List Mgmt. “It’s a form of tanking” the Richmond rebuild

[juss]

The bolded is the obvious reason they happily traded back this season. If there was an elite bunch at the top end they wouldn’t have entertained missing out on one.

It’s supposed to be an incredibly even crop. Even seen the potential no1 pick as low as pick 7 on some phantom lists (Sam lailor) which gives you an idea how even the bunch is. You could pick any of them and there isn’t much in it probably the first 20 picks.

It’s not the sort of draft you are going to get a riewoldt judd Martin from

Martin wasn't considered as good as Scully or Trengove. Judd wasn't considered as good as Ball or Hodge.

Where were Selwood and Bartel taken? What about Dangerfield?

I've said it so many times, at this stage these players could become anything, we simply don't know how they'll project but it's laughable the blanket statements now of what clubs will or won't find in this draft.

We might get a dud crop or multiple greats in this draft, like all things most likely it'll sit somewhere in between two extremes.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Martin wasn't considered as good as Scully or Trengove. Judd wasn't considered as good as Ball or Hodge.

Where were Selwood and Bartel taken? What about Dangerfield?

I've said it so many times, at this stage these players could become anything, we simply don't know how they'll project but it's laughable the blanket statements now of what clubs will or won't find in this draft.

We might get a dud crop or multiple greats in this draft, like all things most likely it'll sit somewhere in between two extremes.

All I am saying is what we know about this crop now. It’s been called an even draft that is also a deep draft. It lacks also elite top end talent with an even spread across the first round. You could throw a blanket over the top 7 and call any of their names out for the no1 pick and it would be acceptable this season.

There is no daicos Horne Francis Walsh judd types in this drafts top end.

 

[Grrr]

There are no generational talents in this pool or elites

That's a bit of a stretch. Nobody knows how good Lalor is going to be. Right now and probably never going to be as good as Reid, but he is one out of the box.

Nobody ever thought Bont or Cripps were going to be the players they were. Similar types to Langford and Smillie, who are both far better credentialled that Cripps was at the same age. Lachie Neale. FOS to me looks very talented. There is plenty of top end talent in this draft.

 

[Dr Tigris]

That's a bit of a stretch. Nobody knows how good Lalor is going to be. Right now and probably never going to be as good as Reid, but he is one out of the box.

Nobody ever thought Bont or Cripps were going to be the players they were. Similar types to Langford and Smillie, who are both far better credentialled that Cripps was at the same age. Lachie Neale. FOS to me looks very talented. There is plenty of top end talent in this draft.

Waste of time engaging. Especially with logic, reason and fact.

 

[juss]

All I am saying is what we know about this crop now. It’s been called an even draft that is also a deep draft. It lacks also elite top end talent with an even spread across the first round. You could throw a blanket over the top 7 and call any of their names out for the no1 pick and it would be acceptable this season.

There is no daicos Horne Francis Walsh judd types in this drafts top end.

Yeh, when they're 18, that's perfectly fine and there's litters of examples of junior ratings being taken with a grain of salt compared to what players will or won't become.

No one's drafting for their output right now.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

That's a bit of a stretch. Nobody knows how good Lalor is going to be. Right now and probably never going to be as good as Reid, but he is one out of the box.

Nobody ever thought Bont or Cripps were going to be the players they were. Similar types to Langford and Smillie, who are both far better credentialled that Cripps was at the same age. Lachie Neale. FOS to me looks very talented. There is plenty of top end talent in this draft.

So you think lailor is a generational talent despite being no 7 on some phantom and power rankings??

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Yeh, when they're 18, that's perfectly fine and there's litters of examples of junior ratings being taken with a grain of salt compared to what players will or won't become.

No one's drafting for their output right now.

So when you draft an 18 year old from the TAC cup, what form and exposure are you basing it off??

 

[Grrr]

So you think lailor is a generational talent despite being no 7 on some phantom and power rankings??

Plenty of mock drafts have him at no.1, talked a lot about his upside hence the comparison to Dusty, who was not considered a generational talent either.

The thing is none of us know unless they are standouts like Reid and to a lesser extent JHF and Daicos. Gary Ablett Jnr didn't look much until he was about 20.

 

[Grrr]

So when you draft an 18 year old from the TAC cup, what form and exposure are you basing it off??

