Review Round 9, 2024 - Adelaide vs. Brisbane Lions

[Jim Stynes11]

It's not long since Joe was getting criticised for passing when he could / should have bee kickiig goals. Along the lines of "You're the key forward" "You're the one paid to take on that responsibility" etc etc.

It's been said already, but you could literally have used the same 2 x clips to say - Joe's always looking for Charlie even when he should be kicking the goal. Tried to thread the needle, etc , but Charlie has burnt him there.

 

[beardancer]

Yeah fair point. Easy playing Monday Quarterback i guess! we need an australian term for that

To be fair to me i was keen on Brain over Prior pre game, but then i am not the closest of the ressies watchers at all, it was more from reading reports and thinking he would be better suited to their smalls, not to mention the energy of a debut was clear from the week before!

As you say surely Brain plays next week. It should be a good game for the younger blokes (jinx) and then one more before the bye and a chance to re-set.

I do hope we go on merit from here in terms of who is in / out. I mean Bailey is obviously a lock. Starcevich is too. But we need to be picking the newbies if they have earned it. McKenna is an obvious candidate to go out from the weekend. Rayner should not be invincible (although i still like what he brings and think he is mis-used). Even Fletcher, who is young himself, could do with being managed, he seems to have some very down games. And i have no idea if Berry is more sore some weeks vs others, but given the gap between his good and bad games if he does get quite sore one week again we should look at a rest.

Fages is using the squad involuntarily, let's see if he does once players are back!

Yeah that mark Brain took edging out his oppo and taking front spot was superb, as was his pass

 

[braddsey]

Cam Rayner except for the Demons game has been disappointing for most of his career sadly... he appears to not put in top line effort too regularly.

Who else you thinking needs to look in the mirror? Maybe Eric but I don't think you can fault his effort, same with Joe, he is a laconic looking player but rarely lacks effort. I can't think of any other senior players who lack commitment.

Zorko/Lester/Andrews/McKenna/McCluggage/Berry/Dunkley/Neale/Cameron/Ah Chee/McInerney?

I don't agree that Cam doesn't put in effort. I don't profess to know anything about what his role is, but I don't think it's effort related.
He's certainly in a down period (pretty much since an amazing first quarter against Melbourne). Maybe his application is in the wrong areas, maybe he continues to suffer from having the tank to go again and again, so fades, or doesn't have the finishing required due fatigue.

I think it's a bit harsh to say he's been a disappointment most of his career. He carries a burden/expectation of being a #1 draft pick, but it was generally agreed he was the best pick in his draft at the time. If he'd been in another draft then potentially he wouldn't have been selected at pick 1.
He certainly hasn't exploded and we all hope he will, but to say he's a disappointment is a bit of a slap to a guy who has generally been building well, but currently having a down patch.

 

[rye]

been saying for a while hipwood and daniher get criticised differently than other key forwards

you can see why daniher doesnt want to engage with media at all

 

[rye]

I dont mind some things from King especially around concussions and the MRO. But this is a clear case of him having a story he wanted to tell and went looking for video without actually thinking about who the players are and how they play.

lost all respect for him on this when he completely and uncritically fell into Maynards corner last year because he had money on collingwood to win the flag

he is a hack of the highest order

 

[Big Sauce 21]

Why is Ah Chee not used in the forward line more often ? He clunks so many 1v1 marks over head. Can actually kick straight as well.

 

[mpal6]

We have some super exciting young talent that see us remain high on the ladder for some time to come. To think we get up to 6 guys back in to this side PLUS the super exciting three or four academy / FS kids. This is almost up to half a team of exciting injection.

Of course, the likes of Gardiner, McCarthy, sadly maybe even Doedee may not be best 22 when they come back but WAshcroft, LAshcroft, Coleman, Starcevich and Bailey certainly will be. Then you've got those three mentioned above, Dev and the other draftees all vying for spots.

