Jacinta Allan - 49th Victorian Premier.

[eddiesmith]

Plenty of people are also just stupid

Yep and they spend their lives protesting whatever issue is current before moving to the next…

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Massive transport infrastructure projects designed for students is about as silly as building airport rail link for backpackers.

Students are only one part of it. The idea with linking up the universities is that the government envisions a knowledge economy to develop in the areas around them, with students going on to jobs in private sector research and startups located in those areas. Think Palo Alto growing into a tech city just next to Stanford University, or the Research Triangle area in North Carolina. And of course I imagine the plan is to add heavy density around each station precinct to ensure the line is useful to as many people as possible.

 

[peetoo]

Students are only one part of it. The idea with linking up the universities is that the government envisions a knowledge economy to develop in the areas around them, with students going on to jobs in private sector research and startups located in those areas. Think Palo Alto growing into a tech city just next to Stanford University, or the Research Triangle area in North Carolina. And of course I imagine the plan is to add heavy density around each station precinct to ensure the line is useful to as many people as possible.

But this is australia, the small thinkers seem to make the loudest noise.

What you have stated is tried and tested. And people on any connected line even from the country will be able to get to these activity centres. Opponents don’t bother to see this, or deliberately dont

It’s like when people were either for or against fibre in the nbn according to their political team.

Where would we be back when much of todays Melbourne rail network was laid in a 50 year periosteum, coinciding with a time when the population also doubled, as it is doing now.
If they had been small thinkers

Maybe if we said the new trains would be nuclear powered the opponents would come on board

The same opponents opposed skyrail not that long ago. Now it’s one of the alternatives they are putting forward to SRL

 

[Saint]

Students are only one part of it. The idea with linking up the universities is that the government envisions a knowledge economy to develop in the areas around them, with students going on to jobs in private sector research and startups located in those areas. Think Palo Alto growing into a tech city just next to Stanford University, or the Research Triangle area in North Carolina. And of course I imagine the plan is to add heavy density around each station precinct to ensure the line is useful to as many people as possible.

This is what CBDs are for.

Deakin and Box Hill TAFE are not the hubs of knowledge that US college campuses are.

It's still incredibly biased to one side of town. Fishermans Bend is supposed to be the future tech hub and it's a lot cheaper to connect (Metro 2) and far more central and also serves a network purpose.

Any argument about hubs along SRL is a less worthy argument than hubs along Metro 2. That's why the CBD is the CBD and nobody builds big central offices in Box Hill.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

This is what CBDs are for.

With their high real estate prices? A STEM-based startup has to compete for that office space with law firms, accountancies, investment banks, insurance companies and consultancies. And there's a lot of competition for educated talent nearby to boot. Being near a university gives them easy access to graduates. Again, Palo Alto and the Research Triangle exist, well outside established CBDs. Health and biotech precincts are almost never located in established CBDs.

And the point of including places like Glen Waverley, Doncaster, Reservoir and Broadmeadows, despite the lack of universities or hospitals nearby, is to create more business districts than just the one CBD that everybody commutes to, while also adding a large local population living densely to give it a diverse economy. It's a form of decentralisation and localisation.

Deakin and Box Hill TAFE are not the hubs of knowledge that US college campuses are.

Good work ignoring Monash University to suit your argument.

It's still incredibly biased to one side of town. Fishermans Bend is supposed to be the future tech hub and it's a lot cheaper to connect (Metro 2) and far more central and also serves a network purpose.

Centrality is overrated. I personally would have built MM2 first but it's not the complete game changer that SRL is for the pattern of urban development. I predict Fisherman's Bend will eventually be home to some tech businesses, but due to the lack of established institutions, and the high future cost of land due to being near the CBD, I think it will be more of an inner city dormitory suburb, populated by CBD workers.

Any argument about hubs along SRL is a less worthy argument than hubs along Metro 2.

You have to offer arguments for that, not simply state it as though it's axiomatic.

That's why the CBD is the CBD and nobody builds big central offices in Box Hill.

Yeah and nobody builds them in Parramatta or La Defense or Canary Wharf either. Oh, wait...

