Not sure why a club would not accept our 1st rounders for last year and this year (you offer that for an A grader which Petty isn't) so just be thankful Melbourne knock them back if we really offer them 2 1st rounder.
Opinion Recruiting and List Management Team: Hamish Ogilvie, Justin Reid & Co
- Thread starter Mike Smyth
- Start date
- Tagged users None
Their clearly stated reason was that the bid came in too late for a replacement to be procured; and as a contending team they weren’t going to sabotage their entire 2024 campaign to appease us
I can see their thinking
But Petty isn’t playing like a guy who wants to be there
Samcro24
Cartel Shape Keeper
- Oct 28, 2014
- 10,054
- 24,717
- AFL Club
- Adelaide
Watch us
It’s funny too, given all the draft capital we’ve spent on the backline, we have
Murray
Keane
Butts
Borlase
Off the rookie list.
And Mitch Hinge who champion data have crowned as the greatest player of all time (or something) as a DFA.
FishMac was a bust obviously, and highly rated top 10 pick KPD Curtin needs to learn how to KPD. Apparently.
- Sep 3, 2018
- 4,269
- 5,586
- AFL Club
- Adelaide
Crows interest in Demons forward “not going away” - should Melbourne sell high?
Adelaide is reportedly very keen on acquiring him.
www.sen.com.au
Indicates probably a first and something and McAdam could have been the asking price so potentially a first and two seconds.
Bullet dodged hopefully - would like him but not near that price
Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
Hamish, Justin and Co have had some shockers and the black spot is definitely the midfield.
BUT if I was Hamish I would tear my hair out with Nick's.
Curtin - absolute jet but not played when we have Smith ripping it apparently
Ryan - see above
Edwards/Dowling - give them a go, put Laird and Crouch on the bench or as sub
Cook - stuffed around
Berry - been the same
Strachan - 2 rucks is being used and when ROB has been average, Kieran not tried
Never challenged Murphy, Smith, Laird, O'Brien
BUT if I was Hamish I would tear my hair out with Nick's.
Curtin - absolute jet but not played when we have Smith ripping it apparently
Ryan - see above
Edwards/Dowling - give them a go, put Laird and Crouch on the bench or as sub
Cook - stuffed around
Berry - been the same
Strachan - 2 rucks is being used and when ROB has been average, Kieran not tried
Never challenged Murphy, Smith, Laird, O'Brien
Drugs Are Bad Mackay?
Moderator
- May 24, 2006
- 77,616
- 153,170
- AFL Club
- Adelaide
- Other Teams
- Redbacks, Sturt, Liverpool, Arizona
- Moderator
- #1,707
The media tend to leave out the balance of the trades
Eg if we gave up our 2023 + 2024 1st rounders for Petty + Melbourne's 2023 1st that would be headlined as "Crows give up two first round picks"
When in reality it's one 1st round pick and one pick downgraded
Eg if we gave up our 2023 + 2024 1st rounders for Petty + Melbourne's 2023 1st that would be headlined as "Crows give up two first round picks"
When in reality it's one 1st round pick and one pick downgraded
- Jul 22, 2012
- 4,092
- 8,798
- AFL Club
- Adelaide
- Other Teams
- Philadelphia 76ers
Ideal offseason:
1) Completely shelve the trade offer for Petty. See how he plays in 2025 and grab him as a FA then if he lifts his game, otherwise, ignore him completely.
While I agree that he’s been very underwhelming this season, you have to note the fact that he’s much more likely to be utilised in defence for us than attack, with Welsh, Fog and Thilthorpe the “talls” in attack from 2026 onwards. Maybe we grab Petty as a FA in 2025 and use him up fwd temporarily while Welsh develops, but hopefully not.
Sure, we have have Murray, Keane, Curtin and Worrell in defence, but Curtin clearly projects as more as a flanker or wingman at AFL level longer term, and Worrell is your intercept Lever type who won’t ever be given a quality forward to take care of. Borlase will be delisted, and Butts is a depth player at best. Petty is a genuinely excellent AFL defender. Melbourne are probably the only club who would use him at the other end of the ground exclusively.
