Injury Russell your feathers - discuss all things high performance; injury lists, Marvel surface, curse from the gods and Andrew Russell

[CarmenSandiego]

We have 45 players on a list, think the ticks outweigh the crosses

Again, I don't care if Russell is there or not, it's never been part of the debate for me

If your measuring stick is that the majority of 45 players are healthy then him and his team are doing a good job, then that’s a ridiculously low bar. That’s the bare minimum - especially for someone as handsomely paid as him.

How has the health of our list compared with the rest of the comps during his tenure?

With all due respect, you don’t seem to have an opinion on the debate - it’s mostly “we don’t know so we can’t comment”, which is essentially shutting down debate. So I do wonder why you’re in the thread.

 

[Arr0w]

If your measuring stick is that the majority of 45 players are healthy then him and his team are doing a good job, then that’s a ridiculously low bar. That’s the bare minimum - especially for someone as handsomely paid as him.

The comment was based on a factually incorrect statement you made, that he has more crosses than ticks

How has the health of our list compared with the rest of the comps during his tenure?

As pure numbers? Poorly. Removing the injury prone players he inherited and still dealing with, I'd say he sits comfortably with his cohorts.

I can create a similar narrative, how did the health of our list compare to other sides back end of last year?

With all due respect, you don’t seem to have an opinion on the debate - it’s mostly “we don’t know so we can’t comment”, which is essentially shutting down debate. So I do wonder why you’re in the thread.

My opinion has always been consistent throughout, unlike people claiming "fact", nor have I ever shut down the debate, unlike others posting, "close thread"

I don't think there are any hard "facts", apart from players missing

I will repeat, I don't care if he remains or leaves, as my belief is, it will never improve until we move on injury prone players

 

[JustOneTime]

I do comment on all sorts of topics but I dont put them forth as fact.

Think you are confusing fact with insight and opinion.

 

[Doro]

As far as hamstrings go, there's a couple of examples from the NRL in the last 24 hrs that probably illustrate how problematic they become when recurring. Nathan Cleary and Tommy Turbo, 2 of the games biggest names. Turbo even went to see Bill Knowles in the U.S post season and still twanged it again. I think we might need to manage Cezs minutes when he gets back, the fatigue during games can't be recreated in fitness tests.

 

[CarmenSandiego]

The comment was based on a factually incorrect statement you made, that he has more crosses than ticks

What’s your definition of a tick? Getting a professional athlete fit enough to handle the rigours of the sport they’re paid to play?

As pure numbers? Poorly. Removing the injury prone players he inherited and still dealing with, I'd say he sits comfortably with his cohorts.

Injury prone players that he has played a part in signing/retaining. Coaches get the sack for not getting out of the players they inherit. Not sure why the same standards aren’t applied to the head of the other departments in the club.

I can create a similar narrative, how did the health of our list compare to other sides back end of last year?

it was fine, on par with other finalists and nothing overly special. What’s your point? He’s proven his worth because we were fit for 6 weeks of the year - like the other clubs playing finals? Your narrative doesn’t stand up, if you were to create it.

My opinion has always been consistent throughout, unlike people claiming "fact", nor have I ever shut down the debate, unlike others posting, "close thread"

I don't think there are any hard "facts", apart from players missing

I will repeat, I don't care if he remains or leaves, as my belief is, it will never improve until we move on injury prone players

We never know any hard facts as fans, but a discussion board still exists for us.

 

[Bryce Bubbles]

I didn’t say he had been there since 2015, you just made that up.
He was brought in for preseason in October 2018, you know when Cuningham had just completed his third season, probably not yet 21.
Marchbank had been there a year, A year later after Martin had played 83% of games over his career at GC joined in 2019 trade period and wouldn’t have averaged 40%. McGovern would have played a significant amount more of games in % terms than at Carlton
Philp drafted in 2019

All of those perennially injured have spent a very large part or all of their careers under Russell.

Now we are seeing continuous reoccurrences in Walsh, Cerra, Motlop, Williams has issues
Matt Carroll, brand new to the club and played not a jot of game time

It’s beyond a joke, every season we start with one hand tied behind our backs and constant injuries well above the average across every year.

He needs to go


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Agreed!

 

[Arr0w]

What’s your definition of a tick? Getting a professional athlete fit enough to handle the rigours of the sport they’re paid to play?

Yes

Injury prone players that he has played a part in signing/retaining

You mean has inherited injury prone players. He doesn't have the final say on list management decisions

. Coaches get the sack for not getting out of the players they inherit.

Coaches get sacked if they don't deliver on agreed output. This side clicked, without a consistent best 22 on the park

Not sure why the same standards aren’t applied to the head of the other departments in the club.

