Religion The Bible: Literal, figurative, bulldust?

[Gethelred]

To clearly delineate conversation between threads, this thread is for specifically bible talk; if you're debating biblical historicity or lack of it, if you're talking interpretation, this is the thread for you.

Standard board rules apply. Go nuts.

 

[Total Power]

"Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?"
Douglas Adams

I will say this, life is brutal and tough for vast majority out there. I do not blame Rossy and VD likes for believing someone is blessing and looking after them. As a child life was literally brutal to me. I was unable to accept why this was happening to me while my relatives are living in luxury. But Jesus protected me as a child, so i thought, till worse things happened to me. Back to the wall kinda thing. I wish someone was looking after me then, i really did. I prayed and prayed but it just got worse. Now if it got better i would be saying 'Amen'.

Belief works exactly like that.

 

[evolved2]

I will say this, life is brutal and tough for vast majority out there. I do not blame Rossy and VD likes for believing someone is blessing and looking after them. As a child life was literally brutal to me. I was unable to accept why this was happening to me while my relatives are living in luxury. But Jesus protected me as a child, so i thought, till worse things happened to me. Back to the wall kinda thing. I wish someone was looking after me then, i really did. I prayed and prayed but it just got worse. Now if it got better i would be saying 'Amen'.

Belief works exactly like that.

Fair point.

As a young boy I was unable to accept what was happening in the 1990 grand final and I prayed to god for a win against the forces of darkness aka Collingwood.

Like I said, god doesn't answer prayer!

 

[Total Power]

Fair point.

As a young boy I was unable to accept what was happening in the 1990 grand final and I prayed to god for a win against the forces of darkness aka Collingwood.

Like I said, god doesn't answer prayer!

 

[evolved2]

View attachment 1968352

I'm scared to ask this - which AFL team did you support before the Adelaide teams entered the comp?

 

[Total Power]

I'm scared to ask this - which AFL team did you support before the Adelaide teams entered the comp?

I didn't follow the AFL. I grew up following the SANFL. Crowbots never interested me as they hijacked our bid.

 

[Rosscoe 17]

If you tell me that an elephant is living in the MCG, and I look on the ground, through every stand, the museum, changerooms, everywhere to no avail. I see no sign of an elephant and no evidence this elephant ever set foot on the MCG - not even a footprint or elephant dung.

What should I conclude?

I can't prove god isn't real to your satisfaction, but I can and have done so to mine. Gnostic theists are as delusional as those who believe in lizard people.

True justice doesn't exist in this world, which is why you have to believe it happens in the unproven afterlife. People have an innate psychological need to see the world as just because it makes life more predictable. Look up just world hypothesis if you want to learn something, though I presume you don't.

Comparing finding the spirit to finding an elephant at the g is a problem. You have heard that there is a planet named Jupiter. But do you truly? You need to find a telescope big enough or go to a conservatory or get someone to show you how to find it. It as not as simple as looking for an elephant.

Fundamentalists, gnostic theists; whatever box you want to put us in won’t change the fact that we are Christians. Followers of Christ.

True justice rarely exists on earth. I don’t need to buy a book to tell me that. I already have one.

I don’t follow god in the hope of justice but I believe those that do will have it. I follow god because it is the truth. The evidence you guys present helps me understand god in ways I never thought off. It strengthens my faith and I am thankful for it.

 

[Total Power]

The evidence you guys present helps me understand god in ways I never thought of. It strengthens my faith and I am thankful for it.

You mean the evidence that the creation story is fake? Global flood never happened? Exodus never happened? Well yeah, i can see how it strengthens your faith....

 

[Roylion]

Comparing finding the spirit to finding an elephant at the g is a problem. You have heard that there is a planet named Jupiter. But do you truly? You need to find a telescope big enough or go to a conservatory or get someone to show you how to find it. It as not as simple as looking for an elephant.

Is there some doubt that Jupiter exists?

Jupiter has been visited by automated spacecraft since 1973. The first spacecraft to orbit Jupiter was the Galileo mission mission, which reached the planet in 1995 and orbited it for seven years. Juno is another spacecraft that approached within 1,500 km of the surface of the earth in February 2024, sending back various measurements and photographs. In 2022 it approached within 352 km of the surface.

I follow god because it is the truth.

This is yet another unsubstianted claim.

 

[Roylion]

Well yeah, i can see how it strengthens your faith....

I guess without any evidence to support the claimed truth of a belief system, faith is all that is left.

If one must have faith in order to believe something, or believe in something, then the likelihood of that something having any truth or value is considerably diminished.

 

[Total Power]

I guess without any evidence to support the claimed truth of a belief system, faith is all that is left.

If one must have faith in order to believe something, or believe in something, then the likelihood of that something having any truth or value is considerably diminished.

Yep, they are all Ken Ham. If scriptures are in conflict with science, then scriptures must prevail.

If you look at the definition of Christian fundamentalism, you have found one.

 

[Rosscoe 17]

You mean the evidence that the creation story is fake? Global flood never happened? Exodus never happened? Well yeah, i can see how it strengthens your faith....

So you have evidence that can prove god does not exist. You should present it to the oxford journal to have it verified.

In contrast, I had a brutal childhood too; I wish you all the best in your life journey.

 

[Total Power]

So you have evidence that can prove god does not exist. You should present it to the oxford journal to have it verified.

You are not reading, it's a null hypothesis, i cannot disprove God, just like you can't disprove Shiva or pink unicorn, simulation theory etc. But I CAN disprove the creation story in the Bible.

You should write a paper on how Adam and Eve are real and how scientists are wrong. Global flood happened, Noah's ark is real etc etc. I look forward to see you get a Nobel prize in science for that.

Goodluck

 

[Rosscoe 17]

I guess without any evidence to support the claimed truth of a belief system, faith is all that is left.

