Autopsy Round 7, 2020: Adelaide v St.Kilda *BYRNES DEBUT*

[gringo2011]

I think Billings has been Ok this year. Would be in the top 10 in BF so gets a pass. Is that good enough? Hill has been really disappointing. So far Jones, Butler and Ryder have had more impact and Howard is coming fast.

Billings and Hill (along with Marshall) are probably the 2 of the players in the team that are A-grade or close. For me, they are not doing enough and we are lucky other players have stepped up and played beyond expectations.

But you look at our results - or what could have been - 10% improvement from Billings and Hill and we would probably be 6-1 and in second place on the ladder.

Billings was missing yesterday but he's been pretty good this year, he's never going to be a pick the side up and carry them type, more just your solid citizen that racks up clean possession and makes others look good.

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

I thought apart from the dumb stuff you mentioned he was pretty decent. Kent is average apart from his goal kicking Lonie is better with his work without the ball. I thought particularly early the pressure from Lonie and Butler was outstanding. He was probably trying to over compensate to keep his spot. That's easy to coach out of him though. To me Membrey was much more of a concern, he couldn't impact at all and looked disinterested for 3 quarters. Marshall looks all at sea for the last 2 weeks too. It wasn't just Paddy that made him play badly, he dropped easy marks and didn't seem to be able to find any space. He was great against Carlton but hasn't looked anywhere near the player he was in 2019 this year.

i disagree on Membrey ...
they knew he was going to cause them headaches so they put in a mountain of work into tim to take him out of the game .. the fact he kept presenting and putting in meant that the crows had to keep that pressure on him all game that in turn opened up the contest for our smalls to get busy ... he played a very selfless game lesser players would have not put in as much and that would have tilted the game into the Crows favour as they swept up the forward entries Members brought the ball down and gave our smalls an opportunity ..

i agree with Marshall .. its almost like hes been drinking his own bath water about how good he is going to be .. needs to really get a hold of the footy and build some form as its almost like hes just running through the game.

i didnt mind Kent unlike Lonie when Kent puts a body on the line or gives the tackle the opposition feel it ..

 

[BrutThough]

I think Billings has been Ok this year. Would be in the top 10 in BF so gets a pass. Is that good enough? Hill has been really disappointing. So far Jones, Butler and Ryder have had more impact and Howard is coming fast.

Billings and Hill (along with Marshall) are probably the 2 of the players in the team that are A-grade or close. For me, they are not doing enough and we are lucky other players have stepped up and played beyond expectations.

But you look at our results - or what could have been - 10% improvement from Billings and Hill and we would probably be 6-1 and in second place on the ladder.

Billings is going better this season than "okay".
Averaging about 20 disposals, 5 marks and a goal a game on the wing is very very good.
Would easily be in our top 3-4 players this year.

 

[Ricmel]

Gresh worst kick in afl besides casboult.

Could be the worst kick I can recall at Saints since Jason Daniel (although Daniels could fire off the occasional bullet to Plugger. That is saying quite a bit since we have a long tradition of kicking hacks from Besanko to Daniels to Clinton Jones.

 

[TassieSaint]

My view on the Marshall Ryder thing is that the two of them combined are far more effective in the ruck than only one of them. I love Marshall by Ryder is much better as a pure tap ruckman. The question is, is the net benefit from playing both outweighed whoever Ryder is keeping out? Given he came in for Marsh who is a VFL level player my answer is no.

 

[gringo2011]

Well I think you can play swings and roundabouts all day long. We actually got 4 free kicks that were shots on goal....we just missed them all and one was certainly Gresham taking a dive. If you support a club you are highly sensitive to decisions against that club during a game. You are not so sensitive and often are blind to decisions against the opposition. If you want to see the worst decision of the night...it was the non-holding the ball that should have been paid against Hill.

But as I said, we could play this game all day.

I thought Gresham was pushed and the guy fell in his back. I saw Rooey say that he thought Gresh let his legs drop but the idea of a free for in the back is so that you can safely bend down and pick up the ball with out getting injured. That Geelong player fell on his arm and his season looks over. If it hadn't been paid people would have gone mental. We were first to the ball most of the night and got about 10 less frees than them.

 

[FQFjt]

Wouldn't mind swapping Clark and Hill's positions. We will surely get more out of Hill as a rebounding half back flanker than what we are getting from him now, and I would back Clark's ability to make an impact on the wing and higher up the ground. Clark is a little off the boil at the moment too, so a little change up might rejuvenate both of them.

