Adelaide Vs North - The start of their rebuilds

[Rich01]

This is partially true, early in 2019 there was a plan Scott constructed to have 6 first rounders between 2019-2020 (because he realised the list was incapable of winning a flag) which got him sacked.

On another note

Our finacial situation doesn't matter anymore and in a season where we were averaging only 1000 at our games we made a profit, surely we'll make more playing in front of 15,000 in Docklands at the minimum.

I think it’s great clubs are financially self sustaining. This year is a tough one to judge. Lots of job cuts and only 3-4 clubs didn’t rely on extra handouts from the AFL (don’t think North was one of these few). Wouldn’t expect that to happen again in 2021 so hard to compare 20 vs 21 with crowds).

In saying that, I dislike the fact some supporters believe that their clubs are so threatened, they can’t plan properly for a genuine tilt at the premiership. That goes against the spirit of this game.

Glad the Roos have gone the full rebuild finally though.

 

[Roby]

I would not be surprised if the Roos made the finals either this year or next year.

 

[shintemaster]

In saying that, I dislike the fact some supporters believe that their clubs are so threatened, they can’t plan properly for a genuine tilt at the premiership. That goes against the spirit of this game.

You might dislike it but plenty of clubs - including your own - are more than comfortable with it. They don't want competitors.

 

[Rich01]

You might dislike it but plenty of clubs - including your own - are more than comfortable with it. They don't want competitors.

Are they? Or is this just you reflecting on what they think? I haven’t seen Richmond publicly say this? Happy for you to drag up any official comment from my club to validate your claim though.

I also haven’t seen any proof that North was so threatened in the middle of the decade that they couldn’t afford to bottom out. Only some supporters expressing their fears on the matter.

My view is only a view. But it’s also the most obvious and logical one. The coach overated the list. Then fell on his sword when he finally realised.

 

[Instincts]

I would not be surprised if the Roos made the finals either this year or next year.

2021 Finals is obviously a strech IMO and would require almost everything to go out perfectly, 2022 finals I think is somewhat tangible since I expect the team to improve in 2021 and further in 2022 because we'll be getting injured players back, new recruits such as Corr and Stephenson and the most ready draftee Will Phillips alongside some pretty exciting others such as Spicer and Powell to name a couple.

 

[master bate]

Comben is a ruckman, the worst way to develop a ruckman is to play him as a key forward. This f’ed up Hale and Boyd's career. In hale's case, he got traded out to hawthorn revived his career.

When you don't have a key forward, its best not to force one to play in that position.

I'm not sure most North fans would agree with you there, he looks like he's got some forward ability just as much as in the ruck at this early stage of his career. Hale played a lot of forward as the back up ruck at the Hawks, I'd imagine that's about the best and only way to develop a young ruck these days. Larkey's going to be the main man, the 2nd tall will ruck and provide a contest forward.

 

[Instincts]

Comben is a ruckman, the worst way to develop a ruckman is to play him as a key forward. This f’ed up Hale and Boyd's career. In hale's case, he got traded out to hawthorn revived his career.

When you don't have a key forward, its best not to force one to play in that position.

Naughton was moved from key back to key forward and his development was stunted only by a terrible injury run at the end of 2019 and 2020, for a while in 2019 he looked like a generational talent and he still looks like he'll be a very good forward for the Dogs. I get that Comben is different and he's a ruck, but still, someone like Brown who I believe played ruck before he was drafted (I may need to get fact checked) is still a very good player as well

 

[Rad Roo]

Naughton was moved from key back to key forward and his development was stunted only by a terrible injury run at the end of 2019 and 2020, for a while in 2019 he looked like a generational talent and he still looks like he'll be a very good forward for the Dogs. I get that Comben is different and he's a ruck, but still, someone like Brown who I believe played ruck before he was drafted (I may need to get fact checked) is still a very good player as well

Oh yeah, no doubt, during the draft time, he was described as highly rated by the club to such an extent that we didn't bother to draft key forward. Also with the direction of the game, 1 key forward is more than enough. We got josh walker, he is decent player who could make a contest and bring the ball to the ground. It's the little and medium blokes who need to pick up their games more.

 

[Rad Roo]

Where have the facts been recorded that if the club bottomed out in the middle of last decade they would have folded or merged? I feel like I’ve missed a key piece of reporting here.

My view is that Coach Scott went all out for a flag mistakenly believing the list was much better than what it was. Then when it was obvious that he couldn’t sustain this, he bailed and handed the keys to Rhys Shaw.

