Analysis The Rebuilds of Geelong and Richmond and their Future Prospects
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- Apr 3, 2006
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Fair enough, Cats probably not 12 years older anyway, just need to keep you guys from getting too far ahead of yourselves for your own good.
For the record, Geelong's side last week vs Brisbane was on average 3 months younger than the Lions, and 4 months older than tonight's Tigers.
Art Vandelay_
TheBrownDog
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MRJ and Dow looking alright tonight.
Grockadoc
Brownlow Medallist
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Maurice's last month of football has been very good and is getting better each week. His pressure was the benchmark of his game, but he is now getting involved up the ground, going through the midfield and hitting the scoreboard. He still lacks some polish when kicking for goal, but he could have had 4 goals tonight as he missed some pretty basic chances. Worked hard with Kane Lambert over the offseason to build his tank and running patterns and it seems to be paying dividends.
Dow has shown he can play at the level, s long as he has mids around him who are bigger and can support his lack of defensive transition. Got exposed without Taranto, Hopper and Prestia over the past few weeks, but Hopper made our midfield look so much better before his hammy went and as a result Dow looked decent again. My only gripe is he doesn't do a lot with the ball. First instinct is to handball off and sometimes gives to a player under immediate pressure. Needs to back himself a little more.
It is. Right up until you have to endure a Richmond supporter reminding you of the longest trail of finals carnage of any pair of teams in the competition's rich and long history. And it is gruesome.
Which I guess explains why all the Cats supporters here have to remind and reassure each other they are having a good time and everything is hunky dory.
You remember 4 flags. Many TIger supporters recall twice that many. You guys will get there, your last 4 flags took you 61 years, so 2085 not taking into account there are now more teams in the competition. But by then, the Tigers will have had their usual 5 flag epoch of course.
It must suck to be you really.
Good to see you've given up on what the thread is actually about waffling on like this you ignorant dip sh!t. Figures are wrong too. As usual.
Richmond just played in one of the worst skilled matches of AFL ever..... And ended up losing it significantly.
Hopper on a 7 year deal???? No thanks!
Hopper on a 7 year deal???? No thanks!
- Nov 28, 2017
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He was best on ground till he got injured? did you even watch the game injuries hurting us we need a new fitness boss.
Plety to like amongst the unproven Tigers last night. They just need to keep playing together and over time the connections between them will get more fluent.
The unproven 23-25yo contingent Young, Miller, Lefau all showed some nice things amongst a few errors as well. These guys won' be superstars but you can see how they could get their jobs done decently in a good team. Mansell is approaching that age group as well at 23 yrs 10 months and ditto for him. Balta and Ross are two injured players who can return to boost this age bracket a bit.
22yo's Dow and Ralphsmith both took a step forward. If either or both of them can get to the level required in their roles consistently, it would hugely assist Richmond's future prospects.
21yo's Rioli Jnr is really starting to shine, he should only keep improving. Banks quieter and little impact, but a couple of nice passages and showed a bit of dash. Sonsie back to the VFL and into the midfield was dominant. The club doesn't seem to think he is ready to play midfield in the AFL, but it is likely either him or McAuliffe that will replace Hopper next week in the midfield. Pretty confident Sonsie will be a tidy player.
20yo Brown looked tidy again. It is very early days and will need to construct a tank, but this guy looks class.
19yo Campbell was quieter this week but the club will be rapt with how he is going in terms of the future. Kaleb Smith is a pretty neat half back coming along nicely with another strong game in the VFL. There are some suggestions he will be held back from AFL a while longer while his loads are managed after foot fractures ruined his first season. McAuliffe has made a good impression early - budding inside mid will be a few years off being able to get on top of that role at AFL level.
Other Young players:
22yo Coulthard seems to have built back to near his best in the VFL after a pr-season injury setback, would play a similar role to Campbell, and should be ready when Campbell needs a rest.
23yo Koschitzke got on the end of a few in the VFL, looks to have had a decent overall game there, but hasn't looked up to being an AFL key forward so far at Richmond.
