Roast St Kilda in no mans land

[PJays]

Wasn't Crouch dropped to VFL a few weeks ago? Something ain't right with him.
Was good last year. But not sure you can count on him going fwd.

I think he was injured during the pre season, wasn't right to start the year then hurt his knee.

Has consistently been a quality player for the last few years. Far too early to say he's "cooked".

 

[WillHayward]

I think he was injured during the pre season, wasn't right to start the year then hurt his knee.

Has consistently been a quality player for the last few years. Far too early to say he's "cooked".

Well he won't be in your next premiership team. We can say that with confidence.

 

[Atomboy]

I'm not trolling at all.

Let's break it down...

Firstly, were not talking necessarily about individual players. We're talking a midfield unit.

As a midfield unit, they're one paced, lacking skill, and lacking depth. Pedestrian. No game breaking ability. Vanilla.

Secondly, as individuals they're very average too.

Don't even mention Ross winning two B&Fs. I mean seriously, f**k me. Winning a B&F in an appalling team means absolutely nothing in terms of your standing in the comp.

Would you rather Ross in your midfield, or Jimmy Bartel? Or Michael Tuck? Or Cyril Rioli? Or Daniel Kerr?

Seriously, whomever writes this s**t is an absolute idiot. Come one. Winning two B&Fs in pathetic teams as evidence that your some sort of gun?? Fair dinkum.

As for Marshall, he's handy. But what damage does he actually do? He certainly doesn't do any damage drifting forward. He averages less than half a goal per game. He certainly doesn't worry anyone with his ruck work either.

He's not a spud - but I don't think the opposition is losing any sleep when they come up against him. The damage just isn't there.
What is in his favour, is that he pretty much rucks the entire game. It inflates his numbers ahead of other ruckmen who share the load.

And as for Steele, he's a good honest player. He's an excellent defensive midfielder. He'd probably be elite (ie. Top 10% in the comp) as a midfielder if he was allowed to play as a defensive mid 100% of the time. That's when he plays his best footy. What is glaring about how woeful St Kilda's midfield is, is that Steele is actually their best midfielder full stop! It would be like taking the Bont out of the Bulldogs midfield and letting Liberatore be the number 1 guy! Sure, he'd compete like a beast like Steele does and get some possessions and play some good footy - but there is no way in hell that a midfield led by him is ever going to rip you apart.

The offensive skill, class and game breaking ability just isn't there.



As I said earlier, tell me a worse midfield unit in living memory than St Kilda's at the moment?

St Kilda’s midfield unit in 2023 ?.

 

[BrutThough]

You are right.

When Lyon was appointed the narrative from the Saints was clear :

We should be contending. Ratten wasn't ruthless enough..We are under achieving.
We need a more professional and ruthless coach to make us a contender.

After year 1 it was on we are on track..We lost to GWS in a final and we need to inject more pace. GWS are arguably the best team in it We are nearly a contender.

Now suddenly the narrative is oh we are young and rebuilding.

We were young and rebuilding last year. No team had made finals while getting as many games into teenagers as we did last year.

That narrative hasn't changed. Most people just didn't realise it.

 

[beside the seaside]

Well he won't be in your next premiership team. Let's just say we can say that with confidence.

What a weird thing to say. So we should de-list any player we don't think will be in our next premiership team?

You're so wrong on Crouch, he was our best mid last year in a year we played finals. Is currently injured which suddenly makes him a washed up hack?

 

[PJays]

What a weird thing to say. So we should de-list any player we don't think will be in our next premiership team?

Definitely a weird comment

3 years ago when Collingwood were languishing near the bottom of the ladder, who would've predicted Pendlebury would play in another premiership? Absolutely no one.

Saints are currently "renovating" or "re-tooling" but not rebuilding. Their goal is to compete for a flag in 2025 and 2026, it seems to me, when hopefully the stars will align:

- The quality group of veterans, our best players from the past few years, will still be near their best: Steele, Sinclair, Wilkie, Marshall etc. Crouch is included in this group.