 

[Sully111]

Great to get the win, even if it wasn't pretty.

I agree time for Hunter to be a mid... drop seb and bring another back in... probably jimmy.

I'm not worried about Brad Hill.. at all.

Howard's best game for us.

 

[Stewart66]

From an Adelaide perspective I think they have found a player in Ben Keays (very cheaply). He has reinvented himself and his physique after being delisted by Brisbane and did a great job as their grunt player the role Rory Sloan usually plays.

Brad Crouch had no hurt factor and looks disinterested. I still believe if we can get him for not too much $$$ as a free agent he will add to our midfield group.

Sorry mate disagree ...played well yesterday but that’s his only game this year.

Players that would love to have a crack at Ely Smith & Will Brodie unfortunately on long term contracts .

 

[Ricmel]

Billings is going better this season than "okay".
Averaging about 20 disposals, 5 marks and a goal a game on the wing is very very good.
Would easily be in our top 3-4 players this year.

Are you happy with what he is doing with those kicks? His metres gained (I think just about the ket stat for his type of player) ranking is 44 in a list that is dominated by wingmen and elite mids. Yes he is getting 20 touches a game but I don't feel he is having the impact he could have. Not sure if that is the coaches plan or JB just does not have the confidence to take the game on.

 

[BucketsandBanger]

After 24 hours reflection was great that in an absolute must win game it was the younger players who are going to drive us forward that stood up.
Howard was awesome, got the Max Hudghton red mist defender spray down pat already. Need players like this in the team.
Steele was immense, he has this in him more consistently, need to let him loose from the lock down role more often and see if he can develop into an A grade inside mid.
Gresh was big all night, continues to let himself down by foot in front of goal but he is starting to become a clearance specialist in the middle.
Butler just works so hard and his finishing is critical for us, top 5 in the coleman, anyone who thought that would be case at the start of the year is lying, what a pickup.
Coffield is putting it all together, surprised how courageous he is in the air. Can absolutely see him becoming an A grader.

 

[BrutThough]

Are you happy with what he is doing with those kicks? His metres gained (I think just about the ket stat for his type of player) ranking is 44 in a list that is dominated by wingmen and elite mids. Yes he is getting 20 touches a game but I don't feel he is having the impact he could have. Not sure if that is the coaches plan or JB just does not have the confidence to take the game on.

His kicking was off last night.
That doesn't discredit how influential he has been throughout the rest of the season for us.
Suggesting he hasn't been influential enough this year is just holding to a different, unrealistic standard than everyone else on the list.

 

[Ricmel]

I thought Gresham was pushed and the guy fell in his back. I saw Rooey say that he thought Gresh let his legs drop but the idea of a free for in the back is so that you can safely bend down and pick up the ball with out getting injured. That Geelong player fell on his arm and his season looks over. If it hadn't been paid people would have gone mental. We were first to the ball most of the night and got about 10 less frees than them.

First in the back was OK, second he got tackled from the side and just let his knees buckle. Guy tackling had no where to go but to collapse on top of him.

 

[Ricmel]

Suggesting he hasn't been influential enough this year is just holding to a different, unrealistic standard than everyone else on the list.

Well I think we have seen what JB can do when he is on. He has probably played 10 - 12 elite BOG games in his career at Saints so he has shown us what he is capable of and as you say, even at his worst he is OK. But to me it is frustrating that we see the elite stuff so rarely. If his worst was just 10% better then he really would be more of a weapon and we would win more games. But maybe he is being coached to play more conservatively. For me, Billings and Hill are the two players that should be off the leash.

So yeah, I do expect more of JB than I do of Lonie for example.

 

[Lenny2020]

My view on the Marshall Ryder thing is that the two of them combined are far more effective in the ruck than only one of them. I love Marshall by Ryder is much better as a pure tap ruckman. The question is, is the net benefit from playing both outweighed whoever Ryder is keeping out? Given he came in for Marsh who is a VFL level player my answer is no.

Don’t think we can take all that much away from last night when looking at the ruck situation. Steele was playing out of his skin and Adelaide’s midfield were very ordinary, as they have been all year. Against better midfields we will need a lot more help in winning clearances, which is Marshall’s biggest strength. Especially if Steele isn’t playing like Dangerfield.

