Autopsy 2024 Rd 7 Blues Go Down To Classy Cats In A Belter

[goreds]

Martin does make a difference because he is a natural at presenting a lead up option. He knows when to leave space for the power forwards too.

I'd like us to try a bit of Pagan's paddock for our two super stars.

If our small forwards can't crumb, which they can't. Might as well get them out of the way and stop clogging up the leading lanes for the big boys.

Would love to see H, Charlie and Martin in the 50. The rest can play midfield…

Good luck defending them…

 

[JustaBattler]

We have two amazingly talented Coleman medalists and yet we don't have a game to get them isolated one on one to expose the defenders.

Both of them can out mark anyone in the league on the lead.

Yet all we manage to do is get Charlie into wrestling matches vs multiple opponents.

Harry can destroy a team if we leave room for him to lead into.

Charlie should be doing what Geelong did to us multiple times.

We would be leaving him the whole forward line to himself when we are coming out of attack so he can be the guy who breaks out the back into open space.

We don't have decent small forwards at present, so play to the strengths we do have up forward.

Would love to see H, Charlie and Martin in the 50. The rest can play midfield…

Good luck defending them…

I love the idea makes absoilute sense because Harry is the fastest tall man in the game and Charlie is the best big scrounger in the game - why wouldn't they play the 'Pagan's Paddock' at certain times - be to stack the arc forcing exit defenders out and empty the space out the back for on on ones with maybe a one small...all clear of each other by 30 meters...


In fact all we would need would be a couoel of reliable long kick from the top fo defensive fifty and tor it into space- if the opposition wants to play an extra Carlton can surround every between teh arcs contest and stufle opposition with 2-3 extras ..

Love it.

OK who is emailing Vossy?

 

[Opium]

Tdk

Against GWS we actually looked for other options and lowered eyes. For some reason we changed again to bombing it to Harry and Charlie

Who's our forward line coach??? Charlie doesn't lead. Neither does Harry?

 

[Aphrodite]

Who's our forward line coach??? Charlie doesn't lead. Neither does Harry?

Jordan Russell

 

[ctwenty1]

I love the idea makes absoilute sense because Harry is the fastest tall man in the game and Charlie is the best big scrounger in the game - why wouldn't they play the 'Pagan's Paddock' at certain times - be to stack the arc forcing exit defenders out and empty the space out the back for on on ones with maybe a one small...all clear of each other by 30 meters...


In fact all we would need would be a couoel of reliable long kick from the top fo defensive fifty and tor it into space- if the opposition wants to play an extra Carlton can surround every between teh arcs contest and stufle opposition with 2-3 extras ..

Love it.

OK who is emailing Vossy?

so instead of kicking to 3 on 1 situations, we'd be kicking to 5 on 1...

 

[JustaBattler]

so instead of kicking to 3 on 1 situations, we'd be kicking to 5 on 1...

if the opposition want to play 5 on 1 - Carlton enjoys the numbers to play kick to kick or overlap run it between the arcs - providing time to even up numbers ...

basically, a version of this is being played by St Kilda/Collingwood and now Geelong ...it isnt new news

 

[Opium]

Jordan Russell

Explains everything

 

[Ken Navies]

Does anyone else notice how ineffective our defensive strategy is when the opposition are running the ball down the middle of wing of the ground? Our player will leave their man to run up to the ball carrier, have essentially no effect then the ball is passed to the player just left free.

Maybe we need to flip Hamill and Russell because nobody in our forward line is running at the incoming ball carrier…

 

[Kruezing]

Explains everything

We’ve been having a lot of scoring shots though … our conversion has been crapola

 

[Sector 7G]

Martin does make a difference because he is a natural at presenting a lead up option. He knows when to leave space for the power forwards too.

I'd like us to try a bit of Pagan's paddock for our two super stars.

If our small forwards can't crumb, which they can't. Might as well get them out of the way and stop clogging up the leading lanes for the big boys.

Pagans paddock was introduced 30 years ago. Teams have been using zone defence for at least 15 years. Our forwards would clear out but the defenders would not.

Our tall forwards need to constantly be on the move to create space for others so entries are less predictable with more options . Also we need to get the ball in the hands of better users within 65 m from goal so we kick it to the forwards advantage.

 

[JustOneTime]

Don't think we need to overthink this loss.

