Coach Fages and the coaching group

[mpal6]

The golden run injury wise we’ve had over the last however many years has actually come back to be a curse this year. Not only has our luck run out in that aspect, but because we haven’t had to (and because we have chose not to), expose any of our depth we’re now finding out we don’t have a whole lot.

Couple that with the fact a large number of senior guys are well done on their past form, which in some instances may be permanent given some of their ages, it’s not exactly hard to see where things are starting to fall down.

This doesn’t even start to question mentally how the group would be feeling. Getting so close after a number of years, only to blow it at the end. Come back to the new year and everyone patting them on the back, saying we just had to turn up and we’ll be back there on GF day. Round 1 comes and we lose our most important ball user and injuries have just got continued to mount from there with results heading the same way.

I honestly shudder to think how bad the second half of our season might be if we are out of contention and subsequent motivation by then.

It'll be good for Fagan actually. He won't be burdened by needing to make finals etc and will make some experimental changes. For example I'd love to see what a midfield minus Neale would look like. No disrespect to the brownlow medallist but he's 31 this may and we need the next-gen to be coming through soon. We could throw in a Rayner, Dunkley and Tunstill midfield and see what happens etc.

 

[SpecialBruce]

My concern is that with players like
Mccarthy
Charlie
Neale
Daniher

We probably have one good year left in 2025 and is it Fagan or do we need someone else. I’m not suggesting an untried assistant coach but is there an ex coach out there that sees this stacked list and rubs their hands?
The only person in media circles is Bucks, out of the assistants out there it’s Dom Pyke, Dew and to be fair none of them imo have set the world on fire apart from maybe Bucks and Pyke with a grand final appearance each. But then again Fagan has given us that. So we only change that up purely if the game plan is to fundamentally change.

See, this is the hard thing. If we had a succession plan in place, I would move them all on, do a mini rebuild as Fagan is good at doing that, then put the new coach on to take over when we are finals bound again.

I wouldn't be opposed at Fagan rebuilding

 

[Squizz89]

It'll be good for Fagan actually. He won't be burdened by needing to make finals etc and will make some experimental changes. For example I'd love to see what a midfield minus Neale would look like. No disrespect to the brownlow medallist but he's 31 this may and we need the next-gen to be coming through soon. We could throw in a Rayner, Dunkley and Tunstill midfield and see what happens etc.

Yep, even if things get ugly I’m still firmly in the belief we have to use this year to give us a better chance for next year. If that means uncovering a couple of players from the reserves, or some new positions for the guys already in the team, we need to use that to our advantage next year.

Picking up an easier draw for next year, like the Cats have done this year due to finishing position won’t be a bad thing either.

 

[SpecialBruce]

Yep, even if things get ugly I’m still firmly in the belief we have to use this year to give us a better chance for next year. If that means uncovering a couple of players from the reserves, or some new positions for the guys already in the team, we need to use that to our advantage next year.

Picking up an easier draw for next year, like the Cats have done this year due to finishing position won’t be a bad thing either.

He won't though. That is the issue. He will never use younger players from the reserves long term. He may bring them up for one or two weeks but then will drop them.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Are you actually watching games?

Everyone was giving plaudits to Andrews, Payne and Lester last night, because they stopped the score being much worse, even though Lester was caught out the most last night.

Payne isn’t out of form. He’s actually holding up pretty well, and almost back to where he was in the first half of last year.

With the way our midfield is underperforming, expect our tall defenders to be under the pump most weeks.

Payne was in Geelong’s Best Players last week and was clearly their best in the first half.

 

[mpal6]

Yep, even if things get ugly I’m still firmly in the belief we have to use this year to give us a better chance for next year. If that means uncovering a couple of players from the reserves, or some new positions for the guys already in the team, we need to use that to our advantage next year.

Picking up an easier draw for next year, like the Cats have done this year due to finishing positin won’t be a bad thing either.

