Religion The Bible: Literal, figurative, bulldust?

[Gethelred]

To clearly delineate conversation between threads, this thread is for specifically bible talk; if you're debating biblical historicity or lack of it, if you're talking interpretation, this is the thread for you.

Standard board rules apply. Go nuts.

 

[Vdubs]

We had this chat before. Do you wish to go over it again? You are digging a hole for yourself, as usual.

Last time i asked you a series of questions, you changed the subject without answering. Shall i quote that post again?

This is not a court of law.
If I could be bothered dredging up half of your insults etc...

 

[Total Power]

Why so?
You are self proclaimed expert on everything are you?
The human body is marvellous, and nothing you say detracts from that.
I think God is involved, you don't. Whoopty Doo Basil

Evolution shows absolutely no signs of design, it DOES NOT need a middle man. It's a scientific FACT.

Human body is far from marvelleous, our eyes, ears, nose are vastly inferior to many species. So are our running/walking skills. Our healing skills are not great either compared to many species, just like birth.

The only difference is we have a larger frontal lobe that allows us to build tools and helps in creative thinking. But if neanderthals were alive, we would have had competition (You do have neantherdal genes too).

So don't make a strawman argument in the first place.

 

[Total Power]

This is not a court of law.
If I could be bothered dredging up half of your insults etc...

What insults? Genuine questions, start here

Religion - Ask a Christian - Continued in Part 2

Continued in Part Two: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/ask-a-christian-part-2.1295001/unread

www.bigfooty.com

You ran with tail between your legs, as usual.

 

[Vdubs]

Evolution shows absolutely no signs of design, it DOES NOT need a middle man. It's a scientific FACT.

Human body is far from marvelleous, our eyes, ears, nose are vastly inferior to many species. So are our running/walking skills. Our healing skills are not great either compared to many species, just like birth.

The only difference is we have a larger frontal lobe that allows us to build tools and helps in creative thinking. But if neanderthals were alive, we would have had competition (You do have neantherdal genes too).

So don't make a strawman argument in the first place.

IF.
Here we are, and we have dominion over all life on earth, and should respect that.

 

[Total Power]

IF.
Here we are, and we have dominion over all life on earth, and should respect that.

It's called evolutionary tree , do have a look at times, we didn't get here cause God created us. We have been here for a 100,000 years only after 4 billion years of evolution.

 

[Vdubs]

What insults? Genuine questions, start here

Religion - Ask a Christian - Continued in Part 2

Continued in Part Two: https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/ask-a-christian-part-2.1295001/unread

www.bigfooty.com

You ran with tail between your legs, as usual.

Memories.
Some posters in that cesspool thread were out of line. Can see why it was closed.

 

[Vdubs]

It's called evolutionary tree , do have a look at times, we didn't get here cause God created us. We have been here for a 100,000 years only after 4 billion years of evolution.

God always was .

 

[Total Power]

Memories.
Some posters in that cesspool thread were out of line. Can see why it was closed.

So, no answers then?

 

[Total Power]

God always was .

Another claim, with zero evidence to back it up with. You keep doing that in this thread and then asks me 'why are you getting annoyed'.

Where is your proof that Shiva doesn't exist? go to india and talk to people.

I feel it in my heart isnt evidence.

 

[Vdubs]

So, no answers then?

I have already told you how amazing the body is, and how resilient most bodies are, but the brain and heart are top shelf. Then the soul. Of course, you want to select things you regard as negatives, flaws, blah, blah, blah.

 

[Total Power]

I have already told you how amazing the body is, and how resilient most bodies are, but the brain and heart are top shelf. Then the soul. Of course, you want to select things you regard as negatives, flaws, blah, blah, blah.

And i have debunked that claim with heaps of evidence. We have nothing special (actually inferior) outside of larger brains and frontal lobe.

What do we have that is so unique outside of that? do tell?

 

[Vdubs]

And i have debunked that claim with heaps of evidence. We have nothing special (actually inferior) outside of larger brains and frontal lobe.

What do we have that is so unique outside of that? do tell?

Do you really want and deserve a reply to such a banal question?
Intellect, creativity, the world you live in with all its industry and development and research- comes from human achievement.
Do not take it for granted.
Is it always a competition for you?
Always comparing and contrasting...
We are totally unique with brains more powerful and functional than any man-made computer, note man- made.
Really, what is unique about us?
Other creatures have been studied by man, and sure, many species have their idiosyncracies.