21yo's Bauer & Trezise should return from injury in the VFL in coming weeks, Bauer a 3rd tall either end who is a very good mark, Trezise would play a similar role to Broad.
23yo Cumberland unsure whether his career has a pulse. The main positive thing happening for him is he seems to be really improving his defensive game, but hasn't provided the attacking damage at the same time.
23yo Ryan playing well in the VFL both ruck and forward. Should be Richmond's next ruckman after Nankervis, so has plenty of time to build his body strength.
19yo Steely Green. Doing ok in the VFL team as a small forward mainly. Unlikely to be a star but looks a potentially useful player. Unsure of what role he would fill in an AFL team of the future.
Long term injured:
21yo Gibcus. Shown plenty enough to say he is a player of the future, hopefully returns well from his ACL and would expect 2026 onwards he should be a quality footballer.
20yo Clarke, Recent ACL, has shown plenty. Another who should be realy hitting his straps from 2026 onwards.
24yo Mate Colina 7 ft+ giant cousin of Balta who I would love to see get a run of games at some point. Just keeps getting back injuries. He has some pretty serious running ability for his size, cat B project player.
18yo Fawcett. Young key forward. Just cannot comment yet as not seen in a Richmond jumper. Has back issues.
The unproven 23-25yo contingent Young, Miller, Lefau all showed some nice things amongst a few errors as well. These guys won' be superstars but you can see how they could get their jobs done decently in a good team. Mansell is approaching that age group as well at 23 yrs 10 months and ditto for him. Balta and Ross are two injured players who can return to boost this age bracket a bit.
22yo's Dow and Ralphsmith both took a step forward. If either or both of them can get to the level required in their roles consistently, it would hugely assist Richmond's future prospects.
21yo's Rioli Jnr is really starting to shine, he should only keep improving. Banks quieter and little impact, but a couple of nice passages and showed a bit of dash. Sonsie back to the VFL and into the midfield was dominant. The club doesn't seem to think he is ready to play midfield in the AFL, but it is likely either him or McAuliffe that will replace Hopper next week in the midfield. Pretty confident Sonsie will be a tidy player.
20yo Brown looked tidy again. It is very early days and will need to construct a tank, but this guy looks class.
19yo Campbell was quieter this week but the club will be rapt with how he is going in terms of the future. Kaleb Smith is a pretty neat half back coming along nicely with another strong game in the VFL. There are some suggestions he will be held back from AFL a while longer while his loads are managed after foot fractures ruined his first season. McAuliffe has made a good impression early - budding inside mid will be a few years off being able to get on top of that role at AFL level.
Other Young players:
22yo Coulthard seems to have built back to near his best in the VFL after a pr-season injury setback, would play a similar role to Campbell, and should be ready when Campbell needs a rest.
23yo Koschitzke got on the end of a few in the VFL, looks to have had a decent overall game there, but hasn't looked up to being an AFL key forward so far at Richmond.
21yo's Bauer & Trezise should return from injury in the VFL in coming weeks, Bauer a 3rd tall either end who is a very good mark, Trezise would play a similar role to Broad.
23yo Cumberland unsure whether his career has a pulse. The main positive thing happening for him is he seems to be really improving his defensive game, but hasn't provided the attacking damage at the same time.
23yo Ryan playing well in the VFL both ruck and forward. Should be Richmond's next ruckman after Nankervis, so has plenty of time to build his body strength.
19yo Steely Green. Doing ok in the VFL team as a small forward mainly. Unlikely to be a star but looks a potentially useful player. Unsure of what role he would fill in an AFL team of the future.
Long term injured:
21yo Gibcus. Shown plenty enough to say he is a player of the future, hopefully returns well from his ACL and would expect 2026 onwards he should be a quality footballer.
20yo Clarke, Recent ACL, has shown plenty. Another who should be realy hitting his straps from 2026 onwards.
24yo Mate Colina 7 ft+ giant cousin of Balta who I would love to see get a run of games at some point. Just keeps getting back injuries. He has some pretty serious running ability for his size, cat B project player.