As I said I might have missed some communication from the AFL or North at the time saying they couldn’t afford to bottom out. But if you have evidence to these facts you mentioned, that will help.

Well 2015 was very close to a GF had wells been not injured. Whether one could afford to bottom out or not, it's a matter of perception. During scott's time, perception mattered. If north bottomed out in the 2010 - 2019 period, afl would have accerelated the plan to move us becaues if we are a basketcase onfield and offield then something is going really wrong. At the very least, scott made sure we were a basketcase onfield, at least there were the carlton, melbourne, st kildas to fill in the bottom. I am actually a pro-relocation person btw but if we relocated, we would have missed out on the arden precint development, mind you 7 billion. Remember AFL want a big slice of that money and through us in that when we become more profitable, more money for the afl. Also, the middling finishes have dragged us over the line and now we can afford to bottom to nab a few top quality recruits to add them to the ones we got between 2016-2020. One of the biggest criticism was our recruiting from 2012-2015 but ever since then, they have been great top quality. I hope we nab another top 6 pick in 2021 and should be set.

 

[shintemaster]

Are they? Or is this just you reflecting on what they think? I haven’t seen Richmond publicly say this? Happy for you to drag up any official comment from my club to validate your claim though.

Do you see them fighting the status quo in any way whatsoever? Nope.

I also haven’t seen any proof that North was so threatened in the middle of the decade that they couldn’t afford to bottom out. Only some supporters expressing their fears on the matter.

I never claimed that, others may feel that way, I don't.

My view is only a view. But it’s also the most obvious and logical one. The coach overated the list. Then fell on his sword when he finally realised.

It may be logical to you from the outside but it's pretty far from the mark IMO. He didn't fall on his sword - he was dumped and allowed the dignity of choosing his exit due to service and the financial implications. He didn't just up and leave when he realised how far off they were - he tried to sell a rebuild 5 mins after following a completely different path.

 

[Rich01]

Do you see them fighting the status quo in any way whatsoever? Nope.


It may be logical to you from the outside but it's pretty far from the mark IMO. He didn't fall on his sword - he was dumped and allowed the dignity of choosing his exit due to service and the financial implications. He didn't just up and leave when he realised how far off they were - he tried to sell a rebuild 5 mins after following a completely different path.

I haven’t seen Richmond fighting for or against the status quo in this manner. So I can’t assume they have a view on it like you think they do. Correct me if I’m wrong and they have made public comment however.

Your view on Scott and his end at your club is valid, as a personal view. He claimed in the media he was stepping down, which the club accepted. If you have the view he was sacked, that’s fine. It’s made on inference and innuendo. To be honest I’m not righteously defending this. I actually think it’s astounding both club and coach tried to hold a list that simply wasn’t good enough for so long. When they both realised this to be the case, the s**t hit the fan and someone had to take responsibility. Most casual observers called this well before the club or coach did. Hence the turnover in staff.

 

[The Rocks]

My philosophy is draft talls and KPP first! Establish your spine! Midfield guns can be added after and look at Rowell, Brayshaw, Serong ect, solid midfield talent takes far less years of development to shine.

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[Freomaniac]

This is going to overwhelmingly in favour of NM

Despite that, I think we’ve got some underrated young talent. You forgot Lachie Sholl and Keays for instance. McPherson, Schoenberg and Hamill all showed when they were in the side why they’re exciting players. Himmelberg really kicked on this year, too, and the likes of Fogarty and Jones have shown enough to me that they’ll be good in time

I’m very happy with how we’re going, but yes on paper NM’s talent is real solid

before the national draft, I would of favoured North.

But after the national draft, I wouldn't mind having the crows list for the next 2 or 3 years.

Don't get me wrong, I think north drafted ok.


But I like what the crows brought in. Yeah Tilthorpe was always going to the crows.

I'm a south Adelaide fan so I am delighted he got on an AFL list. Brad Rowe is a good pick up too. I saw him tear up south Adelaide in the 2nd half of that SANFL preliminary final.

Phoenix Spicer is another south Adelaide player too, ironically drafted to North.

 

[Instincts]

before the national draft, I would of favoured North.

But after the national draft, I wouldn't mind having the crows list for the next 2 or 3 years.

Don't get me wrong, I think north drafted ok.


But I like what the crows brought in. Yeah Tilthorpe was always going to the crows.

I'm a south Adelaide fan so I am delighted he got on an AFL list. Brad Rowe is a good pick up too. I saw him tear up south Adelaide in the 2nd half of that SANFL preliminary final.

Phoenix Spicer is another south Adelaide player too, ironically drafted to North.

You seem quite informed on draftees from SA.

