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TheKITC

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Mar 7, 2009
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AFL Club
Carlton
Jarrad Waite?

Hear me out on this one. I know the bloke has been thrown from pillar to post early on in his career, playing KPD when needed, KPF when needed and more recently being settled up forward after his reco.

But a couple of things are making me think that he might be better utilised at times as something other than a permanent KPF.

Kreuzer's return from injury coupled Walker's stunning rise and the sub rule have made me consider a few things, as has Henderson's return and the possible pending return of O'hAilpin/Warnock.

How are we going to fit these guys into the side and will we be too tall?

Garlett, Betts and Walker aren't going anywhere.
Waite and Henderson are our current big targets, with Kreuzer to become a semi-regular down there. Setant was playing reasonable footy as a fwd/ruck and was our preference to Hampson for some matches. Warnock is also hovering around. Obviously we cannot play all of Warnock, O'hAilpin and Hampson, but I think at least one will be picked to play alongside Kreuzer.

One of our weapons this year has been our speed, particularly in the forward half, with Kreuzer coming back, I think the MC has some big decisions to make regarding the balance up forward.

I can't seem to shake the couple of games that Waite has played (against Richmond and Richo on the wing particularly) when he was used outside the KP spots and killed it.

I think Waite could be a deadly 'swingman', playing a very high, roaming half forward or wing, who could float forward and back when needed.

We know he is incredibly versatile and could provide an awkward match-up for opposition, hit up target coming forward as well as reliable defender when he needs to drop in a hole/third man up.

It would be a great luxury IMO, one that we might now be able to have.

What do you all think of this? I know if it aint broke, don't fix it but I also know that we cannot afford to be too top heavy up forward. We also need to have room up there for blokes like Robinson, Murphy, Judd etc. to spell as they have been doing during games with great effect.

What do people think of something like this, when match-ups, forms and injuries permit;

FB: Yarran Jamison Duigan
HB: Scotland Bower Russell
C: Simpson Curnow Waite
HF: Garlett Henderson Robinson
FF: *resting ruck* Walker Betts
R: Kreuzer Judd Murphy

Int: Gibbs Ellard Carrazzo Laidler


Obviously a lot depends on the effectiveness of the resting ruck. Ideally in this format, I think O'hAilpin fits to bill perfectly, granted Kreuzer is comfortable and able to be the # 1 ruck again. If not, Hampson/Warnock start ruck and Kreuzer starts forward.

Perhaps this isn't going to be ideal in all games, but I think it's something worth considering.

Let me have it guys :cool:
 
At least you didn't suggest Waite to CHB..so sick of that suggestion.

The club will settle Waite in the forward line for the rest of his career.
He'll make the occasional venture up the ground as part of his forward play
or if we have an injury or need to plug a hole (like Hendo does sometimes).

Not to mention that Jarrad's disposal and pressure just wouldn't be up to
scratch with our modern day high pressure/highly skilled game style.

Good get out clause (long marking target coming out of d50), outstanding
forward...but shouldn't be moved around any more.


IMO!!
 

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I'm in a position to release.
 
With Kreuzer coming back in, it opens us up to more options rather than just resting a ruck forward. Kreuze has the ability to play almost as an onballer and hunt the ball around the ground a bit, or even play a kick behind the play (like Cox and Naitanui often do).

Hammer/206 could ruck while Kreuze does a job around the ground. The resting ruck could therefore spend less time in the forwardline, giving Waite more flexibility to play the roving half forward role that he plays best at.
 
At least you didn't suggest Waite to CHB..so sick of that suggestion.

The club will settle Waite in the forward line for the rest of his career.
He'll make the occasional venture up the ground as part of his forward play
or if we have an injury or need to plug a hole (like Hendo does sometimes).

Not to mention that Jarrad's disposal and pressure just wouldn't be up to
scratch with our modern day high pressure/highly skilled game style.

Good get out clause (long marking target coming out of d50), outstanding
forward...but shouldn't be moved around any more.


IMO!!
I like your thinking. He is a very capable wingman and would cause headaches for any opposition, but his true value is in the forwardline. For a tall forward, he is extremely athletic and mobile, which suits our "forward press" as he offers a lot more when the ball hits the ground than his opponent. For a winger, his athletic advantage is diminished by the fact all wingers are pretty athletic.

