Win Prizes Ask an Atheist II

[Gethelred]

Welcome to the Ask an Atheist thread II.

Previous part:

Win Prizes - Ask an Atheist - Shoe's on the other foot now!

Alright, we're going to have a change of tack. As I'm sure you can see, the thread title has been changed to Ask an Atheist. People who have a question to ask of the atheists who populate this thread - more than the christians do - should feel free to ask questions of them. If you've still got...

www.bigfooty.com

Standard board rules apply.

 

[Total Power]

It's not that complicated. Don't worry about the bible.

Do you think there might be a universal consciousness?

Yep, i do believe and have experiences,...kinda like NDE but through meditation. I felt one with literally everything. If there is a God, the consciousness is also a part of that God. Hence i oppose a personal theistic God.

 

[travelli]

Yep, i do believe and have experiences,...kinda like NDE but through meditation. I felt one with literally everything. If there is a God, the consciousness is also a part of that God. Hence i oppose a personal theistic God.

Fair enough.

Why make your claim on the atheist thread then?

 

[evolved2]

Why not try to deal with it in your life time?

It's OK. We die. What happens then? Don't try to pass it on to your kids.

It's not something I spend a lot of time thinking over and any thoughts of death have minimal impact on my way of life now.

What happens when we die? I presume that's it, lights out! The odds are astronomical against any of us being here, so this life is my lottery win. Death is a small price to pay for the beauty of living.

 

[Vdubs]

It really depends what you mean by an atheist. I have experience consciousness as separate from my body, through meditation, yes i can't prove it to you but you know what i mean. I do not believe in the religious deities, any of them. Are all man made mythological deities, which Constantine wanted. Those Gospels which weren't approved were all burnt, but those Gospels contain stuff that potrays Jesus as an enlightened preacher.

Wow, some admission. Born again Christians who have had personal conversion experiences- can't prove it to you, but they know...

 

[evolved2]

Yep, i do believe and have experiences,...kinda like NDE but through meditation. I felt one with literally everything. If there is a God, the consciousness is also a part of that God. Hence i oppose a personal theistic God.

I've met a few people who think astral projection is real, including someone who claims to have done it regularly. I think he viewed the Universe as god though I'm not sure what he meant by it.

 

[evolved2]

Wow, some admission. Born again Christians who have had personal conversion experiences- can't prove it to you, but they know...

Plenty of ex-Christians, myself included, had powerful conversion experiences. It doesn't make Christianity true.

 

[travelli]

Is atheism the default point of not believing in literal Christianity?

Could there be something in the grey?

 

[Vdubs]

Plenty of ex-Christians, myself included, had powerful conversion experiences. It doesn't make Christianity true.

Plenty maintain the faith and and have gratitude for their conversion- you prove that is not real

 

[Total Power]

I've met a few people who think astral projection is real, including someone who claims to have done it regularly. I think he viewed the Universe as god though I'm not sure what he meant by it.

I never tried astral projection but i have heard about it. There are more dimensions than what we can perceive. I think most scientists will agree with this. I also think manifestation of consciousness happens in the material world through our brain. I do not know beyond this. How i know this? Meditation. I mean it's science but it's subjective but science states (The harvard experiment), meditation gives you results that is unlikely any other. (Like slowing down metabolism upto 65%) and very unusual Beta/gamma waves. So something unusual is going on for sure.

 

[Total Power]

Fair enough.

Why make your claim on the atheist thread then?

Theism from oxford:

belief in the existence of a god or gods, specifically of a creator who intervenes in the universe


Atheism is lack of belief in theism.

I am exactly that. Although atheism or neo-atheism would suggest science only, this is simply not true. Atheists can be spiritual, just like Einstein was. Pantheism, buddhism, Jainism are all atheistic, but can you say they are not spiritual?

 

[evolved2]

Plenty maintain the faith and and have gratitude for their conversion- you prove that is not real

Maintaining a faith doesn't really prove anything. Plenty of Muslims maintain their faith too.

I recognised that Christianity is a lie and dropped my faith for that sole reason. No personal experience is powerful enough to make a lie become true.

 

[Vdubs]

Maintaining a faith doesn't really prove anything. Plenty of Muslims maintain their faith too.

I recognised that Christianity is a lie and dropped my faith for that sole reason. No personal experience is powerful enough to make a lie become true.

PM

 

[Total Power]

Maintaining a faith doesn't really prove anything. Plenty of Muslims maintain their faith too.

I recognised that Christianity is a lie and dropped my faith for that sole reason. No personal experience is powerful enough to make a lie become true.

I always wondered about this. "I felt Jesus in my life" is true as "I felt xxxxx god in my life" is true for every other religion. Why are those false and you are right? Millions of people claim this to be true in respect to their god/gods. But it's always my god which is the real deal.

 

[evolved2]

Is atheism the default point of not believing in literal Christianity?

Could there be something in the grey?

No. Why would it be? Plenty of people have other beliefs and philosophies other than atheism or fundamental Christianity.

My scientific mindset led me out of faith and eventually into atheism. Other ex-Christians find different paths and outcomes.

 

[travelli]

Theism from oxford:

belief in the existence of a god or gods, specifically of a creator who intervenes in the universe


Atheism is lack of belief in theism.

I am exactly that. Although atheism or neo-atheism would suggest science only, this is simply not true. Atheists can be spiritual, just like Einstein was. Pantheism, buddhism, Jainism are all atheistic, but can you say they are not spiritual?

So there is something out there, it just doesn't give a sht? Or it doesn't know itself? Are you comfortable that describes your atheism?

 

[evolved2]

I always wondered about this. "I felt Jesus in my life" is true as "I felt xxxxx god in my life" is true for every other religion. Why are those false and you are right? Millions of people claim this to be true in respect to their god/gods. But it's always my god which is the real deal.

