AFL Player #37: Nic Martin

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Call Me Cake said:
Bombers, the team that robs Peter to pay Paul.
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So you are saying we would be 4-1 if he played on the wing ?

Even if it doesn’t work long term it is worth doing . At the bare minimum he gets marginally better with his defensive running .
Not like it is make or break this year .
 

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mcgrath_truther said:
reckon this was his best game of the season, looked really comfortable in the role last night.

retrospectively i don’t know why he wasn’t picked up at 18, he’s such a solid player
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I think it was perceived lack of competitiveness and he slipped through the net. Guy I know played with him and reckons he was good but not this good so blossomed a bit later - vagaries of recruiting. Saying that surely always had that kicking skill I think on that level is a natural gift.
 
Usual quality with ball in hand but this was his most defensively sound game this year too. Worth persisting with down back.
Watching whitfield earlier today and was thinking martin could definitely become our version of him.
 

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JayJ20 said:
This may be an unpopular opinion, but I still don't like the change to HB. What will it take to move him back onto the wing? His kciking hasn't been good enough to warrant the change.

I prefer 2023 Martin far more than 2024 Martin. Maybe when Ridley comes back?
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I'm with you. Agree that he is getting better week by week at that defensive role but I don't think it is his best footy nor position. Last two weeks (according to heat map) he has played more forward/higher on the ground so perhaps the adjustment has been made.

What made him lethal last year was the disposal inside 50.. martin was a big reason why Langford suddenly looked like a forward.. for me it is not a surprise that langford has looked 'human' this year without martin hitting him up. One of the few blokes who can actually read a leading target. I also think that Redman has lost his role and that is why he is well down on last years form.

I'm not opposed to trying things and it isn't an epic disaster or whatever.. but for me.. I'd move Martin back to the wing and let Redman be that HB distributor.
 
outersanctum said:
I'm with you. Agree that he is getting better week by week at that defensive role but I don't think it is his best footy nor position. Last two weeks (according to heat map) he has played more forward/higher on the ground so perhaps the adjustment has been made.

What made him lethal last year was the disposal inside 50.. martin was a big reason why Langford suddenly looked like a forward.. for me it is not a surprise that langford has looked 'human' this year without martin hitting him up. One of the few blokes who can actually read a leading target. I also think that Redman has lost his role and that is why he is well down on last years form.

I'm not opposed to trying things and it isn't an epic disaster or whatever.. but for me.. I'd move Martin back to the wing and let Redman be that HB distributor.
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Exactly. He was on track to be one of the best wingman in the game. He's nowhere near the best HB. I have high hopes for Martin so I think he should go back to what he was doing last year.
 
JayJ20 said:
Exactly. He was on track to be one of the best wingman in the game. He's nowhere near the best HB. I have high hopes for Martin so I think he should go back to what he was doing last year.
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Precisely.. but I suppose I was always confused as why you would take any player that is literally in the top 3 in any position in the comp and then give them a new role.. didn't make sense over offseason and is making even less sense watching it live.

I suspect it was our way of 'follow the leader' and finding out 'Daicos' role.. but truly great teams don't copy.. they innovate. The key to an exceptional coach is finding the strategy that works best that compliments the team they have. For years Richmond tried a succession of dud 'tall forwards' thinking they had to have a foil for Jack.. when Hardwick finally just changed the gameplan to be a small forward/manic pressure game.. they found their edge. Geelong invented the 'play 20 midfielders' style to great effect.. couple of book ends and then a fleet of runners that were interchangeable. Sydney tried a 'premium and rookie' strategy and then found greater success with re-treads. All three of those teams have had to find new identities as the make up of their lists change.

Anyway.. it will be what it will be but I'd love to see Martin back on the wing and back in the coaches votes and AA discussions.
 
If I have to watch my boy taking the kick ins for much longer I'm going to spew up.
 
FWIW Martin is averaging more inside 50s now than he was in the last two seasons (3.5 vs 2.7 last year). He's also averaging more metres gained (590 vs 334) and is leading the AFL there.

This is despite still having a lot of turnovers so there's even more upside in his game if he can iron those out.

A lot of teams have a really damaging player off half-back that can open the game up, and have used them to good effect.

Brisbane had Daniel Rich for years then had Coleman take a PF apart off half-back and very nearly do it again in the GF. They've now moved Zorko back there to do it.
Collingwood have moved Daicos back to half-back after struggling for drive out of the back half.
Geelong have Tom Stewart, Freo has Luke Ryan, Kangaroos use Sheezel, Swans use Blakey so on and so on.

Essendon has spent years struggling to escape the high-press once we're in the back half and desperately needed some line breaking users - especially with Ridley out.

Martin may not be playing the best role for him personally right now, but it's probably the one the team needs him, in at least until we've got Ridley back.
 
owen87 said:
FWIW Martin is averaging more inside 50s now than he was in the last two seasons (3.5 vs 2.7 last year). He's also averaging more metres gained (590 vs 334) and is leading the AFL there.

This is despite still having a lot of turnovers so there's even more upside in his game if he can iron those out.

A lot of teams have a really damaging player off half-back that can open the game up, and have used them to good effect.

Brisbane had Daniel Rich for years then had Coleman take a PF apart off half-back and very nearly do it again in the GF. They've now moved Zorko back there to do it.
Collingwood have moved Daicos back to half-back after struggling for drive out of the back half.
Geelong have Tom Stewart, Freo has Luke Ryan, Kangaroos use Sheezel, Swans use Blakey so on and so on.