 

[Total Power]

Do you really want and deserve a reply to such a banal question?
Intellect, creativity, the world you live in with all its industry and development and research- comes from human achievement.

Changed your tune i see.

YOUR argument previously was, i marvel at the human body. I marvel at it's healing capabilities. Why have you changed your tune now? Now this has changed to....but but but we are so intelligent. No one has denied that and it's because of evolution that are so intelligent.

I already said that to you, bigger brains. Which helps us in building tools and creative thinking, yet we werent the only specie to do that. Neanderthals were equally as intelligent. Homo Sapiens aren't unique

So basically you are conceding the argument that outside of intelligence we aren't unique?

Do not take it for granted.

We are here by chance. I am happy to be here.

Is it always a competition for you?

Evolution is about survival of the fittest.

Always comparing and contrasting...

Because you dont understand science. Not even a little bit.

Who argues for intelligent design in this day and age? Only the indoctrinated ones.

It's a shame i am even arguing this with a so called 'educated' adult.

We are totally unique with brains more powerful and functional than any man-made computer, note man- made.

Who has denied any of that? I already said OUTSIDE OF bigger brains whatelse do we have?

Really, what is unique about us?

Human body is much more than brain! eyes? ears? nose? healing capability? giving birth? limbs? flying? swimming? we lose at everything else.

Yet if we become extinct this planet will breathe a sigh of relief. It will continue to thrive without us. However if microbes or bees or birds cease to exist, the eco-system will collapse.

So who is more important in the greater context? Humans aren't the centre of attention like you think we are.

 

[Vdubs]

Changed your tune i see.

YOUR argument previously was, i marvel at the human body. I marvel at it's healing capabilities. Why have you changed your tune now? Now this has changed to....but but but we are so intelligent. No one has denied that and it's because of evolution that are so intelligent.

I already said that to you, bigger brains. Which helps us in building tools and creative thinking, yet we werent the only specie to do that. Neanderthals were equally as intelligent. Homo Sapiens aren't unique

So basically you are conceding the argument that outside of intelligence we aren't unique?




We are here by chance. I am happy to be here.


Evolution is about survival of the fittest.



Because you dont understand science. Not even a little bit.

Who argues for intelligent design in this day and age? Only the indoctrinated ones.

It's a shame i am even arguing this with a so called 'educated' adult.


Who has denied any of that? I already said OUTSIDE OF bigger brains whatelse do we have?




Human body is much more than brain! eyes? ears? nose? healing capability? giving birth? limbs? flying? swimming? we lose at everything else.

Yet if we become extinct this planet will breathe a sigh of relief. It will continue to thrive without us. However if microbes or bees or birds cease to exist, the eco-system will collapse.

So who is more important in the greater context? Humans aren't the centre of attention like you think we are.

Really?
We actually are, and we were made in God's image. That means the world to believers.

 

[Total Power]

Really?
We actually are, and we were made in God's image. That means the world to believers.

So God has 2 legs, limbs and 2 eyes?

Awesome reply...as usual!

Why bother?

 

[Vdubs]

So God has 2 legs, limbs and 2 eyes?

Awesome reply...as usual!

Why bother?

Yep, Jesus, the human form of God, certainly had all his appendages intact.
And why bother? I can answer that. I truly feel some compassion for you guys, and that's why I and we Christians persevered here. Most haven't because they realise you are fixated in your pov.
I thought 'maybe they are still searching'. 'Is it my responsibility to not give in, to not feel ashamed about the reasons for my faith, about what my relationship with Jesus means to me, how God uses me in other peoples' lives in my non-cyber real life.'
But anyway, after years of humouring you lot, I do get that you ask why bother, and perhaps I will leave my discussions with you lot to footy and footy alone.

 

[Total Power]

Yep, Jesus, the human form of God, certainly had all his appendages intact.

Please don't bother. It's literally pointless to talk to you.

 

[Vdubs]

Please don't bother. It's literally pointless to talk to you.

We agree. You cut off the rest of my post, but c'est la vie.

 

[Total Power]

We agree. You cut off the rest of my post, but c'est la vie.

Yes back to tele-evanglism, god is great blah blah.

I ain't a halfwit.

 

[Total Power]

And why bother? I can answer that. I truly feel some compassion for you guys, and that's why I and we Christians persevered here.

Fixated in your pov...LOL coming from a guy who said NOTHING will change my opinion.

This has to be the WEIRDEST post in this thread. You feel compassion for us cause we don't believe in fairy tales?