We have a style that suits our players. We have to accept that we have to beat the opposition on inside 50s with physicality and effort to offset their more economical goals on turnover. This wont stop anytime soon with Cripps, Hewett, Cerra, Acres, Kennedy all lacking foot speed. It also wont stop with carrying Pitto/TDK who are effective in our style but when we don't have the ball; they would cost us...that bit is harder for everyone to identify but it would be there in the trade off.

We can improve but would need austin to address our runners/midfielders/HBFers kicking/decision making abilities plus ground speed. Our list is just ok in this area but overall not where he would like them.

As for the Geelong loss, the issue is that we have lost too much class from our best 22 on kicking/decisioning making. Just enough to allow the cats to beat us. Cerra/Saad/Martin alone would have helped so much plus they don't spray the ball like their replacements. Some of the other players missing aren't always better players but the issue we face right now is some out of form players get to hold their spot which is hurting us (Young, Hollands, Williams, Durdin, others).

No real re-invention is required. Just minor improvement on turnover goals is all which would come anyway. We simply need to play to our strengths but get players back so we have choice on form players.

The only frustration in that game was that everytime the ball broke free, you go 'oh no', please don't let Geelong get it as it will be a goal. And that thought appeared a long way from their goal. Our half forwards, and mids who have to chase that rebound are slow on speed. Geelong certainly exposed that.

In personal analysis, i'd prefer to play TDK/Mckay one week then Pitto/Mackay the next week to add the speed back to our fwd line who would chase those turnover goals the other side gets.

 

[JustOneTime]

The goals kicking issues come down to two points not one. Bad kicking and bad kicking options.

Turnover teams like what the cats did to us meant they get many many easy uncontested marks and goals in easy positions. Carlton play the harder kick it high and pack mark game to the pockets. The pockets to lessen the number jumping for the ball. Results in a hard kick.

Another issue is that we are asking for Charlie, Harry and TDK to kick us goals. The latter two do not in any way get close to matching smaller opposition players with more kicking skill at goal. Not even charlie.

So other teams only need 35-45% of inside 50s to win the game. Carlton fans mistakenly walk away with the misconception that we should have won with straighter kicking. It's more complicated than that.

 

[Bostonian]

Pagans paddock was introduced 30 years ago. Teams have been using zone defence for at least 15 years. Our forwards would clear out but the defenders would not.

Our tall forwards need to constantly be on the move to create space for others so entries are less predictable with more options . Also we need to get the ball in the hands of better users within 65 m from goal so we kick it to the forwards advantage.

So then we have numerical advantage all over the ground.

Retain possession work the ball into the forward arc while all of these defenders are zoning off.

We are so predictable at present. We also have a lot of low football IQ players.

Burn the obvious free player to kick to a contest.

 

[JustOneTime]

So then we have numerical advantage all over the ground.

Retain possession work the ball into the forward arc while all of these defenders are zoning off.

We are so predictable at present. We also have a lot of low football IQ players.

Burn the obvious free player to kick to a contest.

The issue is that we dont have Pendles, Sidebottom, Daicos, Daicos in our side for the final inside 50 kick. So it is no use having dominance between the arcs. It's why Voss has them booting it deep. Then lock it in attempt.

We have Cripps and Acres who both think they are Pendles.

 

[JustOneTime]

We can play the way we are but need to drop Pitto/TDK in favour of using Mckay.

This helps with stopping opposition turnover game. Voss and the coaches need to address a little better what happens after the pack mark contest deep inside 50.

Our smalls are trying to help pick up and score...but the opposition have the outnumber and then ready to spread fast. Here, those smalls are getting caught out. I'd like to see the vision of Charlie/Mckay/TDKs opponent when they spread. I bet 1/2 of them help provide the run overlap for the turnover goal. That's exactly what i would tell TDKs opponent to do.

 

[Bostonian]

The issue is that we dont have Pendles, Sidebottom, Daicos, Daicos in our side for the final inside 50 kick. So it is no use having dominance between the arcs. It's why Voss has them booting it deep. Then lock it in attempt.

We have Cripps and Acres who both think they are Pendles.

That's not excuse for burning an open player just to kick long to a contest.

We do that too often.

 

[gbatman]

Our current injuries won't matter against most side, against the very top sides it will.

Half our backline is out, one of our best midfielders is our and a couple of important forwards are out.

Despite all the bellyaching about our forward line we still managed to kick 105 points. The fact that this was a high score by current standards but not a winning score suggests defensive issues.

