Preview 2024 Rd 9 Carlton vs Melbourne Thursday 9th May 7:30PM @ MCG

[Aphrodite]

Team is in …


IN: Ollie Hollands, Brodie Kemp, Jack Martin

21

Jack Martin

Age

29

Ht

186cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.2

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

6.3

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

3.7

5star

G

0.9

4star

D

14.9

4star

K

7.9

3star

HB

7.0

4star

M

4.3

4star

T

3.6

4star

G

1.1

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

4.6

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.0

4star

G

0.6

3star

, Mitch McGovern

11

Mitch Mcgovern

Age

29

Ht

190cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.1

3star

K

7.2

3star

HB

2.9

3star

M

4.6

4star

T

2.2

4star

MG

189.8

3star

D

7.6

2star

K

6.5

3star

HB

1.1

1star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.9

3star

MG

179.6

3star

D

10.8

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

4.0

4star

T

3.0

5star

MG

218.0

4star

OUT: Zac Williams (glute soreness), David Cuningham

28

David Cuningham

Age

27

Ht

183cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.3

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

3.3

5star

G

0.5

3star

D

12.1

3star

K

6.6

3star

HB

5.6

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.1

3star

G

0.4

3star

D

11.8

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

5.6

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

5.6

5star

G

0.4

3star

, Orazio Fantasia

14

Orazio Fantasia

Age

28

Ht

180cm

Wt

73kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.6

3star

K

7.4

3star

HB

6.2

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

3.1

5star

G

1.4

5star

D

9.8

2star

K

5.4

2star

HB

4.4

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.2

2star

G

0.2

3star

D

12.0

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

7.4

5star

M

3.4

4star

T

2.2

4star

G

0.0

1star

, Lewis Young

33

Lewis Young

Age

25

Ht

202cm

Wt

99kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.6

3star

K

7.5

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

4.4

4star

T

1.6

4star

MG

197.9

3star

D

4.0

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

1.0

1star

M

3.0

3star

T

0.0

1star

MG

26.0

1star

D

14.4

4star

K

8.2

4star

HB

6.2

4star

M

6.4

5star

T

2.0

4star

MG

181.6

3star

AFL team selection: Blues recall four

Carlton's Round 9 team is in.

www.carltonfc.com.au

Round 9 team v Melbourne
Backs:	Brodie Kemp	Jacob Weitering	Lachie Cowan
Half-backs:	Alex Cincotta	Mitch McGovern	Nic Newman
Centreline:	Ollie Hollands	Patrick Cripps	Blake Acres
Half-forwards:	Jack Martin	Harry McKay	Elijah Hollands
Forwards:	Matthew Owies	Charlie Curnow	Tom De Koning
Followers:	Marc Pittonet	Sam Walsh	Matthew Kennedy
Interchange:	Jordan Boyd	Adam Cerra	Matthew Cottrell
	Corey Durdin	George Hewett
Emergencies:	David Cuningham	Orazio Fantasia	Lewis Young

 

[JustaBattler]

I had forgotten about that Hewett passage. Coping mechanism. That was truly a bizarre decision

I rewatch games in slow motion - both Geelong and Collingwood rewatches were very painful for different reasons- both handed to them on a platter (IMO) and that is the worst feeling...I can handle the team being beaten by a better team on teh day- but to go out of your way to lose - not a buyer of that at all.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

I rewatch games in slow motion - both Geelong and Collingwood rewatches were very painful for different reasons- both handed to them on a platter (IMO) and that is the worst feeling...I can handle the team being beaten by a better team on teh day- but to go out of your way to lose - not a buyer of that at all.

That's the source of the frustration. Nail on the head. Hats off to you for putting yourself through that. I would watch an NFL styled 'all-22' if there was such a thing. Choose which end to watch from and be able to see a more birds eye view of the game. What players are doing off ball etc. But until that exists. I won't re-live that frustration hah

 

[bigblueboy]

Speed all other things being equal is a definite advantage - but all other things being equal is a fantasy. Every team needs a balance of attributes and the balance needs to be employed well and executed upon.

The only overriding factor that wins games is: [ number of scoring opportunities X conversion factor.] V [opposition same equation] - NOTHING else in any game is an "overriding factor"

Generally speaking you want fast and skillful flankers ( runners) and strong and skillful ball getters/winners and stoppers - that is it - big deal not rocket science.

Colingwood were given the game against Carlton on. a plate in three 'moments' none of which had ANYTHING to do with leg speed it all happened in the last 3 minutes and none of the decisive moments had anything to do with 'leg speed' missing from Carlton

1. No one understanding that Sidebottom couldn't make a 55 meter kick and therefore was likely to look for a pass off - and no one covering Pendelbury that really speedy fast super swift pendelbury bloke who was allowed to wander into vacant space a big wide open lovely picnic ground and receive a dinky little kick from his mate who cant kick it 50 meters for goal let alone 55 - Sidebottom - that was BRAIN FART #1 - absolutely NOTHING to do with leg speed - and everything to do with footy nouse.