 

[Saint]

With their high real estate prices? A STEM-based startup has to compete for that office space with law firms, accountancies, investment banks, insurance companies and consultancies. And there's a lot of competition for educated talent nearby to boot. Being near a university gives them easy access to graduates. Again, Palo Alto and the Research Triangle exist, well outside established CBDs. Health and biotech precincts are almost never located in established CBDs.

And the point of including places like Glen Waverley, Doncaster, Reservoir and Broadmeadows, despite the lack of universities or hospitals nearby, is to create more business districts than just the one CBD that everybody commutes to, while also adding a large local population living densely to give it a diverse economy. It's a form of decentralisation and localisation.


Good work ignoring Monash University to suit your argument.


Centrality is overrated. I personally would have built MM2 first but it's not the complete game changer that SRL is for the pattern of urban development. I predict Fisherman's Bend will eventually be home to some tech businesses, but due to the lack of established institutions, and the high future cost of land due to being near the CBD, I think it will be more of an inner city dormitory suburb, populated by CBD workers.


You have to offer arguments for that, not simply state it as though it's axiomatic.


Yeah and nobody builds them in Parramatta or La Defense or Canary Wharf either. Oh, wait...

Box Hill offices are the same price as CBD offices to lease, they're about $520 per square metre. Most of the cost is the build, not the land price.

Canary Wharf is not a good example. You're not allowed to build high-rises in the City of London. They're all in the Boroughs just outside the City and even there it's very hard to find non-heritage land/areas.

Monash is the only one, and it's already connected to the CBD.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Box Hill offices are the same price as CBD offices to lease, they're about $520 per square metre. Most of the cost is the build, not the land price.

Do you have sources for this please? Also building infrastructure to spur business investment in a place will eventually create more supply of office space.

Canary Wharf is not a good example. You're not allowed to build high-rises in the City of London. They're all in the Boroughs just outside the City and even there it's very hard to find non-heritage land/areas.

Gee whiz, someone had better tell the owners of the buildings at 110 Cannon St and 10 Lower Thames St then, they're in violation of the law!

Monash is the only one, and it's already connected to the CBD.

Through what, a bus? Not good enough, and the point is to make it its own business centre specifically focused on startups in new technologies, not to simply be a dormitory suburb for the Melbourne CBD.

 

[Sttew]

Canary Wharf is hardly a good example. It was a white elephant for years and still has the highest office vacancy rates. Many companies including major insurers were encouraged to relocate there but returned to the City (the true business district) at the earliest opportunity.

Also, in a city with a massive underground system, the rail line built to service Docklands was the cheapest option, an above ground line (which works well).

 

[Saint]

Do you have sources for this please? Also building infrastructure to spur business investment in a place will eventually create more supply of office space.

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Don't need more supply of office space, there's already plenty of room to expand in and around the CBD.

Gee whiz, someone had better tell the owners of the buildings at 110 Cannon St and 10 Lower Thames St then, they're in violation of the law!

Those two buildings are 1/3 of the size of Box Hill's tallest existing tower. Just proves my point.

HSBC decision to quit Canary Wharf for the city rocks Docklands

Questions about the future appeal of the district on London’s eastern edge are emerging even though it remains a cheaper option.

www.afr.com

Canary Wharf is also losing out because it's not central enough, even though it's 50% cheaper than the City. Box Hill doesn't even have that advantage because the Melbourne CBD can go as high as you like and has access to 100% more employees than Box Hill (or Monash).

Through what, a bus? Not good enough, and the point is to make it its own business centre specifically focused on startups in new technologies, not to simply be a dormitory suburb for the Melbourne CBD.

Monash is already a business centre. It doesn't need to be connected to Box Hill except to make a shorter commute for a handful of people who live near Box Hill and want to commute to Monash..

Nobody who gets a job in Monash is going to think moving to Box Hill is a good idea. They'll just get an apartment in Monash or a house further out, not parallel.

 

[Saint]

Canary Wharf is hardly a good example. It was a white elephant for years and still has the highest office vacancy rates. Many companies including major insurers were encouraged to relocate there but returned to the City (the true business district) at the earliest opportunity.

Also, in a city with a massive underground system, the rail line built to service Docklands was the cheapest option, an above ground line (which works well).

The people who spruik SRL also spruik Canary Wharf and other similar locations and don't realise that despite all the Govt incentives, people still want to be central and accessible.