I've never said they shouldn't

it was fine, on par with other finalists and nothing overly special. What’s your point? He’s proven his worth because we were fit for 6 weeks of the year - like the other clubs playing finals? Your narrative doesn’t stand up, if you were to create it.

My narrative is just as valid as anyone else's

We never know any hard facts as fans, but a discussion board still exists for us.

I enjoy the these debates, I think they should stay active no matter what the injury status

Similar sentiment, the masses trying to convince others to their way of thinking, opinion, supposed facts

I'm not in the keep or sack Russell clan, I've never been that definite, until I am

 

[BlueJet]

So, in summation..

• If a player gets injured: according to some, it's Russell's fault.
• Despite repeated efforts to get them to explain their position, little more is offered up than to reference the injury list.
• Engaging in dialogue with these same people sees you accused of drinking the Kool-Aid or provocation.
• He's now being held accountable for LM decisions.

At some point there needs to be an openness to see things from anothers perspective, otherwise this thread will continue to go around in circles as people continue to seek to validate their own position on the matter at the expense of any meaningful exchange of thoughts or ideas.

 

[CarmenSandiego]

So, in summation..

• If a player gets injured: according to some, it's Russell's fault

No. Stop straw-manning.

• Despite repeated efforts to get them to explain their position, little more is offered up than to reference the injury list.

Just like when asked to explain your position, little more is offered up than "but we don't know the details".

• Engaging in dialogue with these same people sees you accused of drinking the Kool-Aid or provocation.

Really? Everyone seems pretty relaxed and up for the discussion. I've sensed no hostility from the majority.

• He's now being held accountable for LM decisions.

Once again, stop strawmanning. I said he has a say in the signing and retaining of the injury prone players you absolve him of being responsible for. Him, his team and the medical department all contribute to these decisions - it's not a dictatorship.

At some point there needs to be an openness to see things from anothers perspective, otherwise this thread will continue to go around in circles as people continue to seek to validate their own position on the matter at the expense of any meaningful exchange of thoughts or ideas.

As I said to Arrow, your viewpoint doesn't allow any meaningful exchange of thoughts or ideas because a) the main argument is "we don't know the details so can't say", and b) you absolve Russell and the HP of any responsibility of our downfalls whatsoever. Then take the piss out of whoever has the differing view by strawmanning. Take this exchange for example.

"Russell has to deal with injury prone players, its hardly his fault"
"Well he has a say in signing these players - he has clearly ticked them off therefore he's contributing to the issue"
"LOL!! You think Russell is responsible for LM decisions!!11"

 

[CarmenSandiego]

Yes

Different standards, I guess. I'd be shocked in Cook was thinking "yeah this is good enough".

You mean has inherited injury prone players. He doesn't have the final say on list management decisions

Do you think the LM team would sign a player without the tick of approval and completed medical with the HP team? Tip: Watch the AFL Amazon docuseries when Eddie Betts is about to get re-signed for another year, who's in the room with him & doing most of the talking?

Coaches get sacked if they don't deliver on agreed output. This side clicked, without a consistent best 22 on the park

So it's because of Russell & the HP team they clicked? I would've put more responsibility for the coaches & leaders for that, personally.

I'm not in the keep or sack Russell clan, I've never been that definite, until I am

You're quite clearly in the keep Russell clan (which is totally fine), as you seem to absolve him of any shortcomings we're having with the strength, conditioning and health of our list but praise him for achieving the bare minimum. Defending someone so rigorously but then saying 'oh i don't care either way though' is an odd stance to take.

 

[Arr0w]

Different standards, I guess. I'd be shocked in Cook was thinking "yeah this is good enough".



Do you think the LM team would sign a player without the tick of approval and completed medical with the HP team? Tip: Watch the AFL Amazon docuseries when Eddie Betts is about to get re-signed for another year, who's in the room with him & doing most of the talking?



So it's because of Russell & the HP team they clicked? I would've put more responsibility for the coaches & leaders for that, personally.



You're quite clearly in the keep Russell clan (which is totally fine), as you seem to absolve him of any shortcomings we're having with the strength, conditioning and health of our list but praise him for achieving the bare minimum. Defending someone so rigorously but then saying 'oh i don't care either way though' is an odd stance to take.

You are now going round in circles, with items which I have covered, but also now putting your own slant on my content.

I respect people's opinion if they want a definite stance to either keep or sack Russell, I'm not in either camp, that's my stance

Not sure how much clearer I can be

 

[YamandU]

Recurring hamstring injuries should not happen. Fault lies with S&C team &/or the players commitment to do the strength work. Posterior chain.