2. BRAINF FART #2 was Harry McKay under minimal pressure CHOOSING to kick to top of arc instead of to a ONE ON ONE Charlie in the goals square - even a halved contest would; have seen Carlton own the territory for the least two minutes and game over - even a clean win from Collingwood there would have seen them have to make up an extra 50 meters giving Carlton more time to set up behind the ball - instead Harry decides to play to Cllingwood's advantage - and give them a chance to WIN the game

3. BRAIN FART#3 Daicos was allowed to run around a ball up into open space by Walsh and Daicos converts - schoolboy stuff as others have pointed out and was obvious on replay...again lack of mouse.

SO Collingwood's superior leg speed added up to a one goal win at the death - but Carlton was in the lead until the defensive collective (a) didn't understand that old man Sidebottom was going to look for a pass and (b) allowed old man slow as a. snail Pendelbury to take an uncontested mark from a dinky 20 meter kick...

so much for your Collingwood win via speed analysis.

#1 Cuningham guarding space (as they are directed to do) but with no sense of understanding or commitment to thinking for himself that the guy coming into his area is a threat. Almost criminal neglect.
The irony of #2 is that supporters are begging for our players to lower the eyes and hit up oncoming targets rather than bombing it long. Harry made a good decision in my view. The execution was terrible and ultimately costly.
#3 Yes Walsh was found out ... but what about our structures around the front of the contest? Non-existent.
Voss and Macrae both talk about moments ... smart beats fast 9/10.

 

[JustaBattler]

#1 Cuningham guarding space (as they are directed to do) but with no sense of understanding or commitment to thinking for himself that the guy coming into his area is a threat. Almost criminal neglect.
The irony of #2 is that supporters are begging for our players to lower the eyes and hit up oncoming targets rather than bombing it long. Harry made a good decision in my view. The execution was terrible and ultimately costly.
#3 Yes Walsh was found out ... but what about our structures around the front of the contest? Non-existent.
Voss and Macrae both talk about moments ... smart beats fast 9/10.

My only relief comes from the thought that the team hasn't been able to play as a consistent line up all year due to injuries and unavailability....

 

[Blue Reaper]

Also need to consider who we’ve lost to & by how much - it’s not that simple.

Against Melb who play tall - I prefer we play two rucks.

Pitto goes Godly for the first half & bang into Gawn as much as possible.

TDK playing forward to help stretch May/Lever and create better opportunities for Charles & Harrison.

TDK moving into the ruck second half - Pitto subbed and runner added if needed.

This is probably where I’m at with the two ruck situation.

Principally, I preferred TDK & Harry, but absolute kudos to Pitt with the way he’s played. Can’t really fault him. And TDK gives us so much versatility. Against Dees, both play, potentially as you’ve outlined.

And I really want to see how both rucks work when we have a healthier and more potent starting-23. Martin, Fog, Saad & McGovern provide an entirely different dynamic and more efficient transition & I50 entry.

But I think more evidence is needed.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

#1 Cuningham guarding space (as they are directed to do) but with no sense of understanding or commitment to thinking for himself that the guy coming into his area is a threat. Almost criminal neglect.
The irony of #2 is that supporters are begging for our players to lower the eyes and hit up oncoming targets rather than bombing it long. Harry made a good decision in my view. The execution was terrible and ultimately costly.
#3 Yes Walsh was found out ... but what about our structures around the front of the contest? Non-existent.
Voss and Macrae both talk about moments ... smart beats fast 9/10.

In regards to #2
There can be exceptions to the rule or normal process, it’s called game awareness & IQ.

Yes lowering the eyes in most cases is the way to go but they also need to understand time, score & clock etc….. when scores are level in Harry’s situation you need to understand that you put pressure on the goal square to at least get your nose in front with a rushed behind if Charlie couldn’t mark it.

It reminded me of a young Nathan Buckley lowering his eyes at the end of the 95 Anzac Day clash…. A more experienced/wiser Nathan Buckley would of played that differently and would love his decision over again.

 

[BigFrizz36]

Weaker teams, teams who don't have the quality to hurt you on the rebound. Probably sides who will finish outside the top 10. Probably not Adelaide either, they seem to put sides away when their run gets going.

Last year on our run we played two rucks against (and defeated) Collingwood, StKilda, Melbourne, Gold Coast, Sydney (Final) and Melbourne (Final). This year we played two rucks against the Giants and won.