Exposed form and projected upside. It's not a science, but that is why you have a team of player watchers. Some stand out others are creepers. There have been many Moorish Medalists who not been drafted or have gone late in the draft.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Plenty of mock drafts have him at no.1, talked a lot about his upside hence the comparison to Dusty, who was not considered a generational talent either.

The thing is none of us know unless they are standouts like Reid and to a lesser extent JHF and Daicos. Gary Ablett Jnr didn't look much until he was about 20.

Some also have him listed as no7. He probably does have the most upside tho I agree.

Reid Walsh JHF Daicos Ashcroft riewoldt are some obvious historical standouts. Nobody from this crop is that level at underage

 

[Obeanie1]

All I am saying is what we know about this crop now. It’s been called an even draft that is also a deep draft. It lacks also elite top end talent with an even spread across the first round. You could throw a blanket over the top 7 and call any of their names out for the no1 pick and it would be acceptable this season.

There is no daicos Horne Francis Walsh judd types in this drafts top end.

You cant that for another 2 or 3 years min.

There may well be a player as good. They just aren't standing out against their cohort as much.

Most drafts when you look back have one or two guns. This likely no different. Just not sure when they will be picked.

 

[Obeanie1]

The other consideration for West Coast is the fact 9 of the top 10 players on most draft boards are Victorians.

Maybe they're planning to pick up a couple of non-Victorians (or a maximum of one Victorian) with their 12 and 14 picks, to mitigate the go home risk factor?

Geez I hope not. That means Bo Allan.

Better opions around that pick IMO.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Geez I hope not. That means Bo Allan.

Better opions around that pick IMO.

Bo allan is arguably as good as the top ten if not just slightly behind. Could put a case for him being picked ahead

 

[Obeanie1]

Bo allan is arguably as good as the top ten if not just slightly behind. Could put a case for him being picked ahead

True. Melbourne or Saints could take him with any one of those four picks they hold.

His ability to accumulate and kicking hurt factor has been the query from WA posters who have watched him.

Would rather Lindsay around 12. Better kick and has shown he can rack up the numbers.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

True. Melbourne or Saints could take him with any one of those four picks they hold.

His ability to accumulate and kicking hurt factor has been the query from WA posters who have watched him.

Would rather Lindsay around 12. Better kick and has shown he can rack up the numbers.

Jagger smith is pick 2/3 projected for example and I think Bo Allen has better long term upside and viability than jagger smith who looks to have very little upside or ceiling

 

[juss]

So when you draft an 18 year old from the TAC cup, what form and exposure are you basing it off??

They're projecting AFL traits, their relative performance right now if they're even doesn't mean there's no elite talents, it means there's less standouts amongst them at this point, it doesn't at all mean this draft won't yield a generational talent as you call it, it may it may not, but again they're not drafting with the future state in mind which is why guys with AFL traits they rate higher than guys who have performed better at times.

Otherwise, someone like Jagga Smith would probably be a lock for pick 1, or the kid that wins the Larke medal every year if they were only thinking of their form now.

 

[Footy Smarts]

It looks like pick 1 isn't as valuable this year as it sometimes is with no obviously dominant choice. But their 4 picks that will likely fall between 20-30 look more valuable than usual.

Richmond would prefer to find 5 good players including a couple of guns than get 1 guaranteed gun in a draft lacking depth.

This year looks a better draft given their picks than last year which had a really obvious top 11 and then the talent became very speculative very quickly.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

It looks like pick 1 isn't as valuable this year as it sometimes is with no obviously dominant choice. But their 4 picks that will likely fall between 20-30 look more valuable than usual.

Richmond would prefer to find 5 good players including a couple of guns than get 1 guaranteed gun in a draft lacking depth.

This year looks a better draft given their picks than last year which had a really obvious top 11 and then the talent became very speculative very quickly.

The top 11 doesn’t look better this year than other years, the value in this draft as you said lies in the extended quality into picks 20-40 which bats a bit deeper than normal. Even picks 50-60 could be half decent this year. The top end doesn’t look anything crash got tho

 

[PhatBoy]

I might start a new thread

Is what Geelong doing a form of tanking ?

I mean how else can you explain offering a 35 yr a 2 yr contract when half your best players are well in their 30s, and you are about to beg Richmond to give you pick 24 for your f1 and pick 45 , and then Richmond say no thanks, we have better offers from hawthorn .

The whole afl world is obsessed with this draft and yet the oldest team in the comp by far, does not have a pick lol


It is complete list mismanagement .

