Autopsy Round 9, 2024: Hawthorn v St.Kilda

[gringo2011]

Correct what happend to Forwards in front or shoulder to shoulder if we are going to play the dump kick forward 101 also down the line there should alway be one player at the back of the pack and one forward for the spills -so many times saints all flew and Hawthorn ran away with the ground ball

King was actually running back towards defenders yesterday at one point when in space and we had the ball. I think he might be a a bit basic or have no footy IQ. Never seen a forward running away form opportunity.

 

[jh38]

Correct what happend to Forwards in front or shoulder to shoulder if we are going to play the dump kick forward 101 also down the line there should alway be one player at the back of the pack and one forward for the spills -so many times saints all flew and Hawthorn ran away with the ground ball

Our forward structure in general is absolute crap. We constantly have 5 blokes standing within a 15m radius of each other. We make it so easy for opposition teams to defend whilst also giving ourselves no space to run into and use. We should push a few more numbers up to the contest to help chain out from stoppage and give the forwards a bit more room to lead.

Our forward 50 entries aren't a midfield delivery issue, its a forwards issue.

 

[Yawkey way]

They have finally amassed some high end kids that look like they should be elite and should be able to jump hard at some point. The danger for us is that our mediocrity cycle continues until Steele, Marshall, Sinclair all retire and we are still middling but then fall off a cliff. Guys like Owens, Windy etc move up and become the middling list talent and we sit in perpetual blandness. Not good enough to win anything but not bad enough to get the top end talent in.

They have the same problems all bottom teams have which is holes in the list and an obvious lack. We needs mids they need keys, which are easier to find ?. This is a midfielders draft and they’re already stacked with young mids, do they trade pick 1 ?.

 

[gringo2011]

The only midfields worse on paper than ours off the top of my head is West Coasts and Richmonds. And I’m not even sure theirs is strictly worse. Blaming Marshall, one of our few actually good players, is definitely a take. He’s not a tap ruck the same way Ryder was but that isn’t the only thing that makes a ruckman quality, McEvoy was rather similar in that regard and so is Tim English.

As for dump kicks, half our side does it and has for a long time. It is either a leftover from doing it for so long or Ross still actively encourages it as part of our game plan as well. Which wouldn’t shock me thinking back to past Ross teams.

Richmond have Hopper and Taranto who at their best are close to elite though. We have Crouch and Dow who are both a step down. Baker, Prestia and Ross etc. There is more talent there just most are consistently injured.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Jack Higgins - 1.9 goals a game this season, 2nd highest total goal scorer for the team behind Membrey.

 

[gringo2011]

They have the same problems all bottom teams have which is holes in the list and an obvious lack. We needs mids they need keys, which are easier to find ?. This is a midfielders draft and they’re already stacked with young mids, do they trade pick 1 ?.

But piling games into them should get a boost at some point. They are at the danger of losing them all or having over pay to keep them but at least talent can be traded out for more picks or existing talent. The worst situation is when you are over paying GOPs like we were.

 

[Yawkey way]

The ball is still moving off HB well. He's just not able to impact like last year. He's had one really good game this year. The rest he looks like a player who missed preseason. I'd persist and patch up HB. Our midfield is so bad it's costing us games.

It’s his decision making and the speed at which he gets the ball out of his hands. He opens up the opposition like a can of sardines. We’re not getting that at present, the quick transition from defence to attack isn’t there we’re going via the cape way too often.

If shoemaker has a big day I want to see him get a run next week.

 

[gringo2011]

Jack Higgins - 1.9 goals a game this season, 2nd highest total goal scorer for the team behind Membrey.

Which looks great but like all of our other forwards he doesn't hold the ball inside 50 or work hard enough without the ball.

 

[Cairnsman]

King can’t crash a pack.

This is going to be controversial for some but he's your classic bruise free footballer.

ZERO tackles yesterday.

Refuses to put his body into a contest unless he is sitting out the back and jumping from behind the pack.

ZERO tackles!

What sought of an example would he be to his team mates.

 

[Saintbloke]

Rattan was getting as much out of us as Lyon. Lyon has had anything he could dream of. Lyon has better youth to work with. Both fell over when injury hit.

No s**t we need more talent. I have been saying it for 15 years. I was wrong about Ratts, he was getting the most out of a pretty ordinary list.

In 2024 our best players are Wilkie- an undersized KPF with a huge heart, Hill- a hard running 30 year old who hates to tackle but gets all over the field, Steele pretty much an Olly Wines level player, Marshall who is like Tim English, Nas who isn't as good as last year but still very good and Sinclair who is about at 75% of what he was last year. Misses kicks and handball that he'd hit last year but getting better.

Then a drop down to maybe Battle, Stocker, Howard and Bonner.

Go and compare that to the Bulldogs, Port, Suns even Adelaide. If the kids don't come on this time we are royally ****ed because every bit of hope we have is on Wilson, Owens, Windhager, Phillipou etc. If they end up being another Coffield, Clark type of disappointment we are 10 years off.

