Jacinta Allan - 49th Victorian Premier.

[Blue1980]

Yep and they spend their lives protesting whatever issue is current before moving to the next…

It’s like you believe anyone protesting is a) the same people each time and b) disingenuous

Its pure projection from right wingers like yourself who don’t care about anyone or anything that doesn’t affect you, you can’t comprehend anyone who does actually care.

 

[Saint]

All of peetoo's recent points are well taken, except for the fact that the first level has not been provided for the West yet. More metro trains for areas between Cheltenham and Box Hill before any for Deer Park. Makes perfect sense. <end sarcasm font>

Also, worth pointing out that one of the major points of difference during the 2018 state election was the LNP's plan was to decentralise, and the ALP's plan was to centralise. The LNP's policies were aimed at getting the population growth to be in regional cities and not in metropolitan Melbourne. Not surprisingly, a policy suite aimed at getting people moving out of Melbourne was not well received in Melbourne, where Victorian elections are won and lost.

Decentralisation is wishful thinking to make things like Transport planning easier.

What's actually the problem with the CBD growing? It does so because it feeds off itself. Medical research in Parkville wants to be near the money-lenders which fund and benefit.

It's actually easier to provide accessibility to the CBD where every suburb with a train can get to than to a suburb on one side of town.

If the problem is that Metro projects are the only option and that's expensive, then a similarly expensive project further out isn't the solution.

Planners have been talking about decentralisation for decades, maybe centuries, and it's never been an ongoing success anywhere. Building dormitory cities like Ballarat and Geelong and Bendigo up to feed into Melbourne doesn't really solve any problem, just moves it around.

Watching people throw money in cities at decentralisation is like when the Roman Emperor ordered his soldiers to throw their spears at the ocean.

 

[Sttew]

like I said there's always an excuse for why any location chosen for one of these sites is the wrong location, plenty of drug use happens in that area already just out in the open

Big week for you. First, you see no problem with protestors tampering with traffic lights if it advances the cause. Now you're saying its okay to build an injection facility next to a tourist attraction because the injection facilities have to go somewhere.

 

[Gralin]

Decentralisation is wishful thinking to make things like Transport planning easier.

What's actually the problem with the CBD growing? It does so because it feeds off itself. Medical research in Parkville wants to be near the money-lenders which fund and benefit.

It's actually easier to provide accessibility to the CBD where every suburb with a train can get to than to a suburb on one side of town.

If the problem is that Metro projects are the only option and that's expensive, then a similarly expensive project further out isn't the solution.

Planners have been talking about decentralisation for decades, maybe centuries, and it's never been an ongoing success anywhere. Building dormitory cities like Ballarat and Geelong and Bendigo up to feed into Melbourne doesn't really solve any problem, just moves it around.

Watching people throw money in cities at decentralisation is like when the Roman Emperor ordered his soldiers to throw their spears at the ocean.

PT shouldn't just be about funneling people into the CBD though

Not every one works or lives or wants to go there

people need to be able to use PT to go to work in the suburbs, go to the doctor, the hospital, shops, school, visit friends etc

this focus on PT as purely a vehicle to get people into the city is part of the problem and I am not saying SRL is a solution to that either

 

[Gralin]

Big week for you. First, you see no problem with protestors tampering with traffic lights if it advances the cause. Now you're saying its okay to build an injection facility next to a tourist attraction because the injection facilities have to go somewhere.

i dont see people tampering with traffic lights as a reason to give cops more powers

as you yourself mentioned its a criminal act meaning the cops can deal with it without changes to protest laws or rights

I don't see an issue with an injecting room being near a tourist location when there are people in that part of town already shooting up

I'd rather see the injecting room go ahead than not go ahead, if they're moving it to a more suitable location I have no issue with that but canceling it altogether is just s**t policy

 

[Saint]

PT shouldn't just be about funneling people into the CBD though

Not every one works or lives or wants to go there

people need to be able to use PT to go to work in the suburbs, go to the doctor, the hospital, shops, school, visit friends etc

this focus on PT as purely a vehicle to get people into the city is part of the problem and I am not saying SRL is a solution to that either

There's a hierarchy of transport network needs which are met by a hierarchy of PT solutions. For trunk services into a CBD, that's where the value of a tunnel carrying 10,000-20,000 people per hour can be realised.

For orbital requirements, it's rare that demands would reach the point that a cheaper solution wouldn't be more appropriate.

If we can't afford to build the overheads and tracks within existing corridors for growth areas in the West at a fraction of the cost, then I'm completely at a loss as to how we can afford the SRL megaproject which will have a fraction of the ridership.

The Western Rail Plan is 10x cheaper and will carry 10x as many passengers.

I don't think there's any such thing as an orbital rail tunnel 20km from the centre of a city anywhere in the world. Tokyo's western orbital is not that far out. Certainly not in a city which doesn't even have basic metro services for half the city.

