Play Nice 46th President of the United States: Joe Biden 2: Incidit in scyllam cupiens vitare charybdim

[spinynorman]

Most, if not all, of that relates to before he was president. So, we can both agree that it was inaccurate hyperbole to label "most aspects of his presidency ... several decades too late", no?

It relates to his character that makes him the wrong person for this time. He's someone who has built his career on making a virtue of moderation and bipartisanship. He ran for the primary in 2020 promising to be the candidate who could work with Republicans and reach across the aisle. He was elected at a time when the Republicans have been as recalcitrant and obstructionist as ever (as they have been since Clinton's second term). He has been unable to adapt to this reality and unable to have the polity adapt to the reality of his presidency. So no, he's several decades too late. In a time where things are getting further away from where they need to be, he's not been able to turn things around.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

It relates to his character that makes him the wrong person for this time. He's someone who has built his career on making a virtue of moderation and bipartisanship. He ran for the primary in 2020 promising to be the candidate who could work with Republicans and reach across the aisle. He was elected at a time when the Republicans have been as recalcitrant and obstructionist as ever (as they have been since Clinton's second term). He has been unable to adapt to this reality and unable to have the polity adapt to the reality of his presidency. So no, he's several decades too late. In a time where things are getting further away from where they need to be, he's not been able to turn things around.

Sure, I know what your gripes with him are, and I agree with most.

You just let your personal dislike of the guy get the better of you, resulting in volumes of posts that cast him in a negative light, and / or exaggeration of the negatives.

 

[jatz14]

It's not a great choice for Americans, I know of some who will vote for Biden purely to keep Trump out, which goes to show how low the bar is Democrats need to clear.

It's not a bar, it's a ditch.

A ditch filled with s**t.

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[Not Important]

yep! so far as aiding israeli terrorism is concerned, joe is no better than trump.

 

[bourbons]

They should probably flick him off as soon as possible. A decent candidate might get them over the line.

Don't even need a decent candidate, just an average one (and vice versa for Republicans). 'Generic democrat/republican' still leading both Trump and Biden in polling.

 

[spinynorman]

Eight years on and her messaging is still perfect and on point.

 

[Maggie5]

Eight years on and her messaging is still perfect and on point.

This is a tick for Biden right?

No big surprise. The surprise for me is that Biden has managed to make some progress.

The Trump Administration Rolled Back More Than 100 Environmental Rules. Here's the Full List. Over four years, the Trump administration dismantled major climate policies and rolled back many more rules governing clean air, water, wildlife and toxic chemicals

The Trump Administration Rolled Back More Than 100 Environmental Rules. Here’s the Full List. (Published 2021)

The Trump administration has dismantled nearly 100 policies focused on clean air, water, wildlife and toxic chemicals, and left more than a dozen rollbacks unfinished. Here’s how they add up.

www.nytimes.com

Examining some of Trump’s deregulation efforts: Lessons from the Brookings Regulatory Tracker | Brookings

Philip Wallach and Kelly Kennedy analyze a subset of important regulatory actions under the Trump administration to determine how successful the administration was in pursuing its deregulatory agenda.

www.brookings.edu

 

[GreyCrow]

Eight years on and her messaging is still perfect and on point.

Does this include Sleepy Dons fart emissions?

 

[Blue1980]

He's arguably, aside the lunatic Fetterman, the most stridently pro-Israel Democrat to be anywhere close to a level of seniority in the party (as Senator in the 1980s, he was critical of Reagan for not being adequately supportive of them). He's not the right person to be in charge with Israel committing mass murder.

His support of abortion rights, in a time of them being under the most severe attack in half a century, is nowhere near as ambitious as it needs to be. He's taken some steps, and I don't want to discount that, but it's nowhere near as much as public will could allow him to be, and paired with his lukewarm rhetoric and history of opposing it, speaks to him not being the champion needed right now.

He's opposed to free, universal healthcare at a time where it is overwhelmingly supported. In 2020, during the debates and the early stages of Covid, he pointed out Italy struggling with the pandemic and linked that to their universal health care. It's a setback to this being achieved that someone so opposed is President when support for it is so significant.

