Religion The Bible: Literal, figurative, bulldust?

[Gethelred]

To clearly delineate conversation between threads, this thread is for specifically bible talk; if you're debating biblical historicity or lack of it, if you're talking interpretation, this is the thread for you.

Standard board rules apply. Go nuts.

 

[Vdubs]

It's a long read, but to sum it up...there's too much of a disadvantage starting with giving birth. Quoting him (one of the main problems with evolution)

"The main problem is that the birth canal passes through the pelvis, where space is limited. However, evolution has also equipped humans with big brains – which creates the need for a big skull. The skull simply cannot pass through the pelvis if it is too big, and evolution has solved this problem by allowing humans to give birth to children at a much more premature stage than in related species like the chimpanzee and the gorilla”

A creative "designer" or engineer would not have had much trouble finding another solution. For example, childbirth would have been much easier if the opening of the birth canal was placed a little higher up the body, in the bone-free area between the pelvis and ribs. In this area, the fetus would not have to pass through a narrow opening in the bony skeleton on the way out. Human surgeons developed this particular solution – the Caesarean section – a long time ago.

Amazing. God could have done a better job?

 

[Total Power]

Amazing. God could have done a better job?

Chimps had a lesser fatality rate than humans.

What do you think smartarse?

 

[Rosscoe 17]

Oh really? i made a post long ago about me living in Rwanda, go read it. Sitting in your ivory tower in Victoria, must be fun having god looking after you.

Then you complain about "assumptions"

A bit rich, coming from you.

If your childhood was truly brutal; you would not talk like that about others that empathised.

Your frustration has no boundaries.

 

[Total Power]

If your childhood was truly brutal; you would not talk like that about others that empathised.

Your frustration has no boundaries.

I have not CLAIMED it's a proof of no god. My anecdotal experience is as valid as yours.

Both do not prove ANYTHING

Frustration don't kid yourself. Why are anecdotal experiences from other religions not as valid as yours?

 

[evolved2]

Comparing finding the spirit to finding an elephant at the g is a problem. You have heard that there is a planet named Jupiter. But do you truly? You need to find a telescope big enough or go to a conservatory or get someone to show you how to find it. It as not as simple as looking for an elephant.

God is everywhere. In the bible we see him moving from the spiritual realm to the physical realm and acting upon this planet and it's people. Anyone should be capable of looking at the material world and finding actual evidence of God's work. Your god is the elephant and this world is the MCG in my example.

The complexity of human anatomy and the beauty of a rainbow aren't evidence of biblegod. Surely as adults we've moved beyond that level of reasoning.

Fundamentalists, gnostic theists; whatever box you want to put us in won’t change the fact that we are Christians. Followers of Christ.

I'm aware. Have I doubted the authenticity of your belief?

True justice rarely exists on earth. I don’t need to buy a book to tell me that. I already have one.

There's no evidence it happens in the alleged afterlife either. If your god is real, and who most Christians claim him to be, the outcome appears to be even less just than having no afterlife.

I don’t follow god in the hope of justice but I believe those that do will have it. I follow god because it is the truth.

There's no evidence that god is the truth. There's plenty of evidence that the bible is full of falsehoods.

The evidence you guys present helps me understand god in ways I never thought off. It strengthens my faith and I am thankful for it.

I truly don't care how my posts impact your faith, whether they strengthen or weaken it. That's something I'm very neutral about.

 

[evolved2]

You mean the evidence that the creation story is fake? Global flood never happened? Exodus never happened? Well yeah, i can see how it strengthens your faith....

Faith isn't based on evidence. I can see how evidence against the veracity of the bible would push some Christians further into faith.

 

[Total Power]

There's no evidence that god is the truth. There's plenty of evidence that the bible is full of falsehoods.

It amuses me how they deny Genesis has no basis in reality. I mean head in sand is an understatement.

 

[Total Power]

Faith isn't based on evidence. I can see how evidence against the veracity of the bible would push some Christians further into faith.

But but God is looking after me and blessing me. Isn't it enough evidence? what about the holy spirit i feel in heart.

FMD.

 

[evolved2]

You should not assume your personal let-down situation is universal; far from it.

My personal experience with prayer isn't a significant factor in my unbelief. I knew another church couple who had several heartbreaking miscarriages despite being kind and genuine people. It's sad when people are scammed by faith like that. I lost contact with them - last I heard they'd given up on trying due to the pain from loss, yet still believed in the Christian god.

There are people who would read your comments and conclude you've succumbed to the influences of Satan, something you actually believed when you were a Christian.

I'm aware.

Of course we all have doubt at times, but when you actually know what God has done in your life and experienced it, it is way beyond the way you have attempted to describe it.

It's really not. The church has created a pseudo-therapeutic system that works in 'miraculous' ways for some, and is designed to keep believers locked in.

Sadly I have encountered m any friends who are bitter about Church, and sometimes God, and become bitter and cynical. That does NOT equate with God not being real, but says more about the person who has stepped away.

I'm not bitter about god or Christians. Most of my experiences were positive and remain so.

 

[evolved2]

But but God is looking after me and blessing me. Isn't it enough evidence? what about the holy spirit i feel in heart.