Agreed. Whoever is the best kick left after Coleman (can't be Zorko) needs to play in that defense line up. If it's Brain bring him in - let him settle and start taking kick in duties. If it's Fletcher then move Fletcher to defense. I hate quoting David King but let's not get beaten by what we already know as a problem - Keidean going down is a clear issue and we need an answer other than 35 year old Zorko.

Similarly whoever can add more pace on ball, bring them in. If it's Reville then add him to wing. We can keep tinkering with this in 2024 so we have more options to bring on next year.

 

[Sanchez365]

The golden run injury wise we’ve had over the last however many years has actually come back to be a curse this year. Not only has our luck run out in that aspect, but because we haven’t had to (and because we have chose not to), expose any of our depth we’re now finding out we don’t have a whole lot.

Couple that with the fact a large number of senior guys are well done on their past form, which in some instances may be permanent given some of their ages, it’s not exactly hard to see where things are starting to fall down.

This doesn’t even start to question mentally how the group would be feeling. Getting so close after a number of years, only to blow it at the end. Come back to the new year and everyone patting them on the back, saying we just had to turn up and we’ll be back there on GF day. Round 1 comes and we lose our most important ball user and injuries have just got continued to mount from there with results heading the same way.

I honestly shudder to think how bad the second half of our season might be if we are out of contention and subsequent motivation by then.

Yeah there's real shades of the wheels absolutely falling off West Coast style.

 

[3KZ is Football]

I view it on the same ilk as Ross Lyons at both Saints and Fremantle. Murmurings from supporters for a few seasons before ultimately being 'moved on' in both roles even with 'success'. Ross Lyon is a good coach and Fagan is a good coach. I think most here would accept that on results. But sometimes things can go in a way that paper over the systemic weaknesses in a club. In our case having a dual Brownlow medallist, strong list experience compared to other teams and the Gabbatoir.

I don't think it's too farfetched to suggest that maybe some people have seen the warning signs a lot longer than just 7 games into 2024. There has been many discussions and posts both on this board and in private on Fagan and his coaching ability. So yeah... again I'm saying this isn't a season 2024 thing. Just more are starting to see the light now that poor results are a direct consequence and not just poor moments in a game.

100%

 

[M Malice]

Chris Fagan's problem is we haven't got a hell of a lot of reserves talent that I would be confident in at least holding their own and showing some glimpses.

The ones I would like seen given a go at some stage who I think have shown a "vibe" of making it to my uneducated eyes are Shadeau Brain, Bruce Reville, Logan Morris and the one that has really surprised with how good he has looked is Reece Torrent.

Carter Michael looked pretty good in his 1 and only game in 2022 but the poor bloke just can not get on the park and have a good run at it, OOC this year, I think if we delist him another club will pick him up and he could go on to have a reasonable AFL career at another club ah la Mitch Hinge.

 

[Elixuh]

But who’s counting? On Lester, not at all. I just think that Payne’s senior selection lacks credibility based on his form and obvious shortcomings. The longer he is horrendously out of form, the worse his very long contract looks.

It's going to be a really long year if things go poorly onfield and you continue to post like you have been, I wish you wouldn't subject us to it.

 

[3KZ is Football]

It's going to be a really long year if things go poorly onfield and you continue to post like you have been, I wish you wouldn't subject us to it.

Yeah. Fair enough. In a moment of rare and sincere insight I have come to the conclusion that I can’t be the only person hurting at the moment. Being sensitive to other people’s feelings means I need to dial it back. I will leave it to SizeMatters and McIvor to put my perspective.

I’m not taking the piss Elixuh or On the quiet - I think I am a bit sick of me too.

 

[rye]

Yeah. Fair enough. In a moment of rare and sincere insight I have come to the conclusion that I can’t be the only person hurting at the moment. Being sensitive to other people’s feelings means I need to dial it back. I will leave it to SizeMatters and McIvor to put my perspective.