 

[slashin_velvet]

Great physical fitness to outrun and out repeat sprints the Demons

A text platform is always a challenge as sarcasm isn't always obvious....

A look at the score worm suggests we were lucky we built up a big enough lead, and their inaccurate kicking saved us an embarrassing loss from lack of fitness.

Cerra was playing very well until subbed off, McGovern and Martin both ran out of puff. Hardly compelling

 

[Arr0w]

A text platform is always a challenge as sarcasm isn't always obvious....

A look at the score worm suggests we were lucky we built up a big enough lead, and their inaccurate kicking saved us an embarrassing loss from lack of fitness.

Cerra was playing very well until subbed off, McGovern and Martin both ran out of puff. Hardly compellingView attachment 1986616

Or you could look at it in other ways

We out ran them (factual) enough to build a lead, to hang on

Eerily similar to the Cats and Port game

Swans, Hawks *, also outran their opponents

Not always a given of course

 

[sparkybagger]

The Cez-hammy thing reminds me of Ryan Giggs in his prime. He was always pinging the bloody things and nearly retired at 27 because of it.

The good news is that a change in training methods (hello) and diet enabled him to play until the age of 40. Yoga was crucial in him staying on the park.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Was it Yoga or Kama sutra with mistresses during the week Sparky?


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[sparkybagger]

Was it Yoga or Kama sutra with mistresses during the week Sparky?


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Will have to ask his brother....

 

[slashin_velvet]

Or you could look at it in other ways

We out ran them (factual) enough to build a lead, to hang on

Eerily similar to the Cats and Port game

Swans, Hawks *, also outran their opponents

Not always a given of course

We won by a point - they had 20 more inside 50s and had 21 scores to our 17. If they had kicked a bit straighter (or Kemp didn't get that dangerous tackle free) we would have lost.

The possession % tell a pretty compelling story on our fitness and ability to run out the game. (Blues on the left, Dees on the right)

 

[Arr0w]

We won by a point - they had 20 more inside 50s and had 21 scores to our 17. If they had kicked a bit straighter (or Kemp didn't get that dangerous tackle free) we would have lost.

The possession % tell a pretty compelling story on our fitness and ability to run out the game. (Blues on the left, Dees on the right)

View attachment 1986698

Not unusual though, plenty of instances throughout the season

Perhaps their lack of fitness contributed to poor execution

Facts are, we out ran them, so perhaps that was a contributing factor to setting up an early lead and hanging on

Or the reverse, coming from behind against the Lions where we also out ran them

Or taking your example, we had 21 more inside 50s against the Cats, but only 2 more scoring shots, and still outran them

Swings and roundabouts

Ultimately, the numbers suggest we seem to be fit enough to complete with all sides

 

[Soapy V]

If your measuring stick is that the majority of 45 players are healthy then him and his team are doing a good job, then that’s a ridiculously low bar. That’s the bare minimum - especially for someone as handsomely paid as him.

How has the health of our list compared with the rest of the comps during his tenure?

With all due respect, you don’t seem to have an opinion on the debate - it’s mostly “we don’t know so we can’t comment”, which is essentially shutting down debate. So I do wonder why you’re in the thread.

Great post.

Standards are vital and we must get better. Any less is back to the levels of mediocrity we suffered with over the least 20 years

 

[Soapy V]

The Cez-hammy thing reminds me of Ryan Giggs in his prime. He was always pinging the bloody things and nearly retired at 27 because of it.

The good news is that a change in training methods (hello) and diet enabled him to play until the age of 40. Yoga was crucial in him staying on the park.

It was tightness so they didn’t risk him. Issue is he still felt it. Be interesting to see if better stretching, yoga etc would help

 

[BlueTongue]

I personally think that there are a lot of factors that contribute significantly to our injuries, that are not related to our HPM.

Specifically;

• Recruitment - the SOS era netted a lot of High-Risk, potentially high reward players, whom were under injury clouds before they got here. (Marchbank,Martin,McGovern - curse of the 'M's?)
• Disposal - If you don't hit targets, you turn the ball over and are instantly on your bike the other way. Two-way running is very taxing for an entire game.
• Game-Plan - Our Game plan is numbers around the ball, and tackles/pressure acts. You need to ensure you put teams away early if you are going to play this way as its physically taxing to have players (2-way) running in support.
• Reliance on Guns - This one is my pet hate. It's always our big names that have to lift for us to win. We need to have contributors across the board. Playing 'a role' is fine but we need more of our 2nd/2rd tier to find some consistency. We have to rest our stars more, suck it up and leave the younger brigade take some heat. We have a lot of talented youngsters, but too many of them 'Go Missing' which means they are not yet fit enough, or they need to play in the VFL until they show they are hungry enough.