 

[Gralin]

There's a hierarchy of transport network needs which are met by a hierarchy of PT solutions. For trunk services into a CBD, that's where the value of a tunnel carrying 10,000-20,000 people per hour can be realised.

For orbital requirements, it's rare that demands would reach the point that a cheaper solution wouldn't be more appropriate.

If we can't afford to build the overheads and tracks within existing corridors for growth areas in the West at a fraction of the cost, then I'm completely at a loss as to how we can afford the SRL megaproject which will have a fraction of the ridership.

The Western Rail Plan is 10x cheaper and will carry 10x as many passengers.

I don't think there's any such thing as an orbital rail tunnel 20km from the centre of a city anywhere in the world. Tokyo's western orbital is not that far out. Certainly not in a city which doesn't even have basic metro services for half the city.

Again I'm not arguing that Im saying as long as the focus is just on train projects we'll never get good PT

We need money spent everywhere we need the network run properly as a network

It needs to be done for benefit of the community not political gain

Currently none of that is happening

 

[peetoo]

There's a hierarchy of transport network needs which are met by a hierarchy of PT solutions. For trunk services into a CBD, that's where the value of a tunnel carrying 10,000-20,000 people per hour can be realised.

For orbital requirements, it's rare that demands would reach the point that a cheaper solution wouldn't be more appropriate.

If we can't afford to build the overheads and tracks within existing corridors for growth areas in the West at a fraction of the cost, then I'm completely at a loss as to how we can afford the SRL megaproject which will have a fraction of the ridership.

The Western Rail Plan is 10x cheaper and will carry 10x as many passengers.

I don't think there's any such thing as an orbital rail tunnel 20km from the centre of a city anywhere in the world. Tokyo's western orbital is not that far out. Certainly not in a city which doesn't even have basic metro services for half the city.

I guarantee that if the current govt was proposing ‘overhead’ the very same opponents would be reeling out the reasons it’s ‘bad’

Oh sorry they already have - Skyrail - has the New York 1970s ghetto vibe happened yet? Seems like a resounding success.

Laughable

 

[peetoo]

Again I'm not arguing that Im saying as long as the focus is just on train projects we'll never get good PT

We need money spent everywhere we need the network run properly as a network

It needs to be done for benefit of the community not political gain

Currently none of that is happening

Mate this Govt is doing things which haven’t happened or been talked about for decades. Only Kennets mob comes close

I see we are all now taking this for granted - where is the guarantee the alternat govt could step up to the plate?

Sydney centric pollies love to see us quibble amongst ourselves, and direct funding elsewhere

 

[Gralin]

Mate this Govt is doing things which haven’t happened or been talked about for decades. Only Kennets mob comes close

I have no idea what point you are trying to make with this.

I see we are all now taking this for granted - where is the guarantee the alternat govt could step up to the plate?

Where did I say anything that makes this relevant?

Sydney centric pollies love to see us quibble amongst ourselves, and direct funding elsewhere

Again, relevance?

 

[leon123]

We really need satellite cities like they try with Geelong and Ballarat except the jobs largely stayed in the CBD and it just meant more commuting

But we also need to think of PT as more than getting people to the city

More than just getting to work

It needs to be a viable alternative to driving for a lot more things and while i don't disagree that we need something like SRL linking the spokes its not a solution to most of those issues

if i had the time, id share you population numbers that are expected for greater Melbourne over the next 30 years, the sheer volume means your suggestion will make very little difference, unless yoyu are talking about quadrupling say Ballarat from 100,000 to 400,000.... not feasible for many reasons, doubling to 200,000 (again not really feasible) is a small slice of expected growth across Melbs

 

[Gralin]

if i had the time, id share you population numbers that are expected for greater Melbourne over the next 30 years, the sheer volume means your suggestion will make very little difference, unless yoyu are talking about quadrupling say Ballarat from 100,000 to 400,000.... not feasible for many reasons, doubling to 200,000 (again not really feasible) is a small slice of expected growth across Melbs

That's the thing, it's not my suggestion.

They tried it half arse and it didn't work and I think they've largely given up on it

Our urban sprawl is the biggest problem in greater Melbourne people are too spread out for the infrastructure to keep up

 

[Rob R]

Jacinta being lauded for canning one of Dan's "babies", the injecting facility in the CBD (imagine sighting an injecting facility next door to a tourist attraction in Degraves Place).

What next? Will she pause SRL?

Shame she didn't do the right thing and shut the other one and pay compensation to all the local residents for the stress and financial harm caused by Dan's failure (in particular putting kids at risk by having it in that location).

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[leon123]

That's the thing, it's not my suggestion.

They tried it half arse and it didn't work and I think they've largely given up on it

Our urban sprawl is the biggest problem in greater Melbourne people are too spread out for the infrastructure to keep up

yep, couldnt agree more.