I'd suggest that it is more to do with he depth of the supporting caste as to whether we can play two rucks successfully. I'd suggest that we are more likely to have success with two rucks if Saad, McGovern, Martin, Motlop, Docherty etc were playing to seal off the oppositions run as opposed to those that we had filling the same roles in recent times.

To suggest that it would only work against the bottom 8 teams is demonstrably untrue.

 

[blues4flag]

Agree on letting it go.

I used just three examples of key moments to demonstrate the irrelevancy of speed - one could choose a few moments to show the opposite for sure...

as for #33 - there is only so much criticism I can hand out about the same player every time I see him play before it gets to be too repetitive - the last time I had such a visceral dislike for a player's on field ability was Paul Bower.

I didn't mind Bower as a player. There's been two players that made me question the collective sanity of our supporter base. First was Luke Parks (unlike Young, aggression was there, but similarly had no idea with ball in hand). Second was Young early days, when our supporters insisted he was a suitable replacement for Jones (or perhaps the better player).

 

[Pixelshooter]

Not sure if it's been discussed...as good as Pitto has been at times, I think we've actually gone better of late without him in the side. I reckon we're a bit top heavy and getting exposed at times.

 

[AB_Blue]

Not sure if it's been discussed...as good as Pitto has been at times, I think we've actually gone better of late without him in the side. I reckon we're a bit top heavy and getting exposed at times.

We are definitely top heavy but Pitto has been great the last 2 weeks…I’d love to try TDK as a defender


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[Kreuuuzeurns]

Hearing Blacres will be a test to play. Pulled up with some soreness.

 

[ESKIE]

I’d like to see this on the banner

 

[juzza316]

I’d like to see this on the banner

Not enough credit to Viney

 

[Kruezing]

Not enough credit to Viney

Yep it all started with him lol

 

[Accidental genius]

You’re giving Walsh an out…

It was poor/dumb/selfish football and it’s something that has been grinding my gears about Walsh since day 1…

He had an option early in the game to chip the ball over to 2 players with no one between them and goal and he had a snap. 100% he saw them but went for glory.

Someone needs to tell him his name is not Judd and bring him down a peg or two…

If that doesn’t work, cut up Daicos’ highlights from Fridays game and let him sit and watch…

Yeah I agree - it was a critical stage of the game and in a dangerous position in our d50.

Walsh should have been thinking about paying close attention to his man.

 

[Opium]

We must play two rucks this week. Only remote chance of winning is to dominate the middle like we did against GWS. Pittos stronger body will be important

 

[gbatman]

Last year on our run we played two rucks against (and defeated) Collingwood, StKilda, Melbourne, Gold Coast, Sydney (Final) and Melbourne (Final). This year we played two rucks against the Giants and won.

I'd suggest that it is more to do with he depth of the supporting caste as to whether we can play two rucks successfully. I'd suggest that we are more likely to have success with two rucks if Saad, McGovern, Martin, Motlop, Docherty etc were playing to seal off the oppositions run as opposed to those that we had filling the same roles in recent times.

To suggest that it would only work against the bottom 8 teams is demonstrably untrue.

I think a good team can win with it but we aren't that good at the moment.

Some demonstrably incorrect information there. We did not beat St Kilda, Melbourne or Collingwood with Pitonett, DeKoning, Curnow and McKay in the side. We did beat The Gold Coast with them in the side but they were a bottom side (15th). Sydney was a good win but we were lucky they had a horrendous night in front of goal.

You are right about those players who are out, in any circumstance we are a much better team with them in it.

We have won games with Curnow, McKay and two rucks but I have yet to see sustained success and to me it doesn't look good or fit in with how the game is being played now. Run, speed around the contests and speed, mobility to create pressure up forward are such big parts of the game.

The only time the two rucks have looked decent is when McKay has been out and DeKoning has played as a key forward and the structure has gone back to two talls and not three.

 

[Aphrodite]

Hearing Blacres will be a test to play. Pulled up with some soreness.

 

[Arr0w]

Some interesting takes on players and our team as a whole over the last 2 games, leading into this one

While Marchbank is made of glass, when fit, he is probably our best defensive 3rd tall. (Don't judge him on the North game). Kemp is improving fast, but still a little green

As for shifting a few players to different positions, no, just no. Some don't have the tank to play between the arcs, certainly not on a wing, and it should benefit the side as a whole, rather than the individual

Turning a struggling forward into a defender, sure, a lot easier role, but some just don't have the attributes

Looking forward to a couple of inclusions, this week and beyond, it will just make our side stronger, consistent and more reliable

Personally, my thoughts on players and the team as a whole hasn't changed during preseason, nor with any game this year. We are a side still building, in the 13-16 win range

 

[bradfisher14]

My only relief comes from the thought that the team hasn't been able to play as a consistent line up all year due to injuries and unavailability....