The Senator who wrote the Crimes Bill, advocated for severe penalties for people who go to and host raves in the 2000s sacked all his staffers who'd (stupidly) admitted to having smoked marijuana, despite it being legal in several states, is President at a time when drug decriminalisation and legality is further along than it's been in living memory.

He is a relic of the New Democrat neoliberals. It's not what's needed, it's not what's wanted. It's hard to imagine a once-defeated former President, one of the most unpopular in history and currently facing 91 felony charges, could have a fighting chance to win an election. There are complexities to it, but in light of the fact that Biden lags in polling behind Democrats in numerous key states' Senate races, it also speaks to what a woeful candidate Biden is (especially if one believes the defeat of Trump is as existentially important as most of us say it is). He's the wrong President for this time.

I largely agree, well pretty much agree with all of it. Part of me thinks the corporate Dems love the republicans lurch to the fascist right, as it means they can be very half assed in their attempts to do anything left leaning and if anyone complains shrug their shoulders and say “but Trump”.

Re Israel, he is about the worst Democrat aside from Fetterman to be president at the moment, as he has this weird ideological love of Israel, which maybe linked to the 11 million he’s received from Israel lobbies over the years.

Obama I’m sure still wouldn’t of been great on the issue (only so much you can do when Israel have bought and sold basically the entire congress), but he wouldn’t of been this weird cheerleader that Biden has been.

 

[Blue1980]

Most, if not all, of that relates to before he was president. So, we can both agree that it was inaccurate hyperbole to label "most aspects of his presidency ... several decades too late", no?

He’s taken 5 million in Israel donor money since being president, so not really past tense.

 

[spinynorman]

This is a tick for Biden right?

No big surprise. The surprise for me is that Biden has managed to make some progress.

The Trump Administration Rolled Back More Than 100 Environmental Rules. Here's the Full List. Over four years, the Trump administration dismantled major climate policies and rolled back many more rules governing clean air, water, wildlife and toxic chemicals

The Trump Administration Rolled Back More Than 100 Environmental Rules. Here’s the Full List. (Published 2021)

The Trump administration has dismantled nearly 100 policies focused on clean air, water, wildlife and toxic chemicals, and left more than a dozen rollbacks unfinished. Here’s how they add up.

www.nytimes.com

Examining some of Trump’s deregulation efforts: Lessons from the Brookings Regulatory Tracker | Brookings

Philip Wallach and Kelly Kennedy analyze a subset of important regulatory actions under the Trump administration to determine how successful the administration was in pursuing its deregulatory agenda.

www.brookings.edu

The fine print in the infographic even says that the "target" is actually Biden's target, which is well short of the target of "what we need to do in order for the world not to burn". Remember Net Zero by 2030?

Anyway, I don't think "vote for the man who is nowhere near the target ahead of the man who is further away from the target" is compelling. Hillary as a messenger - why even include the target on this graph? It's a ludicrous thing to put out.

Also, why is it a surprise that Biden can make some progress (well short of his target) but not surprising that Trump has the power for an extraordinary regression? The Republicans have enormous power to damage, but the Democrats such minimal power to advance.

 

[Maggie5]

The fine print in the infographic even says that the "target" is actually Biden's target, which is well short of the target of "what we need to do in order for the world not to burn". Remember Net Zero by 2030?

Anyway, I don't think "vote for the man who is nowhere near the target ahead of the man who is further away from the target" is compelling. Hillary as a messenger - why even include the target on this graph? It's a ludicrous thing to put out.

Also, why is it a surprise that Biden can make some progress (well short of his target) but not surprising that Trump has the power for an extraordinary regression? The Republicans have enormous power to damage, but the Democrats such minimal power to advance.

What? Did you not read the links?

Given the number reversed policies by Trump and a hostile House, Biden is at least trending down to the target.

I very much doubt any country will be anywhere near their targets, Australia included.

 

[Spearman]

He’s taken 5 million in Israel donor money since being president, so not really past tense.

Otherwise known as Tuesday in US politics.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

He’s taken 5 million in Israel donor money since being president, so not really past tense.