I'd like to know your in-depth take on Powell if you've watched him since he was so good statisically it seems like he would have been a top 10 pick.

 

[Freomaniac]

My philosophy is draft talls and KPP first! Establish your spine! Midfield guns can be added after and look at Rowell, Brayshaw, Serong ect, solid midfield talent takes far less years of development to shine.

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Agreed..... As I have posted when teams go through a 3-5 year rebuilding period, they usually get the Key position playing stocks in the 1st year and then the mids the. Next year and build around them for the next 3-5 years.

I have posted the 2 main options on how most teams get their KPPS.

Option 1 just get all your key position players in the 1st year. So worse case scenario So either get that key forward in the 1st Round and key defender in the 2nd round or the other way round, get the tall defender in the 1st and then tall forward in the. 2nd round. Most teams get their ruckman in the rookie list too.Then in the 2nd year, get a bunch of talented mids.

option 2 is starting at the back then work your way in the front. So spend the 1st year of the rebuild getting a couple of tall defenders then a development ruck in the rookie list.

then in the 2nd year use the 1st rounder on the best KPF available then the 2nd rounder on the best KPF ruck

 

[Freomaniac]

You seem quite informed on draftees from SA.

I'd like to know your in-depth take on Powell if you've watched him since he was so good statisically it seems like he would have been a top 10 pick.

To be brutally honest, I havent seen too many of his games. I have seen a couple of under 18 games when sturt played south this year.

Yes he is a solid inside mid. But his biggest strength in my opinion is he is a very good set shot at goal. I didnt think he was top 10. I half expected him to be taken around 11-20.

watching this youtube clip here....




However, I can tell you about the other SA kid you picked From South Adelaide in Phoenix Spicer.

Again, I have seen him in a couple of games. I didnt expected him to get drafted in the National Draft, Maybe in the Rookie list. The bloke is only 172 cm. He seems solid. Got some pace and some evasive skills. I dont mind his ground work too. Can play on a forward flank but I see him as a small crumbling forward like Hayden Ballantyne

Hayden Ballantyne

Age

36

Ht

173cm

Wt

79kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.7

3star

K

9.2

4star

HB

3.6

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

3.1

5star

G

1.5

5star

No current season stats available

D

11.6

3star

K

8.2

4star

HB

3.4

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

1.2

3star

G

0.8

4star

. Or you can play him as a dashing forward flanker like chad Wingard

20

Chad Wingard

Age

30

Ht

183cm

Wt

80kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

11.0

4star

HB

7.3

5star

M

3.5

4star

T

2.9

4star

G

1.5

5star

No current season stats available

D

10.2

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

5.6

4star

M

1.6

2star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.2

3star

or Michael Walters

10

Michael Walters

Age

33

Ht

176cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.2

4star

K

11.0

4star

HB

6.2

4star

M

3.9

4star

T

2.9

4star

G

1.7

5star

D

20.9

5star

K

11.8

5star

HB

9.1

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

3.3

4star

G

1.0

4star

D

13.0

4star

K

9.4

4star

HB

3.6

3star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.8

4star

G

0.8

4star

.

I didnt expect him to be taken at pick 42 due to his height. He has some talent though.



Seems North got 2 solid players.

Again, I might be a bit Biased due to Being a South Adelaide fan. But Phoenix Spicer looks Alright.

 

[Psicosis]

It will be interesting to reflect on this thread in a couple years time. It appears one club (North) have gone with rebuilding midfield first, whilst the other club (Adelaide) have focused on spine first.

I have North ahead, but I do think this also comes down to the fact we have a couple years more of draft picks. I concur with the thoughts re Brad Scott and believe that we missed the opportunity to invest more in the draft between 2016-2018 due to his influence. I also think that if some of his "big fish" trades paid off, we would be in a much more dire position from a u22 perspective and resemble the Hawks - I have no doubt we would have traded picks for players at that time, which would have been a disaster for mine.

Defense:
Norths most mature line, with Tarrant (31) in his last couple years + Corr (26) & McDonald (26) who should also give us a quality 5 years. It is also now probably our weakest area from a u22 perspective. I know Norths supporters are breathing a sigh of relief that Mckay (22) came on as he did this year. We still need some skilled running half backs, and there are high hopes the Perez (19) becomes that - loved what he showed this year. Question marks on how Bonar (21), Hayden (21) & L.Young (21), and how they develop. I think the addition of Corr is a great one as it provides us with a safety net to develop a raw KPD we pick up in the next couple drafts.