- King, NWM and maybe one or two others will have become genuine stars, with the fresher youngsters (Wilson, Phillipou etc) developing fast

- The war chest has allowed the addition of another quality player- probably a midfielder

Those three things happen (especially the middle one), have a good injury run and things click, there's no reason Saints 25 & 26 couldn't be Collingwood 22 & 23.

The structure is there. We just need a little more talent. That will hopefully come from the younger group.

 

[LifestyleSaints]

Definitely a weird comment

3 years ago when Collingwood were languishing near the bottom of the ladder, who would've predicted Pendlebury would play in another premiership? Absolutely no one.

Saints are currently "renovating" or "re-tooling" but not rebuilding. Their goal is to compete for a flag in 2025 and 2026, it seems to me, when hopefully the stars will align:

- The quality group of veterans, our best players from the past few years, will still be near their best: Steele, Sinclair, Wilkie, Marshall etc. Crouch is included in this group.

- King, NWM and maybe one or two others will have become genuine stars, with the fresher youngsters (Wilson, Phillipou etc) developing fast

- The war chest has allowed the addition of another quality player- probably a midfielder

Those three things happen (especially the middle one), have a good injury run and things click, there's no reason Saints 25 & 26 couldn't be Collingwood 22 & 23.

The structure is there. We just need a little more talent. That will hopefully come from the younger group.

We will not be competing for a flag in 2025 nor 2026. This is just wishful thinking on your part. We are in need a full rebuild. Anyone over the age of 27 will be retired by the time we are ready. Mark my words, the best thing we can do at the end of this year is cash in Steele, Sinclair and Marshall before their value goes down. If we were able to snare 3 FRDP's for them plus a couple of SRDP's we would be laughing. Take them all to the draft and grab the best possible youngsters to add to our core group of Owens, Windhager, Pou, Wilson, Collard, Nas, King, Henry and Garcia. Then we keep trading one player every year who is older than 27 for an extra FRDP if possible. Once we have a bona fide top 4 team then we attack Free Agency. Premiership by 2028 at the earliest!!!

 

[eclipse]

We will not be competing for a flag in 2025 nor 2026. This is just wishful thinking on your part. We are in need a full rebuild. Anyone over the age of 27 will be retired by the time we are ready. Mark my words, the best thing we can do at the end of this year is cash in Steele, Sinclair and Marshall before their value goes down. If we were able to snare 3 FRDP's for them plus a couple of SRDP's we would be laughing. Take them all to the draft and grab the best possible youngsters to add to our core group of Owens, Windhager, Pou, Wilson, Collard, Nas, King, Henry and Garcia. Then we keep trading one player every year who is older than 27 for an extra FRDP if possible. Once we have a bona fide top 4 team then we attack Free Agency. Premiership by 2028 at the earliest!!!

You weren't Melbournes list manger about 15 years ago were you?

 

[PJays]

We will not be competing for a flag in 2025 nor 2026. This is just wishful thinking on your part.

This is a professional competition with 18 clubs that is relatively equalised, and St Kilda have some inherent disadvantages. Eg. 1. playing at Marvel, 2. Being a small fish in the Melbourne pond, meaning not a first choice destination for moving players 3. Small club fixturing- Geelong, Launceston etc.

These aren't easy to overcome. Marvel tenants have won 2 flags in 24 years. 5 clubs, 2 flags in 24 years.

On face value, winning a flag is an incredible feat for a club like St Kilda and requires plenty going right. From a list perspective it takes many good decisions combined with good luck.

But, St Kilda played finals last year. Arguably we were 2 gun players off being a premiership contender. And we have a group of 5, 6, 7 impressive young prospects at varying stages of development. 2 of them look one step away from stardom.

So it might be unlikely, but it's not "wishful thinking".