Definitely think he should sporadically be used up the ground when Ratts thinks it's appropriate, but having big, mobile, athletic, strong-marking key forwards like Henderson and Waite is a great advantage in present day AFL and they complement our pacy mids and smalls perfectly.
 
I like the Idea of Hendo at FF and Kreuzer at CHF and happy with Betts and Garlett in the forward pockets. so that would leave the HFF for Walker and Waite.
I would love to see Hoops get a run too, maybe start him on the interchange.

Now that's a scary looking forward line!
 
Been a long time advocate of this...was always just a matter of when we could afford theluxury. As a hard running high forward flank he would be a nightmare match-up...if Hendo and AW were holding up their end of the bargain in the KPF roles it would be a hell of a lot of fun spending a few weeks to see if this would work.
 
I agree with most of what has been said so far. If you want to know whether Waite COULD go onto the wing and be a good player, then the answer is "likely". If the question is SHOULD he be put onto the wing, at this point in time, my answer is "no".

He is big and athletic, and he could play either position. However, that size/athleticism combination is what really makes him dangerous, and I think he can use that to his benefit more playing against key position defenders rather than wingers/midfielders, who are all likely to be quicker and more athletic than anyone Waite would get defended by as a key forward.

We really just don't have the depth of talls in the forward line either at this point to risk moving him. Yes we have Kreuzer coming back and yes he and Warnock can rest down in the forward line at times. However, both of those guys are really ruckmen who can pinch hit now and again in the forward line, and in my opinion, Hampson and O'hAilpin should not be considered as key forward options unless we have some injuries. They're really depth guys at this point. Add to that the fact that Henderson is only 21 or whatever and is just returning from injury, and our only other real tall forward options are the still raw Casboult and Mitchell, and I think we simply NEED Waite in the forward line too much to let him go, especially when our midfield depth is already so strong as it is.

On top of that, he is 28 now and that athleticism isn't going to always be there. As a winger/midfielder, he would NEED his athleticism more than as a key forward where he can also play one-on-one in marking contests as well. With that said, I think the he is more suited to a forward line spot as he gets older rather than playing on a wing. If we wanted to use him as a winger, we should have done so when he was younger and more physically capable of filling that role.
 
I like the Idea of Hendo at FF and Kreuzer at CHF and happy with Betts and Garlett in the forward pockets. so that would leave the HFF for Walker and Waite.
I would love to see Hoops get a run too, maybe start him on the interchange.

Now that's a scary looking forward line!



I've seen this mentioned before, but I really just don't get it. Why we would move a natural CHF of the future (Henderson) and put him at FF, and then move a big guy who would be more useful as a long marking target than up the ground at CHF (Kreuzer) and swap them around is just beyond me.
 
What do people think of something like this, when match-ups, forms and injuries permit;

FB: Yarran Jamison Duigan
HB: Scotland Bower Russell
C: Simpson Curnow Waite
HF: Garlett Henderson Robinson
FF: *resting ruck* Walker Betts
R: Kreuzer Judd Murphy

Int: Gibbs Ellard Carrazzo Laidler

Any 22 that has a player the quality of Bryce Gibbs starting on the pine is a seriously bloody good looking footy side, can't fault that.

Waite playing high half forward to centre and running back to goal on occassion is another string to the bow which opposition sides will struggle to match.

Henderson, Kreuz and Walker as marking targets inside 50 is headache enough for all sides, throw Waite as a wild card around the ground and in the 50 and all opposition wont know how to combat us, then they have to worry about stopping the midfield as well and quelling the influence of Yarran, Gibbs, Russell, Laidler and Jamo off the backline...good luck! Get excited ppl!!!
 

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I'd love to see Waite on the wing, however, with they way players move around the ground, and rotate, he gets up to the wings anyway.

Now it just means he's got better targets to kick it to when he gets it. :thumbsu:
 
Good post, but I think you will find that Jarrad already does this at times. Moves up the ground a fair bit. One would think this would only be happening more so now that Henderson is looking to settle up forward. Jarrad could become a real x-factor for us
 
:footy: Waite seems to enjoy his footy much more when allowed to run with the pill, he is a natural at being slippery and evasive - sorta', kinda' like a big white Yarran.

So, I reckon, him not feeling the pinch of being the (or one of the ) main targets up forward and expectation that goes with it will go along way to helping him curb his frustrated aggression which tends to land him in the shit at times.