Without knowing the exact amount, I'm fully aware of the significant and continuing Israeli funding of US politicians. It's why Israel pretty much 100% controls US foreign policy as regards the Middle East. And has for a very long time. The practical effect is that Israel is in many ways a more powerful country than the US in terms of world affairs.

However, this is not related to the point spiny was originally making, to which I reacted.

 

[jatz14]

He’s taken 5 million in Israel donor money since being president, so not really past tense.

Biden did green light the Iranians to strike Israel, so there is that.

 

[Blue1980]

Biden did green light the Iranians to strike Israel, so there is that.

He did? Doesn’t stop him from pushing billions of dollars of Israel funding every month like it’s confetti.

 

[jatz14]

He did? Doesn’t stop him from pushing billions of dollars of Israel funding every month like it’s confetti.

Iran gave veiled warnings to the US prior to hitting Israel. The US response was along the lines of, Hey, leave us out of it, nothing to do with us.

One of the key issues Iran faced was, how hard to hit, and what would the US do.

In diplomat speak, that US response was about as clear a, we aren't going to do anything, as you can get. Effectively taking one of the impediments to Iran off the table. That they made that response, prior to Irans strike, rather than just keeping quiet, and leaving Iran to guess, is telling.

There is a train of thought that says the rather absurd decision of Israel to strike Iran's consulate, knowing it would force Iran to respond, was precisely for that. Get Iran to hit Israel, then escalate, drawing the US into the conflict.

The US message to Israel was, we aren't being drawn in, its your mess, you deal with it.

The money and weapons being sent to Israel is unfortunately a domestic political and geopolitical necessity, from the US perspective.

So, if you think that

A. Bidens personal opinion about Israel has almost any bearing on this, or
B. Some theoretical other US president in this situation would do something substantively different.

Then you wrong.

There is plenty of evidence that the US and Biden are not at all happy with Netanyahu, and while you seem to think Biden is giving them unconditional support, Netanyahu's comments indicate he certainly doesn't think that. That this unhappiness doesn't extend to cutting off weapons and money is an unfortunate reality, and Biden being president has little to do with it.

The argument then, that Israel is a reason for people to not vote Biden over Trump, is to me, absurd. Are they supposed to vote for Trump, who would support Israel, or just not vote, to punish one guy for supporting Israel, and handing power to another guy, who will support Israel?

If basing your vote on the plight of the Palestinians, doesn't help them at all, but potentially hecks up other things, then maybe you should base your vote on those things instead? Just a thought.

 

[LuvtheKangas]

The argument then, that Israel is a reason for people to not vote Biden over Trump, is to me, absurd. Are they supposed to vote for Trump, who would support Israel, or just not vote, to punish one guy for supporting Israel, and handing power to another guy, who will support Israel?

If basing your vote on the plight of the Palestinians, doesn't help them at all, but potentially *s up other things, then maybe you should base your vote on those things instead? Just a thought.

Great post, and very salient final point in relation to the many posts suggesting reasons not to vote for Biden, whilst conceding (often begrudgingly) that that other guy in the two-horse race is worse on nearly every issue.

 

[bourbons]

There is a train of thought that says the rather absurd decision of Israel to strike Iran's consulate, knowing it would force Iran to respond, was precisely for that. Get Iran to hit Israel, then escalate, drawing the US into the conflict.

Thats exactly what is was imo. Widening of the conflict and getting the US heavily and directly involved is Bibi's dream scenario.

 

[Blue1980]

Iran gave veiled warnings to the US prior to hitting Israel. The US response was along the lines of, Hey, leave us out of it, nothing to do with us.

One of the key issues Iran faced was, how hard to hit, and what would the US do.

In diplomat speak, that US response was about as clear a, we aren't going to do anything, as you can get. Effectively taking one of the impediments to Iran off the table. That they made that response, prior to Irans strike, rather than just keeping quiet, and leaving Iran to guess, is telling.

There is a train of thought that says the rather absurd decision of Israel to strike Iran's consulate, knowing it would force Iran to respond, was precisely for that. Get Iran to hit Israel, then escalate, drawing the US into the conflict.

The US message to Israel was, we aren't being drawn in, its your mess, you deal with it.

The money and weapons being sent to Israel is unfortunately a domestic political and geopolitical necessity, from the US perspective.