Here's an advice VD, instead of feeling compassion for people for not believing in your fairy tales, go out and do some actual charity work, without involving fairy tales. It's called righteousness, try it.

We are hardly fixated in any Pov. Asking for evidence is too much now is it? I am searching for the truth, cause the truth is not found in the Bible. I have stated my objections in details and you have swept everything under the carpet.

The search for truth continues for us.

Most haven't because they realise you are fixated in your pov.

Most haven't cause they are simply unable to defend their beliefs. Like Trinity, invented 400 years later. When presented with evidence, they run away. Fair enough too. Genesis is BULLSHIT is not a point of view. It's proven. Exodus is bullshit is not pov. It's proven.

Credit to you, you have stayed cause you don't wanna give in, this is why i get annoyed cause of your tele-evanglical bullshit.

I thought 'maybe they are still searching'.

Who isn't? except you lot. I have debunked the Bible here, over 5 years. Spoon fed you about Trinity, how it's an invented concept. Told you how exodus is bullshit and Genesis been copied.

Nothing can stop you from admitting the truth. Back to 'our lord is great'.

We ARE SEARCHING cause the truth cannot be found in man made lies.

'Is it my responsibility to not give in, to not feel ashamed about the reasons for my faith, about what my relationship with Jesus means to me, how God uses me in other peoples' lives in my non-cyber real life.'

Sure you can choose to have your relationship with whichever fictional character you want. I honestly do not care.

But anyway, after years of humouring you lot, I do get that you ask why bother, and perhaps I will leave my discussions with you lot to footy and footy alone.

Don't feel bad. I have been doing this for 5 years, the joke is on me for listening to all this and expecting you to be reasonable...for once. I never learn.

Lets call it quits, if you're happy with the man in your head, all the power to you. I will call a s**t belief system for what it is. You can show compassion, mercy whatever...but i gotta call a spade a spade.

 

[Roylion]

I believe made in God's image.

‘God’ is made in man’s image.

The Man-created Bible plainly describes an image of God as a human-shaped deity, who walked and talked and wept and laughed.

A deity who also supposedly crafted god-shaped humans from clay…and a "god who wept and talked and slept and sulked. A god who felt and fought and loved and lost.” (Dr. Francesca Stavrakopoulou, Professor of Hebrew Bible and Ancient Religion)

In Genesis, Adam and Eve hear Yahweh’s footsteps approaching as he walks in the Garden of Eden. Later in the same book, Abraham sees Yahweh standing with two other divine beings beneath a group of sacred trees, and subsequently goes for a walk with him.

God is clearly male too. When Ezekiel describes his glimpse of God, for example, he describes God’s motnayim, a Hebrew word term traditionally rendered as ‘loins’ or ‘waist,’ but which more accurately refers to the groin and its genitals.

God was never a formless, imageless, invisible deity, who in the New Testament became flesh (‘incarnate’) in Jesus Christ.

He was already flesh with human form and human emotions. God’s image changed as cultural preferences and tastes have changed and he’s truly been created in man’s image by man’s imagination, rather than the other way around.

 

[Total Power]

‘God’ is made in man’s image.

The Man-created Bible plainly describes an image of God as a human-shaped deity, who walked and talked and wept and laughed.

A deity who also supposedly crafted god-shaped humans from clay…and a "god who wept and talked and slept and sulked. A god who felt and fought and loved and lost.” (Dr. Francesca Stavrakopoulou, Professor of Hebrew Bible and Ancient Religion)

In Genesis, Adam and Eve hear Yahweh’s footsteps approaching as he walks in the Garden of Eden. Later in the same book, Abraham sees Yahweh standing with two other divine beings beneath a group of sacred trees, and subsequently goes for a walk with him.

God is clearly male too. When Ezekiel describes his glimpse of God, for example, he describes God’s motnayim, a Hebrew word term traditionally rendered as ‘loins’ or ‘waist,’ but which more accurately refers to the groin and its genitals.

Gpd was never a formless, imageless, invisible deity, who in the New Testament became flesh (‘incarnate’) in Jesus Christ.

He was already flesh with human form and human emotions. God’s image changed as cultural preferences and tastes have changed and he’s truly been created in man’s image by man’s imagination, rather than the other way around.

Most of it is lifted from Egyptian myths. Nothing is original in the Genesis.