Another thing that helps me feel better is that in every loss we've played like garbage, but still had our chances to win and had to shoot ourselves in the foot in order to lose. Obviously it's very frustrating that we have lost three games in this way, but we can control/change where we've gone wrong as opposed to just getting completely outclassed.

 

[gbatman]

I am a big believer in ONE Ruck. Purely because the game is so much about run and repeat efforts. I also like McKay in the Ruck for us

Issue is, it's Voss's preference so we better get used to it.

Positive is Pittonet is playing as well as I have ever seen him play and TDK is doing well as a forward.

For it to work we need to get Charlie moving up the ground at times and also get more midfield support out of our smalls. Durdin Owies Fantasia provide bugger all. If we had a Rankine or Pickett that could have midfield minutes it would really help. Hope Motlop steps up and we miss Docherty

My concern is lack of flexibity and also Voss's lack of ability to try different things and have players doing different roles

For the TWO ruck system to work, BOTH rucks need to contribute as do others around the ground. It's a high risk gamble

DeKoning had really come of age early in the season, felt he had gone up levels, then we bring Pitonet in and that is going to waste a bit. I really liked his game round 1 against a ruck who toweled us up in the prelim last season. DeKoning, because he jumps into the opposition ruck has become a good defensive ruck. Best way to nullify a top level ruck.

The thing is McKay was going into the middle and having a huge impact. He was getting clearances and getting it around the ground. We lost that too.

We lost two things that were positive things that were a part of our winning formula. I know we did this to try and get another marking target up forward and that has worked, talls are kicking goals, problem is the other issues it has caused as you have mentioned.

I think we are worse off with the two tall forwards and the two ruckmen. Yes it made us a more defense orientate team with all the smalls in the forward line but that was winning games. Now we are kicking more goals and losing.

I agree, I think we need to get Curnow up the field more if we are to go this tall forward. But it is still going to create a lack of run and forward pressure.

I have always been critical of our coaching group, roasted them after the finals series and I still hold the same opinions. I don't think our midfield tactics are much good. I don't think we get our balance right in our forward line and onball group right often enough. I think we get tactically beaten too often. One of the big points is our midfield does not have a pressure orientated game, which Collingwood switched to to get ontop of us in the inside. We just hunt ball and if that fails we lose.

 

[Benaly28]

Dees are our b****!


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[Benaly28]

Dees don’t score much but they don’t let you score much as well.

Contested game suits both sides.

Gawn the key.


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[Benaly28]

We need to win 10-11 of our remaining games to make top 4 id say.


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[BigFrizz36]

I think a good team can win with it but we aren't that good at the moment.

Some demonstrably incorrect information there. We did not beat St Kilda, Melbourne or Collingwood with Pitonett, DeKoning, Curnow and McKay in the side. We did beat The Gold Coast with them in the side but they were a bottom side (15th). Sydney was a good win but we were lucky they had a horrendous night in front of goal.

You are right about those players who are out, in any circumstance we are a much better team with them in it.

We have won games with Curnow, McKay and two rucks but I have yet to see sustained success and to me it doesn't look good or fit in with how the game is being played now. Run, speed around the contests and speed, mobility to create pressure up forward are such big parts of the game.

The only time the two rucks have looked decent is when McKay has been out and DeKoning has played as a key forward and the structure has gone back to two talls and not three.

Your argument was that we can't play two rucks. Now you appear to be saying that we have had success with two rucks but only if Charlie or Harry isn't playing. We beat premiership favorite (at the time) Giants with all four playing. On the weekend Freo played two rucks and 2 tall key forwards (Darcy, Jackson, Amiss and Treacy), Essendon have been playing Draper, Goldy, Jones and 2MP although Draper was injured over the weekend, Dogs have English, Darcy, JUH and Naughton you could even argue that the Cats run with a similar model of 4 talls on the ball or up forward with Stanley, Blicavs, Hawkins and Cameron although Blicavs is a different type of tall. So we are hardly the only team tinkering with that model.

T.D.K. has kicked three, missed three and kicked two in the last three games and generated 10 shots at goal in the last 3 games. so has been a qualified success when up forward. That's probably as good as we can hope for from a third tall albeit that he's not a great set shot (as in waves the ball around a lot on the way in).

Had we have beaten Geelong (as I believe we should have if our defence was slightly better plugged in and we could have contained Cameron) I doubt that this would be a conversation. I doubt that it would be a conversation if a fit and firing Martin, Fogarty and Motlop were up and running and we had Saad (in particular) and McGovern helping out down back to stop the opposition run.