Bottom line, wasting trade capital on Petty in 2024, regardless of whether you’re planning to play him forward, back, or both, is ridiculous. Especially when you’ve recruited a black hole in the MIDFIELD, are going to finish in the bottom 6, and are entering a midfielder-heavy draft.
2) Secure Isaac Cumming as a FA. Not someone else who resembles Isaac Cumming. Isaac Cumming. Don’t care if it takes a 5 year, 850k offer (hopefully a bit less but honestly, that’s pretty standard these days). Our current options in his position (as either an attacking half back flanker /or wingman) are:
Smith (i can’t even believe he’s still in the AFL. A shell of an AFL player who is shot to bits mentally)
Milera (another long-term injury and no guarantee to ever recover)
Sholl (delist pile)
Jones (complete disappointment but I actually don’t mind him as a DEFENSIVE first player. So not in these roles at all)
Nankervis (promising, but if he’s the best option at the club in a role like this, thats actually not a good sign)
McHenry (sometimes spends time on a wing and is a disgrace)
Hinge (an ok option)
I’m not sure I can even count Parnell or Hamill. Worrell is more of a third tall. We don’t even know what Curtin is. Maybe Oscar Ryan becomes something but we don’t know that until he actually plays.
The point is, you won’t find a less inspiring list of players for those positions (who have actually played AFL football to this point) at any other club. This is a huge need for us, and Cumming is coming (lol) from an elite footy program. GWS quite simply can’t afford to go close to matching what we can offer with all the other talent they have, and with the likes of top 25 player in the comp Whitfield, plus the fast-improving Lachie Ash playing in those positions, Cumming is more expendable to the Giants than he would be to any other club. From Broken Hill. Mates with Tex. McCluggage is pie in the sky stuff. This is real, attainable, and makes perfect sense for both parties.
3) Draft the absolute BEST midfielder with the top 6 pick we end up with from this shitshow of a season. Do not get fancy and try to turn a forward or half back into a midfielder. Do not get tunnel vision and take the SA kid if a better player is available. Do not take a player who lacks speed or can’t create via foot. Do not focus on what kind of family they are from. Focus on skill level, desire and ability to impact games. If there’s a flight risk, take that into account, but it’s not everything. We need elite talent.
4) I really don’t see why we can’t or shouldn’t go after multiple free agents, so in addition to securing Cumming as priority 1A, have a crack at all of Oli Florent, Will Hayward, Brandon Parfitt and Elliott Yeo (in that order).
Cumming to replace Smith / Milera at half back, AND Florent to replace Jones / Sholl on a wing would be a huge boost for us. Cumming is definitely the higher priority as he is far more damaging by foot, but Florent is a very handy player. Let’s be honest though, Florent is almost definitely staying at the Swans or heading home to Vic.
Hayward replacing Murphy / McHenry at half forward is also a huge net win. It’s a complete indictment on our playing list that one or both of McHenry / Murphy get picked every week, and acquiring Hayward would go a long way to eliminating that need. It would also free Rankine up to play more midfield minutes, and might even get Rachele some more time up the ground too. Hayward being from SA, and Sydney needing to spend their big cash on Gulden and L McDonald means we are right in the mix here.
Failing a Hayward or Florent addition, grabbing one of Parfitt / Yeo to add to our inside mix would also be valuable, especially considering Laird is close to the end, Crouch is probably only going to decline in 2025 and beyond, and the combo of Berry / Pedlar look pretty unlikely to be AFL standard regulars moving into the future.
Yes, Yeo is pretty old, but I don’t mind him as a 3 year rental who costs nothing in trade capital and will play at a higher standard than whoever he replaces in our starting midfield, while other young mids we already have (mainly Dowling and Edwards, and perhaps we still count Schoenberg, Berry and Pedlar if anyone thinks they still have a shot at being best 18 players) PLUS others we draft in the next 2 drafts (most importantly the top 6 pick this year) continue to develop and build their AFL midfield time gradually. Yeo is absolutely killing it so far this year (among the league leaders in clearances and has been genuinely excellent in most games), and if he can stay fit for the rest of 2024 (big if), we should be at least considering trying to poach him at a bargain price.
Parfitt has looked really good for the Cats this season in a career resurgence that began late last year. He’s leading their club in tackles per game and is 2nd for them in clearances per game. Would you rather that as a starter at centre bounces than either of Laird or Berry? I would. Has SA ties too.