Gods and Men in Egypt: 3000 BCE to 395 CE(Cornell University Press; 2005) Françoise Dunand, Christiane Zivie-Coche

In the instruction for King Merikare, the author goes so far as to tell us that the creator god concieved the world for the sake of humankind:
'Well, provided are men, the herd of the god. It is for them that he made the sky and the earth. It is for them that he repulsed the greed of the water. It is so that their nostrils might live that he made the breezes, for they are his images, issued from his flesh. It is for them that he rises in the sky: it is to nourish them that he made plants, herds, birds, and fish.'

Ancient Egypt Investigated: 101 Important Questions and Intriguing Answers(IB Tauris,2013) Thomas Schneider

Ever since Egyptian texts became widely known in the second half of the nineteenth century, scholars began searching for ancient Egyptian parallels to biblical texts...
Numerous religious concepts also have Egyptian parallels: man as God’s image, the concept of God as shepherd, the weighing of the heart, the forming of men on a potter’s wheel, the discovery of sacred books in order to legitimize religious reform, and so forth.

Egyptian Mythology: A Guide to the Gods, Goddesses, and Traditions of Ancient Egypt(Oxford University Press,2002) , Geraldine Pinch

Before creation begins there is no division into genders. The creator seems to include both the male and female principles. Creator deities were commonly called "the father and mother of all things."...
In many Egyptian sources the creation of life involves three elements: the creation of a body, the transfer to that body of some part of the divine essence of the creator, and the animation of the body by the breath of life...The second element, the transfer of the divine essence, eventually led to the concept that all deities, or even all living beings, were not just made by a transcendent creator but were in some sense forms of the creator.

 

[Boston tiger]

‘God’ is made in man’s image.

The Man-created Bible plainly describes an image of God as a human-shaped deity, who walked and talked and wept and laughed.

A deity who also supposedly crafted god-shaped humans from clay…and a "god who wept and talked and slept and sulked. A god who felt and fought and loved and lost.” (Dr. Francesca Stavrakopoulou, Professor of Hebrew Bible and Ancient Religion)

In Genesis, Adam and Eve hear Yahweh’s footsteps approaching as he walks in the Garden of Eden. Later in the same book, Abraham sees Yahweh standing with two other divine beings beneath a group of sacred trees, and subsequently goes for a walk with him.

God is clearly male too. When Ezekiel describes his glimpse of God, for example, he describes God’s motnayim, a Hebrew word term traditionally rendered as ‘loins’ or ‘waist,’ but which more accurately refers to the groin and its genitals.

Gpd was never a formless, imageless, invisible deity, who in the New Testament became flesh (‘incarnate’) in Jesus Christ.

He was already flesh with human form and human emotions. God’s image changed as cultural preferences and tastes have changed and he’s truly been created in man’s image by man’s imagination, rather than the other way around.

Interesting stuff but barking up wrong tree.

The Catechism


“The human person participates in the light and power of the divine Spirit. By his reason, he is capable of understanding the order of things established by the Creator. By free will, he is capable of directing himself toward his true good. He finds his perfection “in seeking and loving what is true and good” (1704).

By virtue of his soul and his spiritual powers of intellect and will, man is endowed with freedom, an “outstanding manifestation of the divine image” (1705

 

[evolved2]

FMD is unnecessary.
Very shallow comment.
God is not a shopping list fulfiller, but actually the ultimate confidante, and friend. But explaining that to cynics and skeptics is head against brick wall stuff.
Most people do not pray for selfish gain, fwiw, because if that was all there was to a relation ship with God, faith would never last.
But carry on regardless.

You could pray for peace in the middle east, an end to poverty, or even halving of the homeless rate in Melbourne and still get the same response because god isn't real. Nobody is listening on the other end of the phone even if you've convinced yourself that someone is there.

In all my time arguing and debating with Christians over the net, I've only seen one person say they'd changed their worldview - they'd changed from Christianity to atheism. People don't get 'saved' through internet debates over religion.

You've got zero chance of convincing me of the virtues of faith, and I highly suspect the other non believers here are similar. We're what you'd probably call 'hard soil'.

Stay if you want to discuss and argue the accuracy of Christianity and the bible, but you're wasting your time if you think we're searching for faith and Jesus. Going back to Christianity is equally appealing as changing support to Carlton in the AFL. It's not going to happen.

 

[Roylion]

Interesting stuff but barking up wrong tree.

'God' is made or imagined by man in man's image.

The Catechism

The Catechism, is the exposition of doctrine of the Catholic Church.

So?