18yo Fawcett. Young key forward. Just cannot comment yet as not seen in a Richmond jumper. Has back issues.
Hopper certainly wasn't BOG until then. Absolute ball magnet but 6 turnovers compared to 11 effective disposals, going at 47% disposal efficiency with just 2 score involvements is the definition of butchering it.
This is everything wrong with football, the manic focus on disposals but where is the efficiency, precision and hurt factor? When Hopper gets it I am already summing up how the opposition are going to get it back and score. Luckily Melbourne themselves had an absolute shocker with ball in hand too.
They're having a crack, which is all you can ask. So are the veterans to be fair. There just isn't much quality, even from players you'd expect there to be. It is an odd phenomena that Richmond are dragging most opponents down to this scrappy level though and having fairly competitive matches. So their pressure must be good and/or complacency is infectious in the AFL right now. When Melbourne woke up they piled on goals at will. But it looked like a bottom 2 clash for most of the night.
Elite skills and strong decision making need to be injected into the team and prioritised in the draft. There are too many good honest battlers.
Geez Richmond really saved us from ourselves by 'stealing' Hopper from us.
We'd almost certainly have had to give up a similar bounty (1st + 2nd) so that's the Bruhn and Henry picks gone. And his deal would probably mean we don't have the cash to get the Bowes dream deal over the line.
So 'missing out' on Hopper netted us Bruhn, Henry, Bowes and Clark. Four hopefully key components of the regeneration instead of a 27 year old who can't get on the park.
A real Sliding Doors moment.
We'd almost certainly have had to give up a similar bounty (1st + 2nd) so that's the Bruhn and Henry picks gone. And his deal would probably mean we don't have the cash to get the Bowes dream deal over the line.
So 'missing out' on Hopper netted us Bruhn, Henry, Bowes and Clark. Four hopefully key components of the regeneration instead of a 27 year old who can't get on the park.
A real Sliding Doors moment.
Didn't they trade us the pick for Holmes as well?
As others have rightly called out, Ryan missing when Naismith is picked is the biggest selection head scratcher.
The only thought was maybe against Gawn and May two very hardened physical bodies they felt Ryan would struggle to compete. He still needs some protein shakes when you look at him it's quite obvious.
He did have another strong game in the VFL though where our side is doing quite well. Expecting that he's pretty much banging the door down and will force a change to break into the side which is a good thing.
If he's not there next week and Naismith is, there's a real puzzle or something we're not seeing on the surface. There's no logical reason as to why we don't play him.
Mind you Kozi did kick 4.0 in a win yesterday so that may push him ahead of Ryan for next week.
The only thought was maybe against Gawn and May two very hardened physical bodies they felt Ryan would struggle to compete. He still needs some protein shakes when you look at him it's quite obvious.
He did have another strong game in the VFL though where our side is doing quite well. Expecting that he's pretty much banging the door down and will force a change to break into the side which is a good thing.
If he's not there next week and Naismith is, there's a real puzzle or something we're not seeing on the surface. There's no logical reason as to why we don't play him.
Mind you Kozi did kick 4.0 in a win yesterday so that may push him ahead of Ryan for next week.
- Jun 19, 2006
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Yep. Massive sliding doors moment.
Could've had Holmes who would be pushing AA right now as a 21 year old. Even then they could've picked Van Rooyen with the pick we gave them. He's a guy you can build a forward line around and Richmond are desperately lacking young key position players.
Instead they picked Tom Brown. Who uses it well. But looks pretty suspect defensively. He's still got time to develop but right now it looks like a huge what if moment for the Tiger recruiters.
- Jun 19, 2006
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I genuinely feel for Hopper. He's a competitor who tries his guts out.
But he was sold an absolute lemon by Hardwick. Hardwick realised and pissed off 6 months into his 7 year deal and now his body is letting him down and he's the focus of a lot of criticism that deservedly should be aimed at Hardwick.
Now he's 27. He can't get on the field without breaking down. His contract means he's absolutely stuck at Richmond while a bunch of their better players are either on the verge of retirement or rumoured to be moving on (Baker, Broad. Maybe Rioli). They're clearly not going to be competitive over the next few years.