5) Completely ignore the high-end trade market this offseason. We need this year’s top 6 pick to grab a quality mid in the draft. We need our 2025 first rounder for either another quality mid, or to trade for a big name coming out of contract NEXT year. Now that Holmes and Gulden have re-signed, the best options for us this year are FREE AGENTS, which do NOT require trade capital. Do. Not. Trade. First. Round. Picks. This. Year. Trading a 3rd rounder for a ruckman with upside makes a lot of sense. Not much else does.
6) Be absolutely ruthless with list cuts. All of the following should clearly happen with our out of contract players:
McHenry > delist or trade for pick 55 odd if a club is stupid enough to offer it. He simply cannot be offered another contract here. It makes no sense.
Cook > the next 6 weeks decides his fate. I’m still open to delisting, trading, or a 1-2 year deal. He will show us what the right option is with his performances on the field between now and the bye. I sense he might stick around and I’m ok with that. The talent is there.
Hamill > delist or retain on rookie list as depth for 1 more year. Open to either. Never going to be best 22 when everyone is fit. Decent enough depth if we need it, and with Milera’s career in doubt, Smith on the way out and Parnell on the delist pile, maybe we do need him as depth.
Borlase > see Hamill. Again, maybe keep him around as depth in 2025. The return of Murray and the rise of Keane might make it less likely that Borlase gets another year than Hamill though.
Smith > delist / retire. He’s completely cooked. Why pretend anymore? Oscar Ryan, Dan Curtin, the essential acquisition of Isaac Cumming and even Chayce, Nank, Michalanney, Hinge and Worrell render his existence on the list absolutely pointless.
Himmelberg > delist, or if GwS want to donate pick 55 odd for Welsh points, be my guest. We simply can’t offer a senior contract here.
Bond > delist. Ronin O’Connor lite. No brainer.
Gollant > delist, or if another club wants to offer up pick 55ish for Welsh points, be my guest. Hugely disappointing as I thought he could really become something. Has already played his last game for us IMO.
Sholl > delist, or if another club wants to offer up pick 55ish for Welsh points, be my guest. Sure, he looked just great against North. It’s well established how he looks against real teams. Stop trying to polish this turd and quit wasting games on him. Keeping him around is madness.
Parnell > delist. No brainer even before the injury.
Sloane > he’ll be retired before this, but yeah, delist if he inexplicably is still soaking up a list spot.
Berry > re-sign for 1 year, or 2 years absolute maximum. Depth player only but a pretty damn solid one.
Tex > re-sign for 1
Footywire says Burgess is out of contract too but I don’t believe that (they say every player acquired via trade in 2023 is out of contract in 2024). He’s depth only and is unlikely to still be on our list whenever the contract we offered him finishes though.
These list cuts free up at least 7 senior list spots (I’m not sure if Parnell is currently on the Senior or rookie list, it’s 8 vacancies if he’s now a senior listed player). Fill 2 of them with Cumming and another of the FAs mentioned. Fill another with a ruckman via trade or maybe we draft a mature one. Fill another with Welsh. Fill another with the best midfielder available at our first pick in the draft. That leaves 2 other spots for new national draftees - prioritise skill and talent over anything else with these picks.
I’d say a tackling, pressure goal savvy small forward should be a priority with one of these picks. McHenry and Murphy shouldn’t ever play again. Rankine should spend 60-75% of his time in the midfield. Rachele doesn’t lock the ball in. Hayward would be a nice addition, but i still think we lack another one of these types even if we do get Hayward.
1) Completely shelve the trade offer for Petty. See how he plays in 2025 and grab him as a FA then if he lifts his game, otherwise, ignore him completely.
While I agree that he’s been very underwhelming this season, you have to note the fact that he’s much more likely to be utilised in defence for us than attack, with Welsh, Fog and Thilthorpe the “talls” in attack from 2026 onwards. Maybe we grab Petty as a FA in 2025 and use him up fwd temporarily while Welsh develops, but hopefully not.
