ****ed up because they ditched 15 players in one off season. It was a very deliberate bottom out.

We'd have taken McAsey anyway.

 

[Mat Mann]

Doubt that. They would have told us to get our s**t together. I remember talk at the time was that they were concerned with our direction.

AFL calls on Saints to lift financial game​

AFL chief executive Gillon McLachlan says the Saints must show financial improvement.​

Days out from St Kilda's return home to Moorabbin, the AFL has warned they must get their house in order.

The Saints will move into their new facilities this month, in time for the start of the season.

St Kilda's unsuccessful move from Moorabbin to bayside Seaford, near Frankston, lasted less than a decade.


While they are celebrating the return to Moorabbin and also now have a better deal at their Etihad Stadium home ground, the AFL wants to see financial results.

The Saints, Brisbane and Port Adelaide are the three clubs carrying the heaviest debt.

AFL chief executive Gillon McLachlan said St Kilda's bad debt runs at more than $10 million.

"St Kilda have dealt with a whole series of challenges, but it's incumbent on them now to get their P and L (profit and loss) working," McLachlan said.

"They have to get their business to work now."

The Saints are also about to start a pivotal season on the field, with club legends Nick Riewoldt and Leigh Montagna newly-retired.

They finished 11th last year, a game plus percentage outside the top eight.

While there were some strong signs, topped by their round-16 mauling of eventual premiers Richmond, they were too inconsistent.

The Saints have not made the finals since 2011, Ross Lyon's last season as their coach.

Overall, McLachlan said the 18 clubs had made strong progress with bad debt, reducing it by about $10 million last year to $50 million.

He has confidence that the Lions are turning their fortunes around and praised the work of coach Chris Fagan and football manager David Noble.

not suggesting the AFL told us the direction to take, but seeing as how little we put into the footy Dept, the AFL pressuring us financially, hardly a big jump to see the direction we took