I don’t have a dog in this fight but just to highlight your schooling once more, we’ve just retired a 35 year old, as well as Zach Tuohy, and were already NOT the oldest list in the comp, and the team who was, has Pendlebury (still a very decent player I might add) running around, so how do you figure we ARE already the oldest list, let alone ‘by far’?

Did we go back in time at the conclusion of this season, doctor the birth certificates of our list and make everyone be born earlier than they had been when the lists were being put together at the start of the season?

I’m curious Blaisee did you ever actually attend any classes whatsoever during the years you were supposed to be educated or did you just hop on random buses and get thrown out at areas adjacent to buildings ending with the letter ‘L’ and assume that they were schools and just sit in them all day?

But yeah, team who finished in a prelim and then continued the tactic it has used for nearly two decades in which it’s missed the finals twice is tanking.


Maybe leave the debating to your fellow Tiger fans who at least can construct sentences as well as Lego shapes without having the corners rounded for safety purposes.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

I don’t have a dog in this fight but just to highlight your schooling once more, we’ve just retired a 35 year old, as well as Zach Tuohy, and were already NOT the oldest list in the comp, and the team who was, has Pendlebury (still a very decent player I might add) running around, so how do you figure we ARE already the oldest list, let alone ‘by far’?

Did we go back in time at the conclusion of this season, doctor the birth certificates of our list and make everyone be born earlier than they had been when the lists were being put together at the start of the season?

I’m curious Blaisee did you ever actually attend any classes whatsoever during the years you were supposed to be educated or did you just hop on random buses and get thrown out at areas adjacent to buildings ending with the letter ‘L’ and assume that they were schools and just sit in them all day?

But yeah, team who finished in a prelim and then continued the tactic it has used for nearly two decades in which it’s missed the finals twice is tanking.


Maybe leave the debating to your fellow Tiger fans who at least can construct sentences as well as Lego shapes without having the corners rounded for safety purposes.

Could have just said you believe Geelong has the 2nd oldest list. In the history of the competition.

 

[Fadge]

Could have just said you believe Geelong has the 2nd oldest list. In the history of the competition.

How does their average age compare with recent premiership teams?

Thanks.

 

[Nugett]

Do I think the Richmond “rebuild” is a form of tanking? No

Did I think Hawthorn were trying to tank last year? No

The only difference between the 2 clubs is the media coverage of both teams. Damien Barrett was very vocal about Hawthorn “Tanking” last year, and how the club should be penalised. Other media personalities at the beginning of last year were also very critical of Hawthorn, but later recanted their views, something Barrett never did.

The Tigers are being applauded for their list clean out and their innovative approach to overhaul their list.

I think this is the major gripe that most Hawk supporters see, is the blatant hypocrisy of the media, in two similar approaches to rejuvenate a playing list. Damien Barrett can self cannibalise by eating a fat turd.

 

[Cdog71]

There are no generational talents in this pool or elites

Going pretty early.
I’d encourage you to leave “spouting absolutes” to Fadge

It looks like pick 1 isn't as valuable this year as it sometimes is with no obviously dominant choice.

The Draft is ordered comparatively and IMO every year there are more and more potential draftees that have approached their draft year and strength/conditioning/professionalism with a “Preform now” mindset.
There’s also the focus on the pathway with Academy’s and High schools with sports focused programs.
It used to be the TAC and kids would play and play and play to get identified with Rep footy, school footy and club footy and not spend as much time building themselves physically or being really deliberate in their own game with training to build a point of difference.

I think there’s a good arguement the professionalism and the level of Draftees has come up and probably from before Covid lockdowns I think there are more kids focusing on that opportunity during the senior year of high school and I don’t expect that to change.
Generational talents or really unusual kids are that because there’s so few of them.

 

[SSSSSS]

Richmond are in a weird spot this year.

Seems like it's the worst draft in many years to hold the #1 pick but it's also probably one of best drafts in many years to have multiple bites at the first round.

 

[PhatBoy]

Could have just said you believe Geelong has the 2nd oldest list. In the history of the competition.

Who cares. I’d rather just tee off on the most inaccurate poster. In the history of this forum.

At any rate the average age of our best 22 in 2022 was 28.7.

The average age of our side that played the Lions was just over 27.

So I’m not sure how you work out that even with everyone a year older that they will be the second oldest team ever, especially with a 36 and 34 and 33 year old leaving.