Sure, we have have Murray, Keane, Curtin and Worrell in defence, but Curtin clearly projects as more as a flanker or wingman at AFL level longer term, and Worrell is your intercept Lever type who won’t ever be given a quality forward to take care of. Borlase will be delisted, and Butts is a depth player at best. Petty is a genuinely excellent AFL defender. Melbourne are probably the only club who would use him at the other end of the ground exclusively.
Bottom line, wasting trade capital on Petty in 2024, regardless of whether you’re planning to play him forward, back, or both, is ridiculous. Especially when you’ve recruited a black hole in the MIDFIELD, are going to finish in the bottom 6, and are entering a midfielder-heavy draft.
2) Secure Isaac Cumming as a FA. Not someone else who resembles Isaac Cumming. Isaac Cumming. Don’t care if it takes a 5 year, 850k offer (hopefully a bit less but honestly, that’s pretty standard these days). Our current options in his position (as either an attacking half back flanker /or wingman) are:
Smith (i can’t even believe he’s still in the AFL. A shell of an AFL player who is shot to bits mentally)
Milera (another long-term injury and no guarantee to ever recover)
Sholl (delist pile)
Jones (complete disappointment but I actually don’t mind him as a DEFENSIVE first player. So not in these roles at all)
Nankervis (promising, but if he’s the best option at the club in a role like this, thats actually not a good sign)
McHenry (sometimes spends time on a wing and is a disgrace)
Hinge (an ok option)
I’m not sure I can even count Parnell or Hamill. Worrell is more of a third tall. We don’t even know what Curtin is. Maybe Oscar Ryan becomes something but we don’t know that until he actually plays.
The point is, you won’t find a less inspiring list of players for those positions (who have actually played AFL football to this point) at any other club. This is a huge need for us, and Cumming is coming (lol) from an elite footy program. GWS quite simply can’t afford to go close to matching what we can offer with all the other talent they have, and with the likes of top 25 player in the comp Whitfield, plus the fast-improving Lachie Ash playing in those positions, Cumming is more expendable to the Giants than he would be to any other club. From Broken Hill. Mates with Tex. McCluggage is pie in the sky stuff. This is real, attainable, and makes perfect sense for both parties.
3) Draft the absolute BEST midfielder with the top 6 pick we end up with from this shitshow of a season. Do not get fancy and try to turn a forward or half back into a midfielder. Do not get tunnel vision and take the SA kid if a better player is available. Do not take a player who lacks speed or can’t create via foot. Do not focus on what kind of family they are from. Focus on skill level, desire and ability to impact games. If there’s a flight risk, take that into account, but it’s not everything. We need elite talent.
4) I really don’t see why we can’t or shouldn’t go after multiple free agents, so in addition to securing Cumming as priority 1A, have a crack at all of Oli Florent, Will Hayward, Brandon Parfitt and Elliott Yeo (in that order).
Cumming to replace Smith / Milera at half back, AND Florent to replace Jones / Sholl on a wing would be a huge boost for us. Cumming is definitely the higher priority as he is far more damaging by foot, but Florent is a very handy player. Let’s be honest though, Florent is almost definitely staying at the Swans or heading home to Vic.
Hayward replacing Murphy / McHenry at half forward is also a huge net win. It’s a complete indictment on our playing list that one or both of McHenry / Murphy get picked every week, and acquiring Hayward would go a long way to eliminating that need. It would also free Rankine up to play more midfield minutes, and might even get Rachele some more time up the ground too. Hayward being from SA, and Sydney needing to spend their big cash on Gulden and L McDonald means we are right in the mix here.
Failing a Hayward or Florent addition, grabbing one of Parfitt / Yeo to add to our inside mix would also be valuable, especially considering Laird is close to the end, Crouch is probably only going to decline in 2025 and beyond, and the combo of Berry / Pedlar look pretty unlikely to be AFL standard regulars moving into the future.
Yes, Yeo is pretty old, but I don’t mind him as a 3 year rental who costs nothing in trade capital and will play at a higher standard than whoever he replaces in our starting midfield, while other young mids we already have (mainly Dowling and Edwards, and perhaps we still count Schoenberg, Berry and Pedlar if anyone thinks they still have a shot at being best 18 players) PLUS others we draft in the next 2 drafts (most importantly the top 6 pick this year) continue to develop and build their AFL midfield time gradually. Yeo is absolutely killing it so far this year (among the league leaders in clearances and has been genuinely excellent in most games), and if he can stay fit for the rest of 2024 (big if), we should be at least considering trying to poach him at a bargain price.
