Autopsy Round 10, 2024: St.Kilda v Fremantle

[Ephemeral Hope]

Once again from what it sounds and reading between the lines both Ross and Pou no exactly where he is at atm. Even sounds like Pou wants to go back to the vfl and dominate.

Poor management if even pou wanted to have a bit more time there and we still played hkm

 

[phantom13]

So you are suggesting they should play like our forward coach did.
Who could possibly communicate that to the playing group?

Not quite, just kick it like him to leading players. I actually think Harves was one of the best inside 50 kicks in footy history.

I did appreciate the gag though.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

So...

Jones in for Stocker (we got older)

but

Collard in for Garcia - push
Phillipou in for Hastie - push

Dow in for Ross - younger
Sharman in for Member - younger
Caminiti in for Hayes - younger

My point? All those who want us to grab that top 5 draft pick? This is what it looks like. This is what you signed up for.

Some other thoughts:

• I can't really remember Phillipou getting an easy touch this year, or having the ball in space. He never gets any cheap ball.
• Ok, so Bonner had some shockers this week and my bet offer is off. But when he went to take the next kick in after the big blunder and the crowd started booing ... I mean, is he more likely to hit a target when his own supporters are booing him or less likely?
• We just fumble all the time. Do all our players have Donald Trump hands? Freo were cleaner, and they won because of it.
• Max has to find a way to succeed in spite of being assaulted. That's the way it is.
• Nice five minutes from Caminiti.

I didn’t know he got booed. Disgraceful to boo your own player unless they’ve done something genuinely reprehensible not just playing poorly

 

[True Believer]

Have you not been watching?
Or maybe when it was said he asked to keep playing vfl?
He used to wanna be the guy to kick a goal from 60 to win the game. Looks like his attacking flair has been squashed.

He never said anything, the coach said something.

Sorry, I must have missed the memo where AFL coaches now tell only 100% truth at press conferences now......

 

[Saint Shags]

If anything it sounded like a complete disconnect to me.

Also Ross has been in the media a long time, so he either knew that saying that about Pou would lead to a stack of pundits saying its s**t that Pou wants to play twos OR hes completely forgotten what the media does.

The comment was really really poor IMO. If thats a convo that happened between player and coach it should remain between player and coach.

Ross trying to be too cute in his pressers.

To me it kind of reminds me of the comments towards Membrey last year.
It didn't really need to be said. There was no winner there and made Membrey look poorer for it. And then it went further.

I think the comment on Pou highlighted that the coaches thought better but by the actual reality the player may have been more knowledgeable.

 

[my name was taken]

Also in 09 we finished top, know what our offense ranked? 4th. So we werent THAT good scoring wise.

Averaged 100, 12 games over 100, 6 games in the 90s. Id say that's pretty good if only 4 regular season games are under 90.

 

[Saint Shags]

Bonner is playing good attacking footy so i get why hes playing i just dont think we should have picked him up if were rebuilding

Would it be fair to say that 'rebuild' was not part of the vocab heading into the season?

 

[Saint Shags]

2009 - our % was 155.7% the highest

The second highest was 127.4%

Yes we were only the 4th ranked offence but silly old me would take that result - some others are never satisfied.

We aren't saying that it wasn't good. What is being noted is that for all his successes as a coach all of his teams have been defence first.

And that second highest just happened to win the flag.

 

[phantom13]

Would it be fair to say that 'rebuild' was not part of the vocab heading into the season?

I dont recall it being a thing pre season but others are ADAMANT it was always the plan.

 

[phantom13]

Averaged 100, 12 games over 100, 6 games in the 90s. Id say that's pretty good if only 4 regular season games are under 90.

JFC, sure his one year where an offense was top 4 (but we finished first) is definitely the sign hes an offence first coach.

 

[phantom13]

He never said anything, the coach said something.

Sorry, I must have missed the memo where AFL coaches now tell only 100% truth at press conferences now......