 

[EconomicDecline]

We will not be competing for a flag in 2025 nor 2026. This is just wishful thinking on your part. We are in need a full rebuild. Anyone over the age of 27 will be retired by the time we are ready. Mark my words, the best thing we can do at the end of this year is cash in Steele, Sinclair and Marshall before their value goes down. If we were able to snare 3 FRDP's for them plus a couple of SRDP's we would be laughing. Take them all to the draft and grab the best possible youngsters to add to our core group of Owens, Windhager, Pou, Wilson, Collard, Nas, King, Henry and Garcia. Then we keep trading one player every year who is older than 27 for an extra FRDP if possible. Once we have a bona fide top 4 team then we attack Free Agency. Premiership by 2028 at the earliest!!!

Wow! Then we’ll be like Norf and have no leadership and languish at the bottom of the ladder for the next 5 to 10 years. Great plan

 

[My Tilly]

How's Enright working out for ya Saints

Best decision we ever made getting rid of Scarlett, Knights and Enright.
Excellent footballers but huge ego's not quite suited to young kids in development mode.

 

[BrutThough]

How's Enright working out for ya Saints

Best decision we ever made getting rid of Scarlett, Knights and Enright.
Excellent footballers but huge ego's not quite suited to young kids in development mode.

Fantastic, thanks for asking.

We were the top ranked defence last year and up until last match, we were excellent defensively despite our midfield and forward issues. We've also seen multiple defenders elevate their games under him, including Sinclair and Wilkie becoming All Australian level, Battle becoming a very good key defender, role players like Stocker and Webster more consistent players and Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera whose move to half back was led by Enright and looks like will be a gun for the next decade.

 

[CharacterFirst]

This is a professional competition with 18 clubs that is relatively equalised, and St Kilda have some inherent disadvantages. Eg. 1. playing at Marvel, 2. Being a small fish in the Melbourne pond, meaning not a first choice destination for moving players 3. Small club fixturing- Geelong, Launceston etc.

These aren't easy to overcome. Marvel tenants have won 2 flags in 24 years. 5 clubs, 2 flags in 24 years.

On face value, winning a flag is an incredible feat for a club like St Kilda and requires plenty going right. From a list perspective it takes many good decisions combined with good luck.

But, St Kilda played finals last year. Arguably we were 2 gun players off being a premiership contender. And we have a group of 5, 6, 7 impressive young prospects at varying stages of development. 2 of them look one step away from stardom.

So it might be unlikely, but it's not "wishful thinking".

You must have unbounded respect for Geelong.

1). We always get small club fixturing. We have to play in Geelong 8-9 times a year. Home finals at the other teams home ground as well!

2). We have to play on a "cheat ground" so often it's embarrassing. No roof either!

3). We are a small fish and we don't even get to live in the Melbourne pond. We have been in "Sleepy Hollow" for @ 170 years.

Please.

STK are really just an historically weak club.

Chronic underperformers.

 

[My Tilly]

Fantastic, thanks for asking.

We were the top ranked defence last year and up until last match, we were excellent defensively despite our midfield and forward issues. We've also seen multiple defenders elevate their games under him, including Sinclair and Wilkie becoming All Australian level, Battle becoming a very good key defender, role players like Stocker and Webster more consistent players and Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera whose move to half back was led by Enright and looks like will be a gun for the next decade.

I think you'll start to see what I mean in the coming years.

 

[Dazb86]

3 in 12 days (Bulldogs 3 in 13) it was.

Plus we've had two 5 day breaks already. Has any other team had that so far?

And then the past 2 weeks you get 3 teams that played finals last year (one being the premiers!) getting to have an extra break part way through the season. Real great fixture you got there AFL.

Classic no mans land type banter.

It's round 6... far too early to be crying about fixtures.

 

[PJays]

You must have unbounded respect for Geelong.

1). We always get small club fixturing. We have to play in Geelong 8-9 times a year.

Which is a big advantage....

Home finals at the other teams home ground as well!

yeah, that's a disadvantage.... just like Marvel tenants though. And interstate teams on Grand final day

3). We are a small fish and we don't even get to live in the Melbourne pond. We have been in "Sleepy Hollow" for @ 170 years.