If one must have faith in order to believe something, or believe in something, then the likelihood of that something having any truth or value is considerably diminished.

One must have commitment in order to believe. You have no idea about god because you have no idea how to draw nearer to him.

Historical rocks, papyrus and all that Indiana Jones type stuff is very interesting but will never lead you to the truth; if that is what you are pursuing.

 

[Vdubs]

This is a claim, not a fact.


It is an unsubstiated claim that the Bible is God's 'word'.


This is a claim that these things are created by 'God'.


This is a matter of faith only. Faith is based upon a hope or trust that something is true despite a lack of supporting evidence or proof.

Bertrand Russell, who labelled himself an agnostic by saying God is unknowable, but lived as an atheist (in other words, lived as if there is no God) said...

"Where there is evidence, no one speaks of 'faith'. We do not speak of faith that two and two are four or that the earth is round. We only speak of faith when we wish to substitute emotion for evidence."



You might consider it is 'real', but that it is 'real' is merely a matter of opinion. There is/was real belief in other deities and supernatural events such as Mohammed splitting the moon, but that does not mean those deities actually existed or the event actually occurred

This is nothing more than Argumentum ad populum. That something is considered to be true or good solely because it is popular.



These are merely unsubstantiated claims. Where is the evidence?



On what grounds? Are not both believed in by faith?


I can't disprove God. Nor do I wish to. God, if it exists is unknowable. By you. And me. However given it is you that is making a claim to truth, I'm asking for supporting evidence for you claim. Otherwise all you are doing on here is proselytizing your belief system.

And surely you dont expect your claims to truth to go unchallenged in a thread such as this?




Why should I believe in Satan?

Satan is merely a product of the human imagination.

As I said, you do not accept the miracles of conversion and personal testimonies and changed lives. That does not happen by chance or positive thinking.

It's a feeling, a sense, a subjective 'knowing' - these things can be created artificially.

God doesn't answer prayers. You have a case of confirmation bias. The peace you gain from prayer is because it's a form of meditation and self-soothing.

In fact, god doesn't communicate with you and Rossy at all. You're trying to convince yourself that he does, but there are times when the truth seeps through and brings you doubt. I know it even if you won't admit it.

Truth comes from doubt, not faith.

You should not assume your personal let-down situation is universal; far from it. There are people who would read your comments and conclude you've succumbed to the influences of Satan, something you actually believed when you were a Christian.
Of course we all have doubt at times, but when you actually know what God has done in your life and experienced it, it is way beyond the way you have attempted to describe it.
Sadly I have encountered m any friends who are bitter about Church, and sometimes God, and become bitter and cynical. That does NOT equate with God not being real, but says more about the person who has stepped away.

 

[Rosscoe 17]

Belief works exactly like that.

No it doesn’t.

 

[Total Power]

One must have commitment in order to believe. You have no idea about god because you have no idea how to draw nearer to him.

Plenty of committed people have left your faith, this is why your religion is pretty much on a landslide (on the way down). Stop assuming stuff about people you have NFI about.

Historical rocks, papyrus and all that Indiana Jones type stuff is very interesting but will never lead you to the truth; if that is what you are pursuing.

Scientific method is proven as tested. It's the only way we can get closer to the truth. If those things happened it should be verifiable. Fact is intelligent design is stupid and silly, but you must believe in it cause you have faith.

REALLY silly position to be in

 

[Total Power]

No it doesn’t.

Yes it does. Go to any 3rd world country, millions of devout believers. God doesn't help them out as 50,000 children will die in Africa every single day. But god has the need to protect YOU, with all your first world issues.

The sun doesn't shine out of your arse Rossy.

 

[Rosscoe 17]

Yes it does. Go to any 3rd world country, millions of devout believers. God doesn't help them out as 50,000 children will die in Africa every single day. But god has the need to protect YOU, with all your first world issues.

The sun doesn't shine out of your arse Rossy.

I get it, you blame all the worlds problems on god, because you are misinformed.

 

[Total Power]

I get it, you blame all the worlds problems on god, because you are misinformed.

Stop postulating. I said there's many in much more need for God than you. Having lived and worked in Africa for many years, God never seems to show up. Go live in African and see how devout they are.

But he makes an appearance to you.

 

[Roylion]

As I said, you do not accept the miracles of conversion and personal testimonies and changed lives.

That does not prove that 'God' exists.

That does not happen by chance or positive thinking.

It is not proof of 'God".

There are people who would read your comments and conclude you've succumbed to the influences of Satan,

Satan is a figment of the human imagination. Christianity borrowed the concept from Zoroastrianism.

 

[Rosscoe 17]

But god has the need to protect YOU, with all your first world issues.

You assume too much.

 

[Rosscoe 17]

Stop postulating. I said there's many in much more need for God than you. Having lived and worked in Africa for many years, God never seems to show up. Go live in African and see how devout they are.

But he makes an appearance to you.

Like I said you are misinformed and gods followers in Africa obviously are not.

 

[Total Power]

You assume too much.

Look who's talking. As i said go live in Central Africa and see how devout they are. Not even talking about worlds problems...talking about survival here.

 

[Total Power]

Like I said you are misinformed and gods followers in Africa obviously are not.

Oh really? i made a post long ago about me living in Rwanda, go read it. Sitting in your ivory tower in Victoria, must be fun having god looking after you.

Then you complain about "assumptions"

A bit rich, coming from you.

 

[Roylion]

You have no idea about god because you have no idea how to draw nearer to him.

And your claim that you can draw near to him is merely an article of faith. Another unsubstianted claim.

Historical rocks, papyrus and all that Indiana Jones type stuff is very interesting but will never lead you to the truth;

Why do you claim the events described in the Bible are historical? How do you know this?