So, if you think that

A. Bidens personal opinion about Israel has almost any bearing on this, or
B. Some theoretical other US president in this situation would do something substantively different.

Then you wrong.

There is plenty of evidence that the US and Biden are not at all happy with Netanyahu, and while you seem to think Biden is giving them unconditional support, Netanyahu's comments indicate he certainly doesn't think that. That this unhappiness doesn't extend to cutting off weapons and money is an unfortunate reality, and Biden being president has little to do with it.

The argument then, that Israel is a reason for people to not vote Biden over Trump, is to me, absurd. Are they supposed to vote for Trump, who would support Israel, or just not vote, to punish one guy for supporting Israel, and handing power to another guy, who will support Israel?

If basing your vote on the plight of the Palestinians, doesn't help them at all, but potentially *s up other things, then maybe you should base your vote on those things instead? Just a thought.

I’d still vote for Biden as much as I don’t like what he and the US are doing, just trying to give perspective as to why people wouldn’t.

It doesn’t mean people who’d vote Biden would vote trump because of it, it just might mean they don’t vote at all thinking both sides are terrible.

Any other president be much different? I’m not sure Obama would have kept signing off the cheques to Israel quite as easily, but you’re sadly probably correct.

The US system is so broken with basically legalised bribes from donors and the Israel lobby has them by the balls because of it.

 

[jatz14]

I’d still vote for Biden as much as I don’t like what he and the US are doing, just trying to give perspective as to why people wouldn’t.

It doesn’t mean people who’d vote Biden would vote trump because of it, it just might mean they don’t vote at all thinking both sides are terrible.

Any other president be much different? I’m not sure Obama would have kept signing off the cheques to Israel quite as easily, but you’re sadly probably correct.

The US system is so broken with basically legalised bribes from donors and the Israel lobby has them by the balls because of it.

I agree it's s**t, and I think most Americans know this.
In polls, Biden loses to generic Dem nominee, and Trump loses to generic GOP nominee.

But Trump and Biden is what they have.

And being disillusioned with the process and not taking part, because you don't like either outcome, is still taking part in the process. And it still affects the outcome.

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[jatz14]

Interesting story circulating that the US is looking at sanctioning a specific Israel military unit.

It would be done under a policy that allows for actions against specific military units engaged in criminal activity, that are operating unchecked.

So, Israel knows this unit is committing crimes, and isn't doing anything.

That they are even talking about this is huge.

This is another of those signals from the US to Israel letting them know how unhappy they are.

And it still will not lead to cutting aid.

But it does draw a line in the sand, and indicates there are limits to what the US will tolerate.

So, I still don't see the US cutting them off, but I can see them doing things like abstaining in adverse UN Israel resolutions, putting more strings on the aid etc.

And ps. I think the idea of having a military unit to commit war crimes would really appeal to Trump. He would see it as decisive strong man action, a thing he admires.

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[Blue1980]

Interesting story circulating that the US is looking at sanctioning a specific Israel military unit.

It would be done under a policy that allows for actions against specific military units engaged in criminal activity, that are operating unchecked.

So, Israel knows this unit is committing crimes, and isn't doing anything.

That they are even talking about this is huge.

This is another of those signals from the US to Israel letting them know how unhappy they are.

And it still will not lead to cutting aid.

But it does draw a line in the sand, and indicates there are limits to what the US will tolerate.

So, I still don't see the US cutting them off, but I can see them doing things like abstaining in adverse UN Israel resolutions, putting more strings on the aid etc.

And ps. I think the idea of having a military unit to commit war crimes would really appeal to Trump. He would see it as decisive strong man action, a thing he admires.

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What would lead the US cutting off aid to Israel? Short of Israel letting off nukes?

 

[Crow54]

Poor old Sleepy Joe. Must be drugged up again, to show his sense of humour is still working.

 

[jatz14]

What would lead the US cutting off aid to Israel? Short of Israel letting off nukes?

Letting off nukes is the reason they will not cut off aid.

When things were going bad in the 1973 war, Israel made it clear it was going to use nukes rather than go down.

So the US intervened.

If things go bad for Israel, they WILL use nukes.

Still want the US to cut military aid?

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