Yes we smashed them in inside 50s so it's reasonable to suggest we could have scored a little higher.... But, we had 118 kicked against us. We got flogged defensively. Which comes back to having half our backline out.

I think Geelong knuckled down on defence and did well, we tried and failed. Let's go around again with Saad, McGovern and Marchbank in the side and we win.

There is no reason to over think this one, Geelong were good, fielded a strong side and we made too many mistakes and leaked too many goals. I think we kicked enough or close to it but we leaked like a siv. That makes sense looking at the 3 big outs.

I think if Geelong kicked 118 and we won, that would have been a lot about luck. About having a poor defence and making the most of forward entries and shots on goal etc. Last season and this one we have been tight. This one we weren't.

Forward line retention is a bit of a problem. That's what you get when you lose your best pressure small forward but more so when you have a third tall forward who is over 195CM and not under 195CM. Martin or Silvagni instead of TDK makes the forward pressure so much better and still gives us a target.

 

[Opium]

We’ve been having a lot of scoring shots though … our conversion has been crapola

True. We've outscored the opposition in every game.

 

[gbatman]

We can play the way we are but need to drop Pitto/TDK in favour of using Mckay.

This helps with stopping opposition turnover game. Voss and the coaches need to address a little better what happens after the pack mark contest deep inside 50.

Our smalls are trying to help pick up and score...but the opposition have the outnumber and then ready to spread fast. Here, those smalls are getting caught out. I'd like to see the vision of Charlie/Mckay/TDKs opponent when they spread. I bet 1/2 of them help provide the run overlap for the turnover goal. That's exactly what i would tell TDKs opponent to do.

Go back to a faster more mobile forward line. Like it. Problem is we don't have the medium marking forward. Need 3 marking threats minimum up forward. If only Silvagni or Martin or both were fit.

TDK is a great third tall when marking it and kicking goals. When he isn't how is he contributing? He's not. He's not roving it and applying pressure. This is why the shorter third tall forwards are better to have than the ruckman sized ones which has become a little old fashioned.

 

[Arr0w]

Generally, teams that have more inside 50s, have more shots and normally win if they execute

I'd rather have more opportunities to score and work on accuracy rather than having to improve both

 

[JustaBattler]

We can play the way we are but need to drop Pitto/TDK in favour of using Mckay.

This helps with stopping opposition turnover game. Voss and the coaches need to address a little better what happens after the pack mark contest deep inside 50.

Our smalls are trying to help pick up and score...but the opposition have the outnumber and then ready to spread fast. Here, those smalls are getting caught out. I'd like to see the vision of Charlie/Mckay/TDKs opponent when they spread. I bet 1/2 of them help provide the run overlap for the turnover goal. That's exactly what i would tell TDKs opponent to do.

Pittonet and TDK were instrumental in the win against GWS - a far more capable and in the end this year at least worthy of consideration than Geelong

Carlton lost teh game because of poor conversion -not because of Pittonet or TDK.

this constant call for more speed- sans referencing finals quality players to add that ingredient is rather boring and tedious.

 

[JustOneTime]

this constant call for more speed- sans referencing finals quality players to add that ingredient is rather boring and tedious.

It certainly is very tedius watching when we lose the ball inside our fwd 50 and then going, oh s**t, there is another goal chance for the opposition before the play has begun.

As we see the opposition out sprint us to the other end. Weirdly, in the opponents inside 50, they can outnumber us at times.

BTW the request was for speed/kicking skills/ decision making. Speed isnt everything of course. A basic ingredient im sure austin is trying to get with his first rounder. Accept that second round, thats a near impossible ask.

 

[JustOneTime]

Pittonet and TDK were instrumental in the win against GWS - a far more capable and in the end this year at least worthy of consideration than Geelong

This is plain wrong.

What was instrumental in us turning that game was 22 players giving it their all. Almost the hardest I've ever seen 'the group' try in a game. When the group does that, everything looks like it is working including 2 rucks. In the last qtr and half, even the defence looked like it was good/working when we know there is issues there to solve.

 

[Opium]

Pittonet looks like a completely different player since returning. Moving so much better and actually covering the ground well

 

[JustOneTime]

There is a concept that can be borrowed from the premiership and international soccer.

Teams set up for counter attack; can result in more shots on goal, but it ultimately comes down to quality of scoring opportunities.

This is something Scott and Mcrae would def understand when playing Carlton.

Carlton need more opportunities than those two teams to win.

We just have to finesse our way of playing when we are short players. Alternatively, a full list means we get our chance.