Parfitt has looked really good for the Cats this season in a career resurgence that began late last year. He’s leading their club in tackles per game and is 2nd for them in clearances per game. Would you rather that as a starter at centre bounces than either of Laird or Berry? I would. Has SA ties too.
5) Completely ignore the high-end trade market this offseason. We need this year’s top 6 pick to grab a quality mid in the draft. We need our 2025 first rounder for either another quality mid, or to trade for a big name coming out of contract NEXT year. Now that Holmes and Gulden have re-signed, the best options for us this year are FREE AGENTS, which do NOT require trade capital. Do. Not. Trade. First. Round. Picks. This. Year. Trading a 3rd rounder for a ruckman with upside makes a lot of sense. Not much else does.
6) Be absolutely ruthless with list cuts. All of the following should clearly happen with our out of contract players:
McHenry > delist or trade for pick 55 odd if a club is stupid enough to offer it. He simply cannot be offered another contract here. It makes no sense.
Cook > the next 6 weeks decides his fate. I’m still open to delisting, trading, or a 1-2 year deal. He will show us what the right option is with his performances on the field between now and the bye. I sense he might stick around and I’m ok with that. The talent is there.
Hamill > delist or retain on rookie list as depth for 1 more year. Open to either. Never going to be best 22 when everyone is fit. Decent enough depth if we need it, and with Milera’s career in doubt, Smith on the way out and Parnell on the delist pile, maybe we do need him as depth.
Borlase > see Hamill. Again, maybe keep him around as depth in 2025. The return of Murray and the rise of Keane might make it less likely that Borlase gets another year than Hamill though.
Smith > delist / retire. He’s completely cooked. Why pretend anymore? Oscar Ryan, Dan Curtin, the essential acquisition of Isaac Cumming and even Chayce, Nank, Michalanney, Hinge and Worrell render his existence on the list absolutely pointless.
Himmelberg > delist, or if GwS want to donate pick 55 odd for Welsh points, be my guest. We simply can’t offer a senior contract here.
Bond > delist. Ronin O’Connor lite. No brainer.
Gollant > delist, or if another club wants to offer up pick 55ish for Welsh points, be my guest. Hugely disappointing as I thought he could really become something. Has already played his last game for us IMO.
Sholl > delist, or if another club wants to offer up pick 55ish for Welsh points, be my guest. Sure, he looked just great against North. It’s well established how he looks against real teams. Stop trying to polish this turd and quit wasting games on him. Keeping him around is madness.
Parnell > delist. No brainer even before the injury.
Sloane > he’ll be retired before this, but yeah, delist if he inexplicably is still soaking up a list spot.
Berry > re-sign for 1 year, or 2 years absolute maximum. Depth player only but a pretty damn solid one.
Tex > re-sign for 1
Footywire says Burgess is out of contract too but I don’t believe that (they say every player acquired via trade in 2023 is out of contract in 2024). He’s depth only and is unlikely to still be on our list whenever the contract we offered him finishes though.
These list cuts free up at least 7 senior list spots (I’m not sure if Parnell is currently on the Senior or rookie list, it’s 8 vacancies if he’s now a senior listed player). Fill 2 of them with Cumming and another of the FAs mentioned. Fill another with a ruckman via trade or maybe we draft a mature one. Fill another with Welsh. Fill another with the best midfielder available at our first pick in the draft. That leaves 2 other spots for new national draftees - prioritise skill and talent over anything else with these picks.
I’d say a tackling, pressure goal savvy small forward should be a priority with one of these picks. McHenry and Murphy shouldn’t ever play again. Rankine should spend 60-75% of his time in the midfield. Rachele doesn’t lock the ball in. Hayward would be a nice addition, but i still think we lack another one of these types even if we do get Hayward.
If its essentially a swap for Butts for example, with maybe a third or future third round pick going to Melbourne, then I’d make the deal, but Petty isnt worth a first round pick at all.
Petty and Murray as the KPD, Worrell as the 3rd tall and maybe then Keane becomes more of a creative running HB taking medium forwards?