Melbourne is a global city based on a thriving CBD. We shouldn't spend $50bn in a vain attempt to "decentralise".

Worth mentioning that the 1970's orbital freeway plans for Melbourne were also aimed at decentralisation. How did that work out, and why do people think orbital PT will be any different?

 

[The Punter]

In the West, the transport infrastructure currently IS where it was 50 years ago. Much larger population that 50 years ago out in the West, but little investment.

All while the first tranche of the SRL coincides with a number of seats that swing from election to election.

 

[Gralin]

We've had decades of development without infrastructure planning

we'll put houses / offices / etc where there is no easy way to get there and no amenities and then complain when they don't become popular

now I'm not saying SRL is what they should be doing, clearly there are much better options than SRL for the money being spent that could deliver better infrastructure to more people

Our entire PT network is a mess, and that is in part because there is no real attempt to fix the bus network

we don't run buses frequently enough or direct enough

I used to live less than 15kms from Monash and it took 20 minutes to drive there and 60 minutes to bus there

SRL would have made no difference to the first trip time

It may make a difference to the second trip time when it opens, no idea

the bigger issue with PT is things like people without cars needing to go to the shops or doctors or visit someone during the day

because bus services are so infrequent outside peak hour, or stop running entirely in many cases

SRL won't fix that either

 

[peetoo]

This is what CBDs are for.

Deakin and Box Hill TAFE are not the hubs of knowledge that US college campuses are.

It's still incredibly biased to one side of town. Fishermans Bend is supposed to be the future tech hub and it's a lot cheaper to connect (Metro 2) and far more central and also serves a network purpose.

Any argument about hubs along SRL is a less worthy argument than hubs along Metro 2. That's why the CBD is the CBD and nobody builds big central offices in Box Hill.

So how’s our CBD and radial network going to cope with double the population? It’s struggling now, and lockdowns prove its not essential after all

 

[Gralin]

So how’s our CBD and radial network going to cope with double the population? It’s struggling now, and lockdowns prove its not essential after all

We really need satellite cities like they try with Geelong and Ballarat except the jobs largely stayed in the CBD and it just meant more commuting

But we also need to think of PT as more than getting people to the city

More than just getting to work

It needs to be a viable alternative to driving for a lot more things and while i don't disagree that we need something like SRL linking the spokes its not a solution to most of those issues

 

[peetoo]

Canary Wharf is hardly a good example. It was a white elephant for years and still has the highest office vacancy rates. Many companies including major insurers were encouraged to relocate there but returned to the City (the true business district) at the earliest opportunity.

Also, in a city with a massive underground system, the rail line built to service Docklands was the cheapest option, an above ground line (which works well).

A city with a massive underground system? And a current metro population melbourne is expected to have in 30 years?

But we aren’t a good as London, we don’t deserve nice things, just build more and more kms of McMansion human misery

 

[peetoo]

We really need satellite cities like they try with Geelong and Ballarat except the jobs largely stayed in the CBD and it just meant more commuting

But we also need to think of PT as more than getting people to the city

More than just getting to work

It needs to be a viable alternative to driving for a lot more things and while i don't disagree that we need something like SRL linking the spokes its not a solution to most of those issues

Regional hubs which will also benefit from interconnections in the suburbs.

Maybe have both? Cant see how regional centres will do the heavy lifting, or they would have done so already

 

[Gralin]

Regional hubs which will also benefit from interconnections in the suburbs.

Maybe have both? Cant see how regional centres will do the heavy lifting, or they would have done so already

I'm saying I don't think this is a solution to the CBD problem

 

[Sttew]

A city with a massive underground system? And a current metro population melbourne is expected to have in 30 years?

But we aren’t a good as London, we don’t deserve nice things, just build more and more kms of McMansion human misery

You completely missed the point

 

[Sttew]

Jacinta being lauded for canning one of Dan's "babies", the injecting facility in the CBD (imagine sighting an injecting facility next door to a tourist attraction in Degraves Place).

What next? Will she pause SRL?

 

[Couch Coach]

Jacinta being lauded for canning one of Dan's "babies", the injecting facility in the CBD (imagine sighting an injecting facility next door to a tourist attraction in Degraves Place).

What next? Will she pause SRL?

Location didn't stop them from putting the first one near a Primary School.

The cancelling is not about location, it's about lack of money.