Why on Earth would he lie about that? Who and how does it benefit anyone.

 

[SG34]

Poor management if even pou wanted to have a bit more time there and we still played hkm

I note that Mattaes Phillipou spent just 71% of game time on the field - the lowest outside the Sharman-Zac Jones sub equation.

It's almost Hunter Clarke-like time (when he got a game) ..

So the idea that we have to put time on the clock for Pou, well it's on the bosses time.

People who say we should put time into the kids at all costs, burn the season down to the ground, pick up draft picks etc., well they may also be the first to blame RTB for the mounting losses, and point out the win-loss ratio as some have done for his final few years at Freo. As some did for Brad Scott, who was an excellent coach for North but had to swallow their crazy tanking plan. It went the way of the Titan submersible.

 

[phantom13]

I note that Mattaes Phillipou spent just 71% of game time on the field - the lowest outside the Sharman-Zac Jones sub equation.

It's almost Hunter Clarke-like time (when he got a game) ..

So the idea that we have to put time on the clock for Pou, well it's on the bosses time.

People who say we should put time into the kids at all costs, burn the season down to the ground, pick up draft picks etc., well they may also be the first to blame RTB for the mounting losses, and point out the win-loss ratio as some have done for his final few years at Freo. As some did for Brad Scott, who was an excellent coach for North but had to swallow their crazy tanking plan. It went the way of the Titan submersible.

I certainly won’t.

The seasons cooked now anyway, I’d just like to see his gameplan adjust so we don’t **** the development as well as the win/loss ratio.

 

[Sully111]

Bassat said Ratten was moved on because the list was capable of more.

We've improved the list since then (I think so, anyway) and now apparently the reason we're sh*t is because the list is no good.

Even Joey and King on first crack are full of excuses for us, when King had us as potentially top 4 at the start of the year.

Our list needs to improve, but right now, the coaches are failing us. Players are going backwards. Our cohesion as a team is going backwards.

I'm not buying the bulls*t I'm being fed.

 

[True Believer]

Why on Earth would he lie about that? Who and how does it benefit anyone.

Talking about a young kid that potentially could have been sent to go and play in the VFL again this week and "he was happy to do that"......of course he was.

Painting the player as happy to fall into line no matter what the coaches tell him to do......wouldn't happen would it?

 

[g_TRAIN]

Talking about a young kid that potentially could have been sent to go and play in the VFL again this week and "he was happy to do that"......of course he was.

Painting the player as happy to fall into line no matter what the coaches tell him to do......wouldn't happen would it?

It wouldn't happen.

Lyon is many things but he's not an absolute moron.

 

[Saintbloke]

Bassat said Ratten was moved on because the list was capable of more.

We've improved the list since then (I think so, anyway) and now apparently the reason we're sh*t is because the list is no good.

Even Joey and King on first crack are full of excuses for us, when King had us as potentially top 4 at the start of the year.

Our list needs to improve, but right now, the coaches are failing us. Players are going backwards. Our cohesion as a team is going backwards.

I'm not buying the bulls*t I'm being fed.

Bassat fed supporters a load of bull- he wanted quick fixes and presumed somehow Lyon was going to make it like to was in 2010. Rebuilds are only an excuse for failure.

 

[phantom13]

Talking about a young kid that potentially could have been sent to go and play in the VFL again this week and "he was happy to do that"......of course he was.

Painting the player as happy to fall into line no matter what the coaches tell him to do......wouldn't happen would it?

So the fact that nearly all the media chatter about it has been negative (why would a young player want to go to the VFL) was just an accident?

Hes either made an error in judgement or hes trying to send a weird message.

Either way, to me, thats a convo between player and coach that shouldnt be publically relayed OR its a lie thats blown up in his face. Either way, its a poor outcome.