FMD.

Must be easy to have faith when you support Geelong!

 

[Total Power]

It's really not. The church has created a pseudo-therapeutic system that works in 'miraculous' ways for some, and is designed to keep believers locked in.

I have literally produced tons of evidence about Trinity for example all swept under the carpet and back to anecdotes as evidence. I mean literally we are wasting our time.

 

[evolved2]

I get it, you blame all the worlds problems on god, because you are misinformed.

We can't blame a fictional being for anything.

 

[Total Power]

We can't blame a fictional being for anything.

Only the good on God. Scientific advancement = god gave us intelligence.

But atom bombs = we are sinners.

They cannot lose and yet they don't realise they create a strawman every step of the way.

 

[evolved2]

I have literally produced tons of evidence about Trinity for example all swept under the carpet and back to anecdotes as evidence. I mean literally we are wasting our time.

Some people are hopelessly dependent on their faith in all aspects of living. They're not ready to accept opposing evidence.

Many theists would struggle psychologically if they were to acknowledge some hard truths about their religion.

 

[evolved2]

Only the good on God. Scientific advancement = god gave us intelligence.

But atom bombs = we are sinners.

They cannot lose and yet they don't realise they create a strawman every step of the way.

Stockholm syndrome.

 

[Total Power]

Some people are hopelessly dependent on their faith in all aspects of living. They're not ready to accept opposing evidence.

Many theists would struggle psychologically if they were to acknowledge some hard truths about their religion.

Double standards. Their anecdotes are valid, but the moment i produce mine "But you weren't a real Christian"

I don't mind anecdotes as anecdotes can be subjectively strong (as i have seen in India visit recently, with all the miracle stories). But if tell these Christian heathens about how Krishna answered everyones prayers, they are gonna flip.

Why one anecdote is better than the other?

 

[Vdubs]

But but God is looking after me and blessing me. Isn't it enough evidence? what about the holy spirit i feel in heart.

FMD.

FMD is unnecessary.
Very shallow comment.
God is not a shopping list fulfiller, but actually the ultimate confidante, and friend. But explaining that to cynics and skeptics is head against brick wall stuff.
Most people do not pray for selfish gain, fwiw, because if that was all there was to a relation ship with God, faith would never last.
But carry on regardless.

 

[Vdubs]

Chimps had a lesser fatality rate than humans.

What do you think smartarse?

I do.

 

[Total Power]

I do.

So chimps get a better system than humans? how is that proof of 'INTELLIGENT' design.

 

[Total Power]

FMD is unnecessary.
Very shallow comment.
God is not a shopping list fulfiller, but actually the ultimate confidante, and friend. But explaining that to cynics and skeptics is head against brick wall stuff.
Most people do not pray for selfish gain, fwiw, because if that was all there was to a relation ship with God, faith would never last.
But carry on regardless.

Not shallow, what i stated is a fact. No one is asking for selfish gains, has prayer helped any single thing in this world? millions of prayers are ongoing for Israel (how ironic - the holy land) to stop bombing Gaza, Russia to stop killing in Ukraine. None of them for selfish reasons, none of them actually work.

Welcome to reality.

 

[Vdubs]

So chimps get a better system than humans? how is that proof of 'INTELLIGENT' design.

You go on arguing with your own assertions, as always. Nobody is talking chimps here.
I just said I think.
Do you know the intricacies of the human body?
It is absolutely masterful, and I believe made in God's image.

 

[Total Power]

You go on arguing with your own assertions, as always. Nobody is talking chimps here.
I just said I think.

What you think is obviously wrong. Evolution has put a massive disadvantage on humans. What do you think of womens menstruation cycle for giving birth? very intelligent hey? What about male nipples? how about Junk DNA? what about cancer causing genes? what about appendix? wisdom teeth? blind spot? tail bone?

all signs of extreme intelligence?

 

[Vdubs]

What you think is obviously wrong. Evolution has put a massive disadvantage on humans. What do you think of womens menstruation cycle for giving birth? very intelligent hey? What about male nipples? how about Junk DNA? what about cancer causing genes? what about appendix? wisdom teeth? blind spot? tail bone?

all signs of extreme intelligence?

Absolutely brilliant.
Hormones, nerves, brain, excretion of products, assimilation of nutrients, it goes on and on, blood flow, hearts, bones, muscles, function. Love it.
MARVELLOUS.
Flaws and imperfections, of course.
There has to be death.
Imagine if everyone who was born never died.

 

[Total Power]

Absolutely brilliant.
Hormones, nerves, brain, excretion of products, assimilation of nutrients, it goes on and on.
MARVELLOUS.
Flaws and imperfections, of course.
There has to be death.
Imagine if everyone who was born never died.

We had this chat before. Do you wish to go over it again? You are digging a hole for yourself, as usual.

Last time i asked you a series of questions, you changed the subject without answering. Shall i quote that post again?

 

[Vdubs]

We had this chat before. Do you wish to go over it again? You are digging a hole for yourself, as usual.

Why so?
You are self proclaimed expert on everything are you?
The human body is marvellous, and nothing you say detracts from that.
I think God is involved, you don't. Whoopty Doo Basil