 

[The Punter]

All of peetoo's recent points are well taken, except for the fact that the first level has not been provided for the West yet. More metro trains for areas between Cheltenham and Box Hill before any for Deer Park. Makes perfect sense. <end sarcasm font>

Also, worth pointing out that one of the major points of difference during the 2018 state election was the LNP's plan was to decentralise, and the ALP's plan was to centralise. The LNP's policies were aimed at getting the population growth to be in regional cities and not in metropolitan Melbourne. Not surprisingly, a policy suite aimed at getting people moving out of Melbourne was not well received in Melbourne, where Victorian elections are won and lost.

 

[peetoo]

All of peetoo's recent points are well taken, except for the fact that the first level has not been provided for the West yet. More metro trains for areas between Cheltenham and Box Hill before any for Deer Park. Makes perfect sense. <end sarcasm font>

Also, worth pointing out that one of the major points of difference during the 2018 state election was the LNP's plan was to decentralise, and the ALP's plan was to centralise. The LNP's policies were aimed at getting the population growth to be in regional cities and not in metropolitan Melbourne. Not surprisingly, a policy suite aimed at getting people moving out of Melbourne was not well received in Melbourne, where Victorian elections are won and lost.

Suburban activity centres has been on the ALP wish list for longer. But it just wasn’t happening. The self interest of developers was working against it

Also while we can see the benefits of a radial connection, the devil is in the detail. Sometimes transport planning is like herding cats

 

[Gralin]

Jacinta being lauded for canning one of Dan's "babies", the injecting facility in the CBD (imagine sighting an injecting facility next door to a tourist attraction in Degraves Place).

What next? Will she pause SRL?

such a tourist attraction that I had to google it

safe injecting rooms are good things, there will always be a reason some location is no good though

but if they pick an area that is being used publicly anyway they can get them off the streets to do it which is better than the alternative

Who is lauding her for canning it?

 

[Sttew]

such a tourist attraction that I had to google it

We know you rarely step foot in the CBD, but don't show your sheer ignorance Gralin. Melbourne's laneways, led by Degraves Lane , are rated a top tourist attraction by the government's own tourist agency, by Lonely Planet, Time Out and a host of guides.

https://www.visitvictoria.com/regions/melbourne/destinations/streets/vv-degraves-street

Degraves Street

Connecting Flinders Lane and Flinders Street is Degraves Street, the slightly wider, slightly more Parisien extension of Centre Place. There’s less street art

www.timeout.com

"Degraves, as the street is colloquially known, is famous for its alfresco dining options and because it epitomises Melbourne's coffee culture and street art scene. For these reasons it has also become a popular tourist destination"

So I ask again, who in their right mind would sight an injection parlour next to a tourist attraction, unless the objective is to drive tourists away?

Who is lauding her for canning it?

Media and political commentators because she is finally demonstrating she is her own person

 

[Gralin]

We know you rarely step foot in the CBD, but don't show your sheer ignorance Gralin. Melbourne's laneways, led by Degraves Lane , are rated a top tourist attraction by the government's own tourist agency, by Lonely Planet, Time Out and a host of guides.

Mate I lived behind the Malthouse Theater for a few years and have had multiple jobs where I was in the city full time, I just don't give a s**t about laneway culture so its not something that is on my radar or what I think of when I think of a tourist attraction

https://www.visitvictoria.com/regions/melbourne/destinations/streets/vv-degraves-street

Degraves Street

Connecting Flinders Lane and Flinders Street is Degraves Street, the slightly wider, slightly more Parisien extension of Centre Place. There’s less street art

www.timeout.com

"Degraves, as the street is colloquially known, is famous for its alfresco dining options and because it epitomises Melbourne's coffee culture and street art scene. For these reasons it has also become a popular tourist destination"

So I ask again, who in their right mind would sight an injection parlour next to a tourist attraction, unless the objective is to drive tourists away?

like I said there's always an excuse for why any location chosen for one of these sites is the wrong location, plenty of drug use happens in that area already just out in the open

Media and political commentators because she is finally demonstrating she is her own person

What is the difference between media and political commentators?

She was part of the government that decided to setup the site in the first place, getting lauded for cutting money from services like this is crap

suggesting its proof she's her own person is just a wank also