 

[SteeleSaints]

I dont think the club are tanking far from it, this year has been a culmination of issues. Firstly our injuries cruelled our already very ordinary midfield and shallow senior list. Then we lost Webster & Higgins to suspensions and we have been trying to move the deck chairs on the titanic ever since. It is why I was so out spoken about the amount of injuries earlier in the season, I could forsee the issues it would create.

Then Lyon has tried to stem the bleeding and gone super defensive and because the players have been playing that way for the majority of the year, now he simply cant flick the switch and become an attacking team again. Due to our poor midfield and list we needed all our senior soldiers available and playing consistently together for a period. That just hasnt occurred - hence our shocking results and the reason we have so many younger players out of form.

Secondly we are in the middle of a semi list rebuild, hence the amount of kids we have been playing, but so are most clubs apart from the top echelon. I am not a Lyon hater quite the opposite, but I seriously dislike the brand of football he has had us playing this year. I would much rather see the club say we are struggling because of the loss of critcial senior players, yet still attempt to take games on offensively. If that meant we got touched up in games so be it, but it would also give us a much better chance of winning other games.

Continually playing defensive footy has players questioning themselves and being more worried about their opponents than the footy. We have also seen players questioning what they do with the footy particularly in our F50 zone its a mess. So with the injuries and player availability a start to the year we have had was inevitable, but that has been accentuated and worsened by the brand of footy Lyon has the team playing. Lyon is a good coach but he has lost sight of the best way to develop players and that he needs to present a sellable product or the club will suffer as it has been.

 

[Brian Oblivion]

It wouldn't happen.

Lyon is many things but he's not an absolute moron.

He's not a fisherman's housewife either but does he dream ?

 

[sauce_head]

Agreed. And I remember having the same complaints during Ross’ last tenure.
Last year the kids were playing how they knew to play and had fun. Now they’ve had a year of rossification their natural ability has been stifled to play boring defensive footy. It’s a sad watch. Ross likes his runners and defenders.
Pou was a confident somewhat arrogant character who we needed. Now he’s a shell of the kid he was.

His averages this year are almost exactly the same as last year. Down 1 disposal and 0.2 goals a game this year.

AFL Tables - Mattaes Phillipou - Stats - Statistics

I still think he should be doing better though and, obviously, his last few games have been pretty terrible.

 

[The Punter]

His averages this year are almost exactly the same as last year. Down 1 disposal and 0.2 goals a game this year.

AFL Tables - Mattaes Phillipou - Stats - Statistics

I still think he should be doing better though and, obviously, his last few games have been pretty terrible.

He wasn't setting the world on fire before, but there is a clear drop off after the Richmond game (or when the fixture got really tight with the consecutive short breaks and the consecutive interstate trips).

 

[phantom13]

He wasn't setting the world on fire before, but there is a clear drop off after the Richmond game (or when the fixture got really tight with the consecutive short breaks and the consecutive interstate trips).

Its also the quality and impact of his touches.

He used to get the ball and look to create and take players on, now he gets it and hes desperately looking to give quick first option hands (usually to someone with an opponent hanging off them). Hes not on his own, first hands is clearly a team directive but the impact its having on him looks palpable.

 

[StCicatriz]

Bassat said Ratten was moved on because the list was capable of more.

We've improved the list since then (I think so, anyway) and now apparently the reason we're sh*t is because the list is no good.

Even Joey and King on first crack are full of excuses for us, when King had us as potentially top 4 at the start of the year.

Our list needs to improve, but right now, the coaches are failing us. Players are going backwards. Our cohesion as a team is going backwards.

I'm not buying the bulls*t I'm being fed.

Bassat has form in this area. He has waxed and waned on his assessment that he has communicated to members a number of times.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Saw this on a Saints Facebook page and its too funny not to share, now that's a rant


We are ****ing shit!
We need to kick goals to win games of football. Why the **** are we so shit at scoring??? Zero forward craft. We are the shittest team to watch in the league. Shittest game plan, most pathetic offense, over hand balling, absolute ****ing trash! Pox ridden ****ing dog shit