I’m not taking the piss Elixuh or On the quiet - I think I am a bit sick of me too.

for what its worth you are tied with danster as my favourite gimmick account on this site

 

[3KZ is Football]

for what its worth you are tied with danster as my favourite gimmick account on this site

That’s very kind rye. That said, I do think danster is overrated. #Sackdanster

 

[BangyBangy]

I hope I don't get charged with stalking, but I have a hidden camera in 3KZ is Football's house.

Actual footage of him during a game when we're losing & it's Fagan's, Rayner's, Payne's, & Hipwoods fault....

 

[3KZ is Football]

I hope I don't get charged with stalking, but I have a hidden camera in 3KZ is Football's house.

Actual footage of him during a game when we're losing & it's Fagan's, Rayner's, Payne's, & Hipwoods fault....


View attachment 1971568

That’s actually selection night footage when Lester is picked in the ‘Ones’.

 

[brutus76]

Dimma lost the Tigers players after 3 flags and 12.5 seasons

Fages has lost the players after 7 and a bit seasons after taking them from rock bottom in 2017 to within a kick of a premiership last year - done a fantastic job to take the Lions from the doldrums

Like Dimma though not adaptable to strategy and set up and very, very reluctant to drop underperforming and way out of form players giving games when they are not deserved and not rewarding those at VFL level looking to get a spot

A fresh face and voice might take them all the way after taking a couple of steps back this year to pause and re-set the list and game plan moving forward a la Geelong 2022-2023-2024

 

[mpal6]

I'd put the focus on Leadership group as a whole than Fagan.

For example, Harris Payne Lester Wilmot and Answerth are defending their heart out and doing close checking on their direct forwards. They are getting flooded with ball in defense which is unfortunate and presently lack the luxury of pressure further up the field. I have nothing but positives to say about our defensive core.

For midfield - I'd ask that question to Lachie Neale

9

Lachie Neale

Age

30

Ht

178cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

27.0

5star

K

11.5

4star

HB

15.5

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

3.7

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

28.3

5star

K

13.9

5star

HB

14.4

5star

M

4.6

4star

T

4.0

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

12.0

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

7.4

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

1.0

3star

CL

0.4

3star

. Lions cannot win that premiership with Neale winning 95% of the midfield ball / clearance. It's not a sustainable model in the first place and it's looking even more awkward now with midfield out of form. We need Neale to forget about individual accolades going forward and see if he can treat the midfield as a "whole squad" right down to Tunstill, Dev and extended team. If there is a clearance plan, 3 member midfield rotation etc - Neale needs to be all over it to introduce the next generation of players. Neale's success from here on relies on the next rung and not himself. I believe Neale has a shrewd footy brain in terms of coordinating that midfield "squad" so him taking an active role in clearance plans, strategy etc without needing him playing a midfield role in rotation and doing everything would help us right the ship.

Same with forwards - Lohmann has earned his spot in my view and I'll keep persisting with him, he brings youthful exuberance to the team and it'll add more energy to that line up. Charlie is down, Daniher did it again this round where instead of shepherding for Charlie he went for the mark and GWS swept it away. Talent is there, selflessness has disappeared due to the added pressure of lacking goals. We can focus on selfless area more and goals will return. forward line needs to believe in themselves and on each other, it'll turn.

 

[buttermuffs]

It'll be good for Fagan actually. He won't be burdened by needing to make finals etc and will make some experimental changes. For example I'd love to see what a midfield minus Neale would look like. No disrespect to the brownlow medallist but he's 31 this may and we need the next-gen to be coming through soon. We could throw in a Rayner, Dunkley and Tunstill midfield and see what happens etc.

I’d say Neale is the only one that shouldn’t be leaving the inside midfield since it’s the only position he’s really suitable to play. Dunkley spent years forward and Clugs is a good high half forward as well. There’s not reason they can see more time in those secondary positions while others chop through with more midfield time.

 

[buttermuffs]

Payne was in Geelong’s Best Players last week and was clearly their best in the first half.

Yep he played like doo doo and out of all our players it was clear that he was the most unprepared to play in the wet. He was sprinting at the ball and it always slipped past him and it sucked and it was frustrating.