It takes the ability to step outside yourself and evaluate your beliefs and experiences objectively to see that. Most believers never reach that point.

 

[Total Power]

So there is something out there, it just doesn't give a sht? Or it doesn't know itself? Are you comfortable that describes your atheism?

Non-intervening god is a thing in many ancient religions. I just think the universe itself is a manifestation of consciousness that is just. Nothing more to it, we are all a part of it, even science agrees we are stardust. I think we are consciousness (you can call this god), manifested in physical realm or 3 dimensional realm.

 

[travelli]

Non-intervening god is a thing in many ancient religions. I just think the universe itself is a manifestation of consciousness that is just. Nothing more to it, we are all a part of it, even science agrees we are stardust. I think we are consciousness (you can call this god), manifested in physical realm or 3 dimensional realm.

Is that an accurate description of atheism?

I would normally consider atheism as a closed book, you seem well open to possibilities

 

[Total Power]

Is that an accurate description of atheism?

I would normally consider atheism as a closed book, you seem well open to possibilities

It's not a deity, it's consciousness. Plenty of atheist scientists are working on it that believes in non-local consciousness. Roger Penrose is one of the brilliant scientists of our time, so is Freeman Dyson. (just an example).

Anyone will be ignorant not to be open to possibilities. Those who are "sure" of their belief, are not worth talking to. (whether they are religious or atheist)

This is why people who say "science deity" are ignorant. Science is a quest too, about the material world. It has it's place, spirituality is the quest for something bigger than material.

But the religious and militant atheists already have their answers.

So....

 

[travelli]

It's not a deity, it's consciousness. Plenty of atheist scientists are working on it that believes in non-local consciousness. Roger Penrose is one of the brilliant scientists of our time, so is Freeman Dyson. (just an example).

Anyone will be ignorant not to be open to possibilities. Those who are "sure" of their belief, are not worth talking to. (whether they are religious or atheist)

This is why people who say "science deity" are ignorant. Science is a quest too, about the material world. It has it's place, spirituality is the quest for something bigger than material.

But the religious and militant atheists already have their answers.

So....

What does the non local conscious mean? Does that mean there is a centre? A collective?

 

[Total Power]

What does the non local conscious mean? Does that mean there is a centre? A collective?

Well it is a perspective that consciousness is an innate property that exists throughout the universe. A loose analogy for this perspective is that consciousness is like a radiowave that exists everywhere. So if you build a radio then the radio will pick up that signal and play music.

The metaphorical radio is NOT "creating" the music from scratch, rather it is simply able to receive and play the raw music data that is already latently in space.If you extrapolate this metaphor and invent radios that are self-aware, the radios would most certainly believe that they themselves were generating the music that they were playing.

Everything is consciousness, in different levels of awareness with respect to itself, tuned to different frequencies to manifest within the spectrum. We, as self aware beings, conscious of our existence, vibrate at a higher frequency (compared to animals, who are at a lower frequency) within the spectrum or density, what we perceive as reality.

For me, meditation is all about testing this hypothesis. Unfortunately it's extremely difficult for most people to a point it's almost impossible. But even atheists like Sam Harris has experienced this and has written extensively about Eastern mythologies. Christianity also states the same when it says "The kingdom of god is inside you". Unfortunately organised religion have done grave injustice to the whole idea, which is what makes me an atheist.

 

[evolved2]

travelli

I was thinking about my support for Essendon and wondering if you have similar reasons for your faith.

I can see that Essendon are shite and their problems run deep with coterie groups and old dinosaurs (Sheedy for example) holding too much power, and a focus on winning at all costs rather than building the right culture leading to the club making poor choices over recent decades (not years, decades).

You said that you follow Christianity because it was the faith of your ancestors, yet we see politics in the creation of the bible, the church fighting science, systemic child abuse, opposition to equality, etc.

The church is more dysfunctional than just about any organisation I can think of, including the Bombers. That applies to the Catholic church and fundie churches, though I'm sure it applies equally to many other brands of Christianity.

I refuse to support another AFL club despite the flaws and losing culture at Tullamarine. If you recognise the flaws of your faith, why do you stay with Christianity?

 

[Engimal v3]

Is atheism the default point of not believing in literal Christianity?

Could there be something in the grey?

What do you mean? Atheism is the default position we're born into.

 

[travelli]

Well it is a perspective that consciousness is an innate property that exists throughout the universe. A loose analogy for this perspective is that consciousness is like a radiowave that exists everywhere. So if you build a radio then the radio will pick up that signal and play music.

The metaphorical radio is NOT "creating" the music from scratch, rather it is simply able to receive and play the raw music data that is already latently in space.If you extrapolate this metaphor and invent radios that are self-aware, the radios would most certainly believe that they themselves were generating the music that they were playing.

Everything is consciousness, in different levels of awareness with respect to itself, tuned to different frequencies to manifest within the spectrum. We, as self aware beings, conscious of our existence, vibrate at a higher frequency (compared to animals, who are at a lower frequency) within the spectrum or density, what we perceive as reality.

For me, meditation is all about testing this hypothesis. Unfortunately it's extremely difficult for most people to a point it's almost impossible. But even atheists like Sam Harris has experienced this and has written extensively about Eastern mythologies. Christianity also states the same when it says "The kingdom of god is inside you". Unfortunately organised religion have done grave injustice to the whole idea, which is what makes me an atheist.

Is your consciousness much different to the Christian concept of love?

I think it is close, but I like the idea that the God of Love is less individual, more giving. Less about the self, more about the sacrifices you make to bring everybody along with you.

 

[travelli]

What do you mean? Atheism is the default position we're born into.

I don't agree. Every culture comes up with a god to give purpose to existence. Why is that?