Essendon has spent years struggling to escape the high-press once we're in the back half and desperately needed some line breaking users - especially with Ridley out.

Martin may not be playing the best role for him personally right now, but it's probably the one the team needs him, in at least until we've got Ridley back.
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Excellent post.. but I thought they had started grooming Redman for that role? I think he was getting similar metres gained last year?

Or even our form #1 pick.. Andy McGrath??
 
owen87 said:
FWIW Martin is averaging more inside 50s now than he was in the last two seasons (3.5 vs 2.7 last year). He's also averaging more metres gained (590 vs 334) and is leading the AFL there.

This is despite still having a lot of turnovers so there's even more upside in his game if he can iron those out.

A lot of teams have a really damaging player off half-back that can open the game up, and have used them to good effect.

Brisbane had Daniel Rich for years then had Coleman take a PF apart off half-back and very nearly do it again in the GF. They've now moved Zorko back there to do it.
Collingwood have moved Daicos back to half-back after struggling for drive out of the back half.
Geelong have Tom Stewart, Freo has Luke Ryan, Kangaroos use Sheezel, Swans use Blakey so on and so on.

Essendon has spent years struggling to escape the high-press once we're in the back half and desperately needed some line breaking users - especially with Ridley out.

Martin may not be playing the best role for him personally right now, but it's probably the one the team needs him, in at least until we've got Ridley back.
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Since saad and mckenna left this is the best we've looked coming out of the backline...and its still a work in progress. I would put that down to martin and mcgrath. Im excited to see how it goes with ridley in mix too.

Im really happy with redman switching to a more defensive role too, he looks exciting coming out of backline but i feel like he is one of the guys whos game really gets impacted by high forward pressure teams.

Even david king was giving our backline structure props aftet the last 2 weeks, feels like the switch of redman to a secondary sweeper role to assist mckay allows us to be more aggressive with forward pressure with martin and mcgrath being the primary distributors.
 
outersanctum said:
Excellent post.. but I thought they had started grooming Redman for that role? I think he was getting similar metres gained last year?

Or even our form #1 pick.. Andy McGrath??
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More outlets is better; Saad and McKenna worked really well because it was hard to stop them both.

Redman, Martin, Ridley and McGrath (plus Reid is pretty handy) are all good users by foot and if the R1 team is anything to go by it seems our planned defensive setup was;

McKay, Reid, Ridley, Redman, Martin, McGrath with Kelly working defensively to cover Martin running offensively from half-back.
 
joey_jo_jo said:
Since saad and mckenna left this is the best we've looked coming out of the backline...and its still a work in progress. I would put that down to martin and mcgrath. Im excited to see how it goes with ridley in mix too.

Im really happy with redman switching to a more defensive role too, he looks exciting coming out of backline but i feel like he is one of the guys whos game really gets impacted by high forward pressure teams.

Even david king was giving our backline structure props aftet the last 2 weeks, feels like the switch of redman to a secondary sweeper role to assist mckay allows us to be more aggressive with forward pressure with martin and mcgrath being the primary distributors.
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Like most media.. they base things week to week. We had a very good win against the Dogs.. clearly our best win of the season.. but dogs have been struggling with form and it was in the midfield where that game was won.. not off half back. Yes we beat the crows but they are 1-5.. with only a very streaky win against FC to boot. So let us not think we have unlocked the keys to a premiership just yet. In both tests against in form, contested, high pressure teams we have looked very very ordinary. Downright putrid.

So I am super keen for Thursday.. because a) hope we win and b) I am keen to see how we measure up against the top teams. What do our structures look like under pressure against the best. That is how we will be able to see if our "re-jigged" defence has actually improved since Port.
 
outersanctum said:
Like most media.. they base things week to week. We had a very good win against the Dogs.. clearly our best win of the season.. but dogs have been struggling with form and it was in the midfield where that game was won.. not off half back. Yes we beat the crows but they are 1-5.. with only a very streaky win against FC to boot. So let us not think we have unlocked the keys to a premiership just yet. In both tests against in form, contested, high pressure teams we have looked very very ordinary. Downright putrid.

So I am super keen for Thursday.. because a) hope we win and b) I am keen to see how we measure up against the top teams. What do our structures look like under pressure against the best. That is how we will be able to see if our "re-jigged" defence has actually improved since Port.
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Agree that pies will be the best test of our defensive set up but you can only go by who you play and dogs/crows may not be the best at transition but they arent slouches either.
Our backline structure was woeful against swans/hawks and for a half against Saints before the forward pressure game started to gel in 2nd half. THe port game is hard to read because we couldn't really get our pressure game going as port beat us at centre clearances and completely stifled our transition from backline, im hoping that was a good learning experience.
I was worried we would continue to get opened up on transition till ridley returned with how aggressive our forward press is and how much we turnover the ball but it does seem like the last two weeks Redman and Mckay are way more organised in the sweeper type roles and Martin/McGrath and co are starting to clean up their disposal too. Hope it continues on Thursday!
 
Metres gained will be a result of the fact he now has more field in front of him rather than any visible improvements.

Still watched him jog multiple times defensively Friday behind his opponents. Infuriating.
 
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