Drugs Are Bad Mackay?
Moderator
- May 24, 2006
- 77,616
- 153,170
- AFL Club
- Adelaide
- Other Teams
- Redbacks, Sturt, Liverpool, Arizona
- Moderator
- #1,710
How much is Petty struggling due to a limited preseason?
Is he just not much of a forward?
Or just not that good?
Been an abysmal start to the season
Is he just not much of a forward?
Or just not that good?
Been an abysmal start to the season
- Aug 30, 2021
- 15,564
- 28,822
- AFL Club
- Adelaide
The top 2. He’s not a forward, he’s a quality defender but Melbourne are seduced by a couple of good games he played up forward last year. I hope we weren’t too. We do not need to spend any more draft capital on defenders.
- Oct 2, 2022
- 4,467
- 5,868
- AFL Club
- Adelaide
Completely implausible, because Melbourne would have grabbed it with both hands if it was offered.
- Oct 2, 2022
- 4,467
- 5,868
- AFL Club
- Adelaide
Take that to the Bryce Gibbs board please
- Oct 2, 2022
- 4,467
- 5,868
- AFL Club
- Adelaide
That's a great, long post.
My only immediate observation is you probably don't be try and get Yeo because Laird and Crouch are slowing down, as Yeo probably ends before either of them.
That being said, I'd still probably do it.
CryptoCrow
Hard Ball Getz
Target him for free in 2025 if we still feel the need.
- Jul 14, 2012
- 6,588
- 8,547
- AFL Club
- Adelaide
I really just hope we don't do something stupid with our first pick this year in supposedly a stacked quality midfield draft.
Especially if we have a top ~6 pick, we absolutely must get best available mid. Not a flanker or a 'hybrid'... BEST available MIDFIELDER.
Imagine our midfield now if we had Serong and Butters.
Especially if we have a top ~6 pick, we absolutely must get best available mid. Not a flanker or a 'hybrid'... BEST available MIDFIELDER.
Imagine our midfield now if we had Serong and Butters.
GreyCrow
TheBrownDog
- Mar 21, 2016
- 74,936
- 119,202
- AFL Club
- Adelaide
- Other Teams
- Sturt, White Sox
- Aug 30, 2021
- 15,564
- 28,822
- AFL Club
- Adelaide
No, they have a valued player who they saw as a solution to their key forward issue and they are in their premiership window. They also said the offer came too late to find a replacement.
Tell me, what do you think we would have offered to get them to release him 2 years early?
- Jul 14, 2012
- 6,588
- 8,547
- AFL Club
- Adelaide
If a very very good offer came for Fogarty, i'd seriously consider it.
Quite a few teams desperate for a forward and might be willing to pay overs. We have Welsh coming through and hopefully TT comes back and can be a decent forward/ruck. I have a tiny bit of hope Lukosius could still come to us and also play as a third tall forward.
Im going to put it out there - I'm not convinced on Fogarty,
Quite a few teams desperate for a forward and might be willing to pay overs. We have Welsh coming through and hopefully TT comes back and can be a decent forward/ruck. I have a tiny bit of hope Lukosius could still come to us and also play as a third tall forward.
Im going to put it out there - I'm not convinced on Fogarty,
Scorpus
Moderator
- Apr 16, 2014
- 58,479
- 152,112
- AFL Club
- Adelaide
- Moderator
- #1,720
The last section is crucial
Retaining a poor quality player that's proven to not be AFL standard is worse than taking a new draftee. We've been far too kind on some of the depth and fringe players we've had. If there are any question marks whatsoever on a fringe player, it's a one year contract situation, not two years, certainly not three years.
Wouldn’t be like us at all to make list decisions off a single grand performance.
Not a team who was 1 decent tall forward away from playing in a GF.
CryptoCrow
Hard Ball Getz
If Fog goes to any other club he will be elite, what we're better off doing is getting better footy development coach's onboard ASAP..
- Jul 14, 2012
- 6,588
- 8,547
- AFL Club
- Adelaide
Spot on,
Think of Ben Davis, Rowe, Hately etc etc... All list cloggers we wasted games on or kept on the list far too long.
Pugsley
TheBrownDog
The only positive, they are getting good value out of McAdam.
Similar threads