No opposing side could afford to let him loose for too long, he can run, jump, catch a footy, push a wheelbarrow, in short, an all 'round talented footballer - who is pretty exciting to watch on the move. :footy:
 
Talk of being 'too tall' always amuses me on this board.

We don't actually have a power house tall forward set up.

Look at Collingwood - they play Wood, Brown, Dawes and Cloke. Two massive tanks up forward, and two rucking around the ground.

Four talls. We worry about having 3 or 4...
 
He's the only player on our list who you could call an AFL KPF at this point in time.

Leave him there.

Waite needs to remain up forward, with some possible time at CHB on a needs basis, Collingwood are clearly the benchmark team at the moment, not sure we are strong enough in terms of real quality key position talent that we would even consider Waite as a wingman at this stage of his career, against the best teams, with Henderson & Kruezer on the way back this should hopefully free up some of the workload Waite has had the first half of the season.
 
Waite is still far better than hendo and setant, so I don't know why we would not play him, considering we are going for a flag, and not rebuilding. Just wouldn't make sense.
 
Talk of being 'too tall' always amuses me on this board.

We don't actually have a power house tall forward set up.

Look at Collingwood - they play Wood, Brown, Dawes and Cloke. Two massive tanks up forward, and two rucking around the ground.

Four talls. We worry about having 3 or 4...

Jolly? (swap for Wood?)

Anyway, at the moment you'd expect:
At least 2 ruckmen from: Krooze, 206, Hampson and Irish
Waite
Henderson

That's at least 4 tall rucks/fwds right?
 
With Kreuzer coming back in, it opens us up to more options rather than just resting a ruck forward. Kreuze has the ability to play almost as an onballer and hunt the ball around the ground a bit, or even play a kick behind the play (like Cox and Naitanui often do).

Hammer/206 could ruck while Kreuze does a job around the ground. The resting ruck could therefore spend less time in the forwardline, giving Waite more flexibility to play the roving half forward role that he plays best at.

Don't you think playing as on baller, on top of the ruck (where he plays his best footy) is a fair workload for a bloke coming back from a knee reco?

Don't see the problem with him playing as this on-baller type (which Ratts initially said he would be doing when he returned) but in that case we need two others to do the ruck, again perhaps making us a bit too top heavy and costing us a running player.

Waite needs to remain up forward, with some possible time at CHB on a needs basis

Hate this suggestion whenever it comes up.

Never going to happen again IMO.

Collingwood are clearly the benchmark team at the moment, not sure we are strong enough in terms of real quality key position talent that we would even consider Waite as a wingman at this stage of his career, against the best teams, with Henderson & Kruezer on the way back this should hopefully free up some of the workload Waite has had the first half of the season.

Don't think we are going to be a premiership threat until we have the confidence in our structures and the way we play our brand of footy.

There is an element of how we match up against opposition clubs, particularly the good ones, but IMO it shouldn't be at the detriment of how we wish to play under Ratts.

Furthermore, I think going pacier and having more skilled players as well as some x factor types (Yarran, Garlett, Waite etc.) is an ideal way to break down Collingwood's disciplined, structured set ups and press.

Trying to go against the Pies with their style of game and match ups isn't going to work IMHO.

Talk of being 'too tall' always amuses me on this board.

We don't actually have a power house tall forward set up.

Look at Collingwood - they play Wood, Brown, Dawes and Cloke. Two massive tanks up forward, and two rucking around the ground.

Four talls. We worry about having 3 or 4...

Different club.
Different tactics.
Different set-ups.
Different players.

We've won with speed being a huge weapon of ours, particularly up forward. We can't base our structures on what works for other teams, because we are Carlton, not Collingwood, Hawthorn etc.
 
I somehow think we could utilise Waite better than purely as a forward, but he does a pretty doog job inside 50, i'd be pretty loathe to move him. I do like the idea of our forward line of Waite at CHF, Lachie at FF, and Walker playing as that 3rd tall. Wouldn't be out of the question to rotate Kreuzer and Hampson through there as well.

We'd really stretch the defence's of most sides, whilst having the advantage of having 4 pretty athletic big fellas in the team, plus Walker.
 
Deadset if I see Jarrad at CHB again, I'll be disgusted, not a CHBs arseh*le.

Could play on the wing, but not where we need him.

Also, am I the only one here who sees Walker as possible FF and not just a 3rd tall?

Modra-esque build. just sayin.
 

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