 

[BrutThough]

Well I think we have seen what JB can do when he is on. He has probably played 10 - 12 elite BOG games in his career at Saints so he has shown us what he is capable of and as you say, even at his worst he is OK. But to me it is frustrating that we see the elite stuff so rarely. If his worst was just 10% better then he really would be more of a weapon and we would win more games. But maybe he is being coached to play more conservatively. For me, Billings and Hill are the two players taht should be off the leash.

I think of all the things to be frustrated with the season, Billings wouldn't rank in the top 200.

 

[MOLTEN GANGLANDS]

I think JB and Hill are suffering from our increased use of the corridor (maybe not last night), or long down the line plays. We haven't been switching.running the wings as much. And ross was lining up on the opposite wing to JB a bunch last night...

 

[Ducky Tie]

To quote the great man, it is so pleasing to see Coffield’s development. Has had his tough moments over his first couple of years and it’s fantastic to see him putting it together. His intercepting is fantastic. He’s a really natural reader of the play.

 

[TassieSaint]

Don’t think we can take all that much away from last night when looking at the ruck situation. Steele was playing out of his skin and Adelaide’s midfield were very ordinary, as they have been all year. Against better midfields we will need a lot more help in winning clearances, which is Marshall’s biggest strength. Especially if Steele isn’t playing like Dangerfield.

Fair point but the Marshall/Ryder combo also worked wonders against the Dogs who have an excellent midfield (Bont, Dunkley, MacRae, Smith) plus English who is looking pretty good this year but got towelled up that game (especially in ruck contests).

 

[Ducky Tie]

Don’t think we can take all that much away from last night when looking at the ruck situation. Steele was playing out of his skin and Adelaide’s midfield were very ordinary, as they have been all year. Against better midfields we will need a lot more help in winning clearances, which is Marshall’s biggest strength. Especially if Steele isn’t playing like Dangerfield.

Steele was playing out of his skin, but i think it would inaccurate to say that Ryder’s tapwork didn’t contribute to that. Steele is generally a 4 (give or take) clearance player. He had 13 last night. He’s not tripling his normal clearance numbers just by chance.

 

[The Punter]

On the umpiring, I thought it went from "Adelaide have paid off the umps" to plain "they don't have a clue" as the night went on.

But as for the worst decision of the night/season/existence? McAdam and Wilkie do the same thing one right after the other, McAdam play on, Wilkie HTB in front of defensive goal.

They. Were. Exactly. The. Same.

 

[FQFjt]

I think JB and Hill are suffering from our increased use of the corridor (maybe not last night), or long down the line plays. We haven't been switching.running the wings as much. And ross was lining up on the opposite wing to JB a bunch last night...

A crucial job for Ratten and co going forward is to ensure that our game plan is extracting the best value from our best players. Either that is going to mean moving Hill/Billings et al into positions that allow them to play central roles in our ball movement, or changing the game plan to ensure we are routing the play through Hill/Billings in their current positions.

 

[luca77]

Gresham's set shot was dead straight last night. He ran out to the right, and the ball continued on the trajectory he was running on.

Even as he was walking in, I was shaking my head. Where the hell was he going? It was like a blindfolded kid playing Pin the Tail on the Donkey after being spun around 3 times.

 

[BigPowerForward]

To quote the great man, it is so pleasing to see Coffield’s development. Has had his tough moments over his first couple of years and it’s fantastic to see him putting it together. His intercepting is fantastic. He’s a really natural reader of the play.

I think he is tracking really well for someone who turns 21 in October and has only played 20 odd games.
Can't wait to see him when his confidence grows more and he takes the game on more regularly.
A slower burn than most on here would have liked but I can't see a reason why he can't become one of our most important players go forward.

 

[kernelT]

I think you have under rated the game being their first home game in front of 30k factor. They were up for the game and had belief and had they kicked straight on goal in the 3rd, the result may have been reversed. I think they played quite well so as Ratts said "sometimes you have to take the scrappy wins"!

Having said that there is room for improvement but its a positive stepping block for the next game.

I have north, crows, freo, Carlton in the bottom half dozen... we’ve been neck and neck with all 4 sides in games this year.

Happy for the win last night but our performances against the worst sides in the comp are a concern at the moment. Thank god we stood up against 2 decent sides as well.