2025 looks fantastic, no idea how we fit everyone.

Hopefully our coach is ready to drop some of the default selections by then.
Need competition for spots to help grow the performance mindset.

 

[mpal6]

Why is Ah Chee not used in the forward line more often ? He clunks so many 1v1 marks over head. Can actually kick straight as well.

Ah Chee is a more natural forward than Rayner to be honest.

 

[Big Sauce 21]

Ah Chee is a more natural forward than Rayner to be honest.

Showed more yesterday than any of our forwards have all year.

 

[M Malice]

I don't agree that Cam doesn't put in effort. I don't profess to know anything about what his role is, but I don't think it's effort related.
He's certainly in a down period (pretty much since an amazing first quarter against Melbourne). Maybe his application is in the wrong areas, maybe he continues to suffer from having the tank to go again and again, so fades, or doesn't have the finishing required due fatigue.

I think it's a bit harsh to say he's been a disappointment most of his career. He carries a burden/expectation of being a #1 draft pick, but it was generally agreed he was the best pick in his draft at the time. If he'd been in another draft then potentially he wouldn't have been selected at pick 1.
He certainly hasn't exploded and we all hope he will, but to say he's a disappointment is a bit of a slap to a guy who has generally been building well, but currently having a down patch.

I don't take into account where a player was selected in a particular draft, all it is is a bit of hype for the first season or 2 if they're selected early.

IMO Cam has been a disappointment over the course of his career regardless of where he went in his draft year, FWIW his draft class is a largely uninspiring cohort.

 

[Grasshopper17]

Well we’re losing clearances comfortably. We don’t usually win if that happens

It feels like the majority of the game has been played in our half and we are giving up easy shots going back the other way. If we can tighten that up surely we should be ok.

Couple of graphics from yesterday's game. The first one shows time in forward half:

So after the first quarter we certainly had the better of the territory battle, supporting your comment.

The grey line below indicates expected score from wherever a team starts a possession chain (ie it either wins a clearances or forces an intercept). That line finishes below the break even point indicating we had the better of that battle also:

 

[braddsey]

Hopefully our coach is ready to drop some of the default selections by then.
Need competition for spots to help grow the performance mindset.

Hopefully the default selections are playing to the ability that has makes them default selections when the time comes!

 

[buttermuffs]

Why is Ah Chee not used in the forward line more often ? He clunks so many 1v1 marks over head. Can actually kick straight as well.

Because he is versatile and is the first player to be shuffled to fill a hole when there’s been injuries (and there’s been a lot of injuries).

Started forward this year and kicked a couple then Kiddy went down first game and then McKenna went down second game and more. Lohmann earning his spot also pushed him to the wing since Lohmann is a more natural forward and Ah Chee is versatile.

Has helped and hurt Callum.

 

[Grasshopper17]

I can't believe how pessimistic you lot are.

Not sure if this was tongue in cheek or not, but anyway, I'll bite

I'm naturally a realistic pessimist, and I'd rather be pleasantly surprised than crushingly disappointed. So that's just me - you're going to have to deal with it!

With regards to everyone else, I imagine it's what a psychologist might call "learned behaviour". When you consider our growing rap sheet:

• Lead by 18 points 12 minutes into last quarter v Adelaide in 2024. Draw
• Lead by 46 points 18 minutes into 2nd quarter v Carlton in 2024. Lose by 1
• Lead by 28 points 19 minutes into 3rd quarter v Melbourne in 2023. Lose by 1
• Lead by 17 points 3 minutes into 3rd quarter v Hawthorn in 2023. Lose by 25
• Lead by 42 points 18 minutes into 2nd quarter v Richmond in 2022. Lose by 7
• Lead by 22 points 19 minutes into 3rd quarter v Hawthorn in 2022. Lose by 5
• Lead by 18 points 25 minutes into 3rd quarter v Western Bulldogs in 2021. Lose by 1
• Lead by 20 points at half time v Melbourne in 2021. Lose by 22

... It's no surprise otherwise optimistic supporters have been conditioned to fear the worst. And you can add to the above the multitude of matches during the same period where we've either

• let a strong 3 quarter time lead slip and flirt with losing in the last quarter; and
• other matches where we've been multiple goals behind at 3 quarter time, and simply rolled over without firing a shot

I would run out of fingers and toes to count matches which fit any of the above criteria, but I'm quite sure finding instances of the reverse wouldn't get you off your first hand.