Doesn’t change the fact that he was playing like he did early last year against Melbourne and GWS.

Doesn’t take much to be positive and say that he’s building, has his confidence and form mostly back.

 

[briztoon]

Payne was in Geelong’s Best Players last week and was clearly their best in the first half.

Mate, you really need to take a broader view of the team and game, and take off your anti Payne glasses.

Andrews is able to play the intercept and spoil defender because of the role Payne is playing.

Make Andrews play an accountable game on the opposition teams best forward, with the way our midfield is performing, and he gets towelled up as well.

We’ve all seen Andrews crack the sooks on the field because he’s getting beaten by his opponent. Why don’t you call for Andrews to be dropped.

Hawkins pretty much towels every defender up when the Geelong midfield is on top. Part of it is because he’s allowed to get away with blue murder by the umpires most of the time.

However last week, again was squarely on our midfield underperforming, and the constant turnovers they created.

But you just have it in for one player.

Neale and McCluggage were the two worst last week, and almost the two worst last night. But they’re meant to be our leaders.

 

[Viceregal]

Wasn't there a time when Lyons and Neale were analysing opposition midfields and almost coaching and training the midfield brigade ... are they still doing that?

Also at what point did soft drink get reintroduced post Hodge's input?

 

[FeastOrFamine]

Apart from the flogging, I hope you enjoyed your first visit to the ground on such a special day, although the ACT RSL branch president had a moment he would like back

He's actually a family friend of my girlfriend so it's safe to say we both felt especially bad for him. Really nice bloke too based on what she told me right before the first bounce.

 

[Gadzorks]

That’s very kind rye. That said, I do think danster is overrated. #Sackdanster

I'll stop ... But I can't!!

 

[Tom14]

My simple question is - how many games have we won due to system in the last few years, and how much has been due to talent?

The answer is obviously both, but I can count on one hand the number of games I reckon we’ve totally brained someone tactically. Dees this year, Carlton and st kilda at marvel last year maybe?

Coincidentally those are all the games where our whole defensive application and approach was rock solid. For a lot of games though we’ve won through scoring power and now that’s fallen off a cliff we are struggling.

This is why criticising the backline is pointless, and I think they’ve actually been pretty decent to good this year. The forwards and mids have been brutal for the most part.

 

[Section 5]

Kiddy does his knee just on half time in the opening round v Blues.
We know what happened after that and suffered a 1-point loss after being 31 points up at that time.
We have nobody in the VFL that can come close to filling his role.
But we have brought in Answerth and he is a completely different type of player.
He has performed, and as such should hold his spot.
The back 7 really are not the reason for our poor form.
They have held up pretty well under tremendous pressure.
This is because of our now slow midfield and slack defensive pressure of our forwards.
Throw in the forwards bad conversion rate and that group look despondent.

Our midfield badly misses the speed and zip of Ashcroft. He is still a way off and will need time to adjust.
Then we lose Bailey for 5 weeks our only other midfielder that has that speed and zip in his game.
Result another two embarrassing loses admittedly to top sides.
Midfield v GWS: McCluggage, Dunkley, Neale, Rayner, Zorko then Tunstill at 1/2 time who had 4 disposals.
Top ups used this year: Lyons & Dev (injured) no one with pace here.
Not used: Reville (has pace and zip) & Torrent not fast but coming along in the VFL. Maybe Sharp

They must roll the dice this week and play someone with some pace and that is Reville.
If it fails so be it, choose a sub also with some pace maybe Sharp in case.

The only other way to get some pace in the midfield is to move the chess board pieces around.
Zorko back to HB. That frees up Wilmot to wing or midfield.
If wing, then Fletcher can also run in the midfield. Berry could have very short stints.

Midfield mix;
(a): Neale, Dunkley, McCluggage with Reville & Rayner
(b): Neale, Dunkley, McCluggage with Wilmot & Rayner (maybe Berry small stints for Wilmot relief)
(c); Neale, Dunkley, McCluggage with Fletcher & Rayner (maybe Berry small stints for Fletcher relief)