Which is both an advantage and a disadvantage. I'd say mostly an advantage.

Certain players want to be in the big smoke and their minds won't be changed.

But for the rest- No other club can offer beautiful farm acreages or coastal, beachside living within the same proximity to training. For anyone who likes the countryside, or the beach, or anyone who doesn't like big cities, Geelong is number one. Geelong can offer a certain lifestyle advantage that other clubs can't compete with.

 

[Saint12]

How's Enright working out for ya Saints

Best decision we ever made getting rid of Scarlett, Knights and Enright.
Excellent footballers but huge ego's not quite suited to young kids in development mode.

Ordinary footballers juiced up on the Danks potions....Enright is a stain on our club to be honest, happy for you to to take the drug cheat back.

 

[CharacterFirst]

Which is a big advantage....


yeah, that's a disadvantage.... just like Marvel tenants though. And interstate teams on Grand final day


Which is both an advantage and a disadvantage. I'd say mostly an advantage.

Certain players want to be in the big smoke and their minds won't be changed.

But for the rest- No other club can offer beautiful farm acreages or coastal, beachside living within the same proximity to training. For anyone who likes the countryside, or the beach, or anyone who doesn't like big cities, Geelong is number one. Geelong can offer a certain lifestyle advantage that other clubs can't compete with.

That has been seen as desirable by a few players - in the last 5 years.

Sleepy Hollow for 165 years +.

 

[LifestyleSaints]

How's Enright working out for ya Saints

Best decision we ever made getting rid of Scarlett, Knights and Enright.
Excellent footballers but huge ego's not quite suited to young kids in development mode.

Smart Arse

 

[Flags_In_The_Bag]

Still good value

 

[Atomboy]

Still good value

It’s not exactly incorrect

 

[WillHayward]

What a weird thing to say. So we should de-list any player we don't think will be in our next premiership team?

You're so wrong on Crouch, he was our best mid last year in a year we played finals. Is currently injured which suddenly makes him a washed up hack?

Don't de list him. Just annoys me when fans claim players are going to make a difference when they come back in.
A long list of so called "outs".

I'm just saying he's not going to be the difference between you winning or losing. .

He's probably now a list clogger cos you need to get midfield time into Dow and Windhager.

You can't have it both ways. Don't tell me you are a contender with Crouch in the side but also rebuilding with talented youth..that's clearly BS.

 

[PJays]

Just annoys me when fans claim players are going to make a difference when they come back in.
A long list of so called "outs".

He's finished top 6 in our BnF for 3 years straight. Years that we narrowly missed the 8 (21, 22) and played finals (23). He's a significant out. Unquestionably.

He's probably now a list clogger cos you need to get midfield time into Dow and Windhager.

He was our best midfielder last year.

You can't have it both ways.

No one's having anything both ways

we're just telling you Brad Crouch is a quality player, which almost any Saints fan would tell you.

Stop back tracking and just admit you were off the mark.

 

[Jock1eyemcpie]

He's finished top 6 in our BnF for 3 years straight. Years that we narrowly missed the 8 (21, 22) and played finals (23). He's a significant out. Unquestionably.


He was our best midfielder last year.


No one's having anything both ways

we're just telling you Brad Crouch is a quality player, which almost any Saints fan would tell you.

Stop back tracking and just admit you were off the mark.

Brad crouch probably wouldn’t get a game at most top sides.

 

[PJays]

Brad crouch probably wouldn’t get a game at most top sides.

It's already happened....

Finished 8th in Adelaide's B&F in 2017.

Had 29 disposals, 10 tackles, 5 inside 50s and 8 clearances in the prelim they won by 10 goals. 29 disposals and 7 clearances in the losing Grand Final.

Then, and now, he'd get a game in basically any team.

Edit: In fact, Crouch finished 4th in the Gary Ayres award in 2017. Best on Ground in the first final vs GWS, then quality numbers in prelim/GF.

Last year he finished 16th in the AFL in clearances. 131 clearances, the highest in his career.