He's got a few years of being the battering ram in midfield for a struggling team. And that's if he can get on the park. I'm sure that's not what he envisaged when he signed.
If Richmond nail their drafting from here he'll probably be 31+ before they really start to climb again by which time he's long odds to be physically able to compete given the injuries.
But he was sold an absolute lemon by Hardwick. Hardwick realised and pissed off 6 months into his 7 year deal and now his body is letting him down and he's the focus of a lot of criticism that deservedly should be aimed at Hardwick.
Now he's 27. He can't get on the field without breaking down. His contract means he's absolutely stuck at Richmond while a bunch of their better players are either on the verge of retirement or rumoured to be moving on (Baker, Broad. Maybe Rioli). They're clearly not going to be competitive over the next few years.
He's got a few years of being the battering ram in midfield for a struggling team. And that's if he can get on the park. I'm sure that's not what he envisaged when he signed.
If Richmond nail their drafting from here he'll probably be 31+ before they really start to climb again by which time he's long odds to be physically able to compete given the injuries.
Kobe Gryant
In memoriam of 'The Cliff™' Est: 2011-TBC
Said it at the time, he was 25 year old with a 30 year olds body. Did not want.
So glad the Tigers were stupid enough to add the extra $$$ and years, even if it meant him being 'stolen' from us.
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If you're hanging your future on that youth....yuck.
Kobe Gryant
In memoriam of 'The Cliff™' Est: 2011-TBC
In terms of youth, they're like the 2015 Blues but they don't even have a super young Cripps to make it all look a little better.
They're a long way off, and I highly doubt they're getting a superdraft in a few months of Weitering, Curnow, & McKay like the Blues did.
MR is just going through the 5 stages of grief. Ignore him.
Some of his Tugger mates have reached the acceptance stage, while he's still stuck in denial.
I would hereby like to congratulate the rebuilding Geelong FC on suddenly turning 27 years 10 months old on average and including 1 player with under 50 games experience for the game against Carlton this week.
- Apr 3, 2006
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I would hereby like to congratulate the rebuilding Geelong FC on suddenly turning 27 years 10 months old on average and including 1 player with under 50 games experience for the game against Carlton this week.
Have returned some veterans this week. Some of us enjoy winning games.
Sttew
Brownlow Medallist
Wasn’t it last year that CEO, Brendon Gale declared he wanted Richmond to be like Geelong and be a consistent finals contender? Look how that has turned out. Three premierships flanked on either side by periods of cellar dwelling.
Richmond is really just performing as the AFL would like to see any premiership team perform. A short period of dominance and then a long rebuild. Teams like Sydney, Geelong and Collingwood are the exception. If Geelong plays finals this year it will be 17 seasons out of 19 since 2004. That’s what Gale was talking about...
Richmond is really just performing as the AFL would like to see any premiership team perform. A short period of dominance and then a long rebuild. Teams like Sydney, Geelong and Collingwood are the exception. If Geelong plays finals this year it will be 17 seasons out of 19 since 2004. That’s what Gale was talking about...
Those teams have won 8 Grand Finals between them over the last 61 seasons.
Richmond has won 8 Grand Finals on their own over the last 57 seasons.
The CEO's of Collingwood, Geelong and Swans should be publicly declaring they want to be more like Richmond.
It must feel great to be young and terrible again.I would hereby like to congratulate the rebuilding Geelong FC on suddenly turning 27 years 10 months old on average and including 1 player with under 50 games experience for the game against Carlton this week.
This week it is the most mature Cats side this year for sure. It's a big game.
30+ year olds: 8 players (you keep saying it's 10 in our best 23)
24-28 year olds: 10 players
18-23 year olds: 5 players (4 already with 50+ games experience, as you say...and imply it's a bad thing)
Conway, Neale, Mullin, Clark and COS have gotten some exposure this year. Knevitt should get his chance.
Things are looking pretty good. 15 players aged 28 or younger actually makes it less grandpa-ish than 2022. There's plenty in their prime or taking strides forward from their early years.