Indeed, yesterday's performance to kick 5 consecutive goals either side of 3 quarter time when we looked like we were in a fair bit of trouble was a good effort.

But it was an exception, a pleasant surprise, and until we see more of that and less of the above, it will remain an outlier and we'll remain conditioned to expect the worst.

 

[Nathan Barley]

Why is Ah Chee not used in the forward line more often ? He clunks so many 1v1 marks over head. Can actually kick straight as well.

He has loads, just does SFA most weeks like he probably will for the next month

 

[Grasshopper17]

We've fired our best shot. As predictable as the sun rising.

We just don’t win these close ones. This will be brutal.

Game over.

There’s the season. No composure. Bone headed plays time and time again.

It is, Ive seen this movie before

Well, what have you all got to say for yourselves?

I'll allow others to answer for themselves on this one, but our best shot was the 5 consecutive goals we kicked bracketing 3 quarter time. So I'm comfortable with my original assertion

 

[Grasshopper17]

They should legit play that over the PA at the ground

 

[western royboy]

100000%
The Pies never get pinged for hatching the ball in the final 2 mins of games
Umps get too scared end of games to blow the whistle in pies games as well

Pendle's kicks the ball 50m to the boundary line the other week.. Throw in

We just do not have their way with umps.. No other team bar Dogs do

I’ll sort them out

 

[Clarkythelion]

So I tell my wife but she disagrees.

I'm like her, I was being sarcastic

 

[Crow till I die]

Just dropping by to say i saw the worrell incident where he busted his arm on replay (was at the game but up the other end of the ground) and what i noticed were the lions players in the general.area coming up to check on him and give him a pat on the back which was classy and a good look. I will see myself out now.

 

[braddsey]

Couple of graphics from yesterday's game. The first one shows time in forward half:
View attachment 1988171
So after the first quarter we certainly had the better of the territory battle, supporting your comment.

I love the shot map chart. It really shows why we all grown at missed set shots. On the surface, we kicked 7.6 from set shots, Adelaide kicked 6.6. But 3 of Adelaide's misses were from outside 50, whereas ours were somewhere between 30 & 50 (plus Charlies from the point post).
We kicked 3.7 between 15-40 meters out... so plenty of quality shots on goal, but missing goals we should be getting.

(Now i feel worse about the draw! )

 

[Grasshopper17]

I’m not so sure. The U12’s I coach lost by 5 points today and we dropped some sitters.

Clearly the coach needs to be sacked for not training them to mark the ball properly.

 

[BuntonRules]

100% correct. Maybe the media could have a look at Rayner.

FMD mate. You are so boring. Control your obsession, please.

 

[Grasshopper17]

Hippy gives it his all. lacking confidence in his kicking for some reason. Appears to get to close the player on the mark in my eyes.

From clips I see from training, we don't practice set shots with anyone standing the mark. There's the first problem: not training as you play.

 

[Big Sauce 21]

Because he is versatile and is the first player to be shuffled to fill a hole when there’s been injuries (and there’s been a lot of injuries).

Started forward this year and kicked a couple then Kiddy went down first game and then McKenna went down second game and more. Lohmann earning his spot also pushed him to the wing since Lohmann is a more natural forward and Ah Chee is versatile.

Has helped and hurt Callum.

Lets hope we stay fit because he's a fantastic forward. at 182cm he sure can play above his size. Fully fit squad he pushes Rayner to the reserves.