If injury hadn't hit in Ratt's last season, we probably would have scraped into the final 8 again and there would have been nothing much to complain about. There was no need to sack him TBH and I reckon he probably worked better with the young kids than Lyon who is not a development kind of coach- he does his best on a list which is already showing good signs.

 

[gringo2011]

It’s his decision making and the speed at which he gets the ball out of his hands. He opens up the opposition like a can of sardines. We’re not getting that at present, the quick transition from defence to attack isn’t there we’re going via the cape way too often.

If shoemaker has a big day I want to see him get a run next week.

You won't get any argument from me about playing kids. Sincs needs to move on ball more because there is no-one else ATM. Bonner is not as bad as people make out. He's serviceable apart from his turn over game.

 

[puntking]

This is going to be controversial for some but he's your classic bruise free footballer.

ZERO tackles yesterday.

Refuses to put his body into a contest unless he is sitting out the back and jumping from behind the pack.

ZERO tackles!

What sought of an example would he be to his team mates.

Did membrey get any tackles?

 

[Yawkey way]

But piling games into them should get a boost at some point. They are at the danger of losing them all or having over pay to keep them but at least talent can be traded out for more picks or existing talent. The worst situation is when you are over paying GOPs like we were.

I don’t see them flying past us, if we have another good offseason I think everyone will be very happy with where we are. I absolutely love some of our young guys, add a couple of young mids, a ruckman and a key defender and you’re starting to lock in launch dates.

 

[gringo2011]

Give it time gringo, this year had to happen let’s make the most of it a get a high pick mid.

Melbourne was 9 years prelim to prelim in their embarrassing rebuild. We are 14 years since we were seriously in line for a crack at a flag and look another 5 years off building a list for it. And that's if everything we do is a win. A few more blown first round picks and we are in trouble.

 

[BrutThough]

Poor Higgins copping strays after a game he didn't even play in.

 

[gringo2011]

Did membrey get any tackles?

Memberey is a senior citizen that looks close to the end. It's like saying that Henry played great because Seb Ross wasn't any better. If you hold them up as the gold standard you never get anywhere.

 

[gringo2011]

Poor Higgins copping strays after a game he didn't even play in.

How is he copping anything apart from saying that he has flaws in his game. Do you think he's elite?

 

[Saintbloke]

Poor Higgins copping strays after a game he didn't even play in.

Even not playing, he probably did better than a couple of our forwards yesterday...

 

[BrutThough]

How is he copping anything apart from saying that he has flaws in his game. Do you think he's elite?

I think he wasn't strong enough in the contest yesterday.

 

[Yawkey way]

You won't get any argument from me about playing kids. Sincs needs to move on ball more because there is no-one else ATM. Bonner is not as bad as people make out. He's serviceable apart from his turn over game.

He was good yesterday, I’d play owens in there it’s time we saw what he can do. In fact given his strength and head over the ball ability I was shocked that in a rolling maul game he wasn’t given a run.

Love the look of Hastie by the way, there’s a very good footballer with another season under his belt.

 

[gringo2011]

I don’t see them flying past us, if we have another good offseason I think everyone will be very happy with where we are. I absolutely love some of our young guys, add a couple of young mids, a ruckman and a key defender and you’re starting to lock in launch dates.

Wilson looks the goods so far. Owens, Phillipou on the verge of looking like they might not be as good as we'd hoped. Windhager looking solid. After that Shoemaker looks like the best hope. Garcia and Hastie look like decent depth too.

I'm starting to feel sick at the thought that another lot of kids might not be as great as we'd hoped.

 

[phantom13]

They have the same problems all bottom teams have which is holes in the list and an obvious lack. We needs mids they need keys, which are easier to find ?. This is a midfielders draft and they’re already stacked with young mids, do they trade pick 1 ?.

I think this whole “holes in the lost” thing is a bit overstated.

We all agree their midfield is stacked. Their forward line has Larkey, Zurhaar, Curtis and Ford plus some floating role players. Their backline has Logue, Combden, Corr and Goater.

Their issue is that all their top end players are injured or young.

Their other issue will be keeping everyone together.

 

[gringo2011]

I think he wasn't strong enough in the contest yesterday.

That's quite funny from you. I always think of you as the Gerald Whatley of the forum.

 

[BigPowerForward]

How is he copping anything apart from saying that he has flaws in his game. Do you think he's elite?

1.9 goals as a small forward is elite. I would rather him in the team even with his all his flaws.

 

[Cairnsman]

Did membrey get any tackles?

No he didn't, clearly he's struggling and possibly still clearly dealing with personal issues so I'd go easy on him.

The 23 year old Max though was selected with our very valuable 4DP to come in and be star of the competition, a player we can build a team around, he's got talent, no question of that, but what is totally inexcusable is how he's refusing to be a team player without ball in hand. He's fast become a bruise free player, he refuses to lead and crash packs, he constantly sits out the back and jumps from behind refusing to use his body in any other way. Also unforgivable is watching him watch a player who is only 1m in front of him run off him and refusing to chase or put on any pressure on the opposition, and all of this from a bloke that is supposed to be an athletic specimen nicknamed Winx.