I know its a cultural change for people who have lived in Aus for lets say 20+ years, but sadly, the answer is: the only way is up. The challenge is where and to do well - transport access is always the key (public, not private, given the densities we will experience)

 

[leon123]

So is SRL a ‘cynical ploy for votes’ or not? Sounds more like serious forward planning to me. The sort of thing which built this great city, but somehow lost when activity centres such as airport, Latrobe Monash Deakin chadstone were planned without public transport considerations

Its serious planning, and another perspective, think of it as land/housing supply creation with transport access.

Its a great project, but costs a few dollars we dont have - i can understand the short-term debate

 

[Sttew]

So is SRL a ‘cynical ploy for votes’ or not? Sounds more like serious forward planning to me. The sort of thing which built this great city, but somehow lost when activity centres such as airport, Latrobe Monash Deakin chadstone were planned without public transport considerations

Let me ask your question. Is SRL so important for Melbourne to warrant the government having to shelve the Airport Rail Link, the Melton line, the Wyndham line, repair of 100kms of highways, etc?

 

[peetoo]

There's a hierarchy of transport network needs which are met by a hierarchy of PT solutions. For trunk services into a CBD, that's where the value of a tunnel carrying 10,000-20,000 people per hour can be realised.

For orbital requirements, it's rare that demands would reach the point that a cheaper solution wouldn't be more appropriate.

If we can't afford to build the overheads and tracks within existing corridors for growth areas in the West at a fraction of the cost, then I'm completely at a loss as to how we can afford the SRL megaproject which will have a fraction of the ridership.

The Western Rail Plan is 10x cheaper and will carry 10x as many passengers.

I don't think there's any such thing as an orbital rail tunnel 20km from the centre of a city anywhere in the world. Tokyo's western orbital is not that far out. Certainly not in a city which doesn't even have basic metro services for half the city.

Isn’t the problem with train transport west of the river that historically, travel times on the Westgate beat the equivalent trains by 15 minutes? Even before the time spent travelling to a station and parking?

Imagine twice as many people using trains into city? Massive massive car parks required I guess SRL doesn’t solve that either

Or we could get higher capacity bike infrastructure

 

[peetoo]

Let me ask your question. Is SRL so important for Melbourne to warrant the government having to shelve the Airport Rail Link, the Melton line, the Wyndham line, repair of 100kms of highways, etc?

Also we don’t know publicly how much $$ will be needed once n-s metro frees up the existing city loop - to improve signalling etc to bring it to the same frequency standard as the N-s metro

Would have thought that was the highest priority, to multiply the gains possible from metro and level crossing removals

Perhaps we do know the budget, but what will it blow out to?

 

[Sttew]

Also we don’t know publicly how much $$ will be needed once n-s metro frees up the existing city loop - to improve signalling etc to bring it to the same frequency standard as the N-s metro

Would have thought that was the highest priority, to multiply the gains possible from metro and level crossing removals

Perhaps we do know the budget, but what will it blow out to?

That’s all fine, but how about answering my question?

 

[peetoo]

That’s all fine, but how about answering my question?

I never commented on priorities, just commented that while SRL has issues, there are a lot of commentators who are representing it in the worst possible way ‘a few students’ etc

Noted that some of the opponents now suggest skyrail up arterial roads might be an alternative, but skyrail had its opponents too.

From my leafy eastern suburb I would have thought truck congestion was the highest priority there, and money is being spent. Paid for in part by keeping tolling on the city link tunnel and south east freeway for a lot longer than originally agreed

And we should get more used to tolling. The high court has locked states out of a per km charge on non petrol cars, so what option does a state govt have left to build infrastructure? Tolls or gettin federal money

 

[Crankyhawk]

Plenty of people are also just stupid

or just have higher more immediate priorities than whatever cause protestors have.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Media and political commentators because she is finally demonstrating she is her own person

So no one of any functional use.

While frontline workers were all calling up to say how the decision to cancel the safe injecting room was a disaster

* the media they are useless shits.

 

[Sttew]

So no one of any functional use.

While frontline workers were all calling up to say how the decision to cancel the safe injecting room was a disaster

* the media they are useless shits.

You would have been happy to plonk the injection facility in the building purchased by the government?

 

[Gough]

You would have been happy to plonk the injection facility in the building purchased by the government?

When AIDS was spreading like wildfire through junkies sharing needles there was a fundamental change in the way we approached heroin addicts, clean needles became freely accessible and lives were saved. We need that sort of thinking again when it comes to safe injecting rooms because it will save lives again, we're not going to be isolated from all these synthetic opoids that are causing havoc elsewhere forever, we need to be proactive and not wait until we've built up a body count.

 

[Crankyhawk]

You would have been happy to plonk the injection facility in the building purchased by the government?

Sure if the study had shown the need. Basically most locals will crack the shits over having an injection room. Tough t***ies. There variance in resource allocation everywhere, some things are positive some are negative it is puerile fantasy to make decisions where no one loses.