Midfield:
The line which has long been our weakest, is now shaping as our strongest from an u22 perspective - My biased opinion is that Simpkin (22), LDU (21) & Phillips (18, albeit never played a game) can all be A-Graders. It would be one of the stronger u22 starting midfields in the competition. Tom Powell (18) also looks a great prospect as we need a real ball pig accumulator. There has always been the hope that some of our talented flanker types can become midfielders - Zurhaar (22), Thomas (20), Stephenson (21), Scott (20). I'm not too concerned about whether they do - I'd like for most of them to be able to rotate onto a wing though. We will add one of the highly touted mids next year with our first round also. From a mature age perspective, Cunnington (29) will be critical to these kids development over the coming years. It is also going to be very interesting to see what happens with Anderson (26) & Dumont (25) as these kids develop. Goldstein to ruck for the next couple years, however there is a lot hinging on the development of Xerri (21) - I'm not yet convinced he will make it, but will see.

Forward:
I'm quite bullish on our forward line despite it being our youngest & the elephant in the room, being that there is a long hinged on the success of Larkey (22) & Comben (20). Larkey is proven at AFL level, Comben is not yet, however the club rates him very highly internally. I personally am glad we passed on Logan McDonald, as I'd prefer we build a strong midfield foundation and if Comben doesn't pull through, we use FA/Trade to get Larkey a mate. I already touched on our flanks, but this is a pretty strong area for us in Stephenson (21), Taylor (20), Zurhaar (22), Thomas (20) & now Ford (18). Small forwards have been quite a gap in our list for a while, so I'll be interested to see how Mahoney (19), Spicer (18) & Lazarro (18, will be more of a mid) develop.

The positive is that, both sides will be in the bottom few next year & will likely add Sinn & Horne to their midfields.

 

[Farang83150]

Feels like nth have been in a rebuild for years.

 

[The Nostradamus]

Feels like nth have been in a rebuild for years.

Finals 2014-2016

2017 is when it started
So yeah 3 years now, 1 more year near the bottom then we launch ala lions

 

[banzai]

Our finacial situation doesn't matter anymore and in a season where we were averaging only 1000 at our games we made a profit, surely we'll make more playing in front of 15,000 in Docklands at the minimum.

Everyone was on pay cuts this year though, that's why teams could make money despite minimal crowds.

 

[Handsome.B.Wonderful]

Comben is a ruckman, the worst way to develop a ruckman is to play him as a key forward. This f’ed up Hale and Boyd's career. In hale's case, he got traded out to hawthorn revived his career.

When you don't have a key forward, its best not to force one to play in that position.

Hale was not a ruckman, spent all of his juniors playing as a forward.

 

[Pykie]

Comben is a ruckman, the worst way to develop a ruckman is to play him as a key forward. This f’ed up Hale and Boyd's career. In hale's case, he got traded out to hawthorn revived his career.

When you don't have a key forward, its best not to force one to play in that position.

Comben is not a ruckman. In fact he's more likely to become a CHB than he is a ruckman.

Have you ever seen him move and his build?

He gave Josh Walker a bath during pre-season intraclubs of 2019 playing as a FF/CHF, before he sat out training with hot spots in his back.

 

[Rad Roo]

Comben is not a ruckman. In fact he's more likely to become a CHB than he is a ruckman.

Have you ever seen him move and his build?

He gave Josh Walker a bath during pre-season intraclubs of 2019 playing as a FF/CHF, before he sat out training with hot spots in his back.

alité, then his training as a key back man is true and this telles our defensive stock with him and Mackay the key pillar moving forward.

 

[Rad Roo]

Hale was not a ruckman, spent all of his juniors playing as a forward.

Its AFL that counts....and he ain’t a key forward at AFL level.

 

[The Rocks]

Agreed..... As I have posted when teams go through a 3-5 year rebuilding period, they usually get the Key position playing stocks in the 1st year and then the mids the. Next year and build around them for the next 3-5 years.

I have posted the 2 main options on how most teams get their KPPS.

Option 1 just get all your key position players in the 1st year. So worse case scenario So either get that key forward in the 1st Round and key defender in the 2nd round or the other way round, get the tall defender in the 1st and then tall forward in the. 2nd round. Most teams get their ruckman in the rookie list too.Then in the 2nd year, get a bunch of talented mids.

option 2 is starting at the back then work your way in the front. So spend the 1st year of the rebuild getting a couple of tall defenders then a development ruck in the rookie list.

then in the 2nd year use the 1st rounder on the best KPF available then the 2nd rounder on the best KPF ruck

I like this philosophy especially the drafting of key defensive backs first. All else fails you have the solid defence to build upon!

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