List Mgmt. 2024 List Management 📃

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I've always wondered if certain type of recruiters are better for different stages.

Austin seems comfortable picking later in the draft and or adding decent value in rookie/SSP/mid season drafts

I guess we need more time to judge the level of success

If Austin is good in that area, what's left? Early draft picks?

It's an interesting thought, but yet to be tested. He's had Hollands at 11 and traded out other early picks.

But it is possible that someone like Austin can find AFL qualities late, but may not be able to pick superstar qualities early.

Would he have picked Cripps at #13? A massive growth spurt for a slower inside midfielder. There were clues in his highlights videos but they really didn't show anything more than him being a clearance king. It didn't show leadership, didn't show decision making. He didn't speak very well. Was that Rogers, Hughes or both? SOS and Austin may look for different things so we may have missed him.

 

[Arr0w]

If Austin is good in that area, what's left? Early draft picks?

It's an interesting thought, but yet to be tested. He's had Hollands at 11 and traded out other early picks.

But it is possible that someone like Austin can find AFL qualities late, but may not be able to pick superstar qualities early.

Would he have picked Cripps at #13? A massive growth spurt for a slower inside midfielder. There were clues in his highlights videos but they really didn't show anything more than him being a clearance king. It didn't show leadership, didn't show decision making. He didn't speak very well. Was that Rogers, Hughes or both? SOS and Austin may look for different things so we may have missed him.

If I was rating Austin and SOS, I sense Austin is drawn to players with a higher floor, more bust proof, where as SOS may have been drawn to a higher ceiling

Or perhaps, they are similar and their recruiting changes depending on the phase of the list

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

If I was rating Austin and SOS, I sense Austin is drawn to players with a higher floor, more bust proof, where as SOS may have been drawn to a higher ceiling

Or perhaps, they are similar and their recruiting changes depending on the phase of the list

Austin's method works better for where we are currently with this coach and this game plan. Role players are like gold in this team.

 

[Arr0w]

Austin's method works better for where we are currently with this coach and this game plan. Role players are like gold in this team.

I do prefer the high floor player at this stage of our list

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I do prefer the high floor player at this stage of our list

It suits next man in.

Having said that Ashton Moir is a high ceiling selection, as was Harry Lemmey.

 

[Arr0w]

It suits next man in.

Having said that Ashton Moir is a high ceiling selection, as was Harry Lemmey.

They certainly have xfactor, but given where they were taken, could be massive bang for buck selections

 

[JustOneTime]

Austin is getting his job done quite well. I'd love to know what he would have done in SoS's 2015 draft. There were some different ways to go with the talls in that draft.

Now that Hughes is not a Carlton employee anymore and doesnt need the Carlton blind defence, can we all agree that he was average - poor; maybe horrific?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

They certainly have xfactor, but given where they were taken, could be massive bang for buck selections

Moneyball for sure. But I think we are aware they could be complete busts as well. Both has drop off's in their draft yeah, that scared other teams away.

Whether they thought they couldn't play with injury, didn't have the work ethic or simply didn't want it bad enough, I don't know. This to me is high ceiling, low floor.

 

[Aphrodite]

Austin is getting his job done quite well. I'd love to know what he would have done in SoS's 2015 draft. There were some different ways to go with the talls in that draft.

Now that Hughes is not a Carlton employee anymore and doesnt need the Carlton blind defence, can we all agree that he was average - poor; maybe horrific?

Hughes has been gone for 10yrs!

 

[JustOneTime]

Hughes has been gone for 10yrs!

True but some of us are still scarred by that period of time making us desperate for success with this new guy Austin who by the way is doing a good job.

But your point is accurate and I thank you for your input on my post.

 

[Aphrodite]

True but some of us are still scarred by that period of time making us desperate for success with this new guy Austin who by the way is doing a good job.

But your point is accurate and I thank you for your input on my post.

That was then.

We are in the now.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Hughes has been gone for 10yrs!

Probably the point. Enough time has passed to be able to speak more candidly.

Although, Hughes circumstances were vastly different to SOS and Austin. That would require a fair bit of drafting analysis and more talk about why we did things or didn't do things.

 

[Foucault1989]

Austin is getting his job done quite well. I'd love to know what he would have done in SoS's 2015 draft. There were some different ways to go with the talls in that draft.

Now that Hughes is not a Carlton employee anymore and doesnt need the Carlton blind defence, can we all agree that he was average - poor; maybe horrific?

Absolutely dreadful. So was Shane Rogers.

 

[BlueJet]

I've been reading a book on George Steinbrenner (former Yankees owner) & all of the chaos his meddling caused behind the scenes - you can imagine the Pratts, Mathiesons (& their proxies), would have been throwing their weight around in a similar manner.
Fortunately we've moved beyond those days. SOS & now Austin, appear to have now got us on the right track.
I'd still like another developing KPD though!

 

[I bleed Blue]

Absolutely dreadful. So was Shane Rogers.

Horrendous both of them.

 

[Opium]

Austin is getting his job done quite well. I'd love to know what he would have done in SoS's 2015 draft. There were some different ways to go with the talls in that draft.

Now that Hughes is not a Carlton employee anymore and doesnt need the Carlton blind defence, can we all agree that he was average - poor; maybe horrific?

Outside of 2015 I don't think SOS recruited well at all.

 

[katmanblue]

Hughes has been gone for 10yrs!

His legacy is seared into my soul

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[The Old Dark Navy's]

Outside of 2015 I don't think SOS recruited well at all.

The sum of all the parts. I'm glad he didn't bow to outside noises and drafted Walsh instead of Rankine or Lukosius who scribes were arguing for.

Of our current list SOS is responsible for Weitering, McKay, Curnow, McGovern, Martin, Owies, Marchbank, Kennedy, De Koning, Kemp, Cuningham, Silvagni, Cottrell, Pittonet and Newman.

That's a fair chunk of a flag side if we go on to win it this year.

 

[sweethoney]

Outside of 2015 I don't think SOS recruited well at all.

I think he only got 2015 so right was because that was jacks draft. He would’ve been watching it closely for years

 

[Stamos]

The sum of all the parts. I'm glad he didn't bow to outside noises and drafted Walsh instead of Rankine or Lukosius who scribes were arguing for.

Of our current list SOS is responsible for Weitering, McKay, Curnow, McGovern, Martin, Fogarty, Owies, Marchbank, Kennedy, De Koning, Kemp, Cuningham, Silvagni, Cottrell, Pittonet and Newman.

That's a fair chunk of a flag side if we go on to win it this year.

Austin got Fogarty, but correct on the rest

 

[branedotorg]

Of our current list SOS is responsible for Weitering, McKay, Curnow, McGovern, Martin, Fogarty, Owies, Marchbank, Kennedy, De Koning, Kemp, Cuningham, Silvagni, Cottrell, Pittonet and Newman.

That's a fair chunk of a flag side if we go on to win it this year.

Kemp is ok but that 2019 draft, we could have had kosi Pickett, will day, Sam de Konig instead of the Kemp + Philp combo.

Likewise McGovern at his best is great but has he been good value for 26+28 (pick 13)? March bank not a win, Martin a just pass - not on talent but on availablity.

Newman TDK and Cottrell the clear wins in that list imo, given cost and games played.

 

[gbatman]

I've always wondered if certain type of recruiters are better for different stages.

Austin seems comfortable picking later in the draft and or adding decent value in rookie/SSP/mid season drafts

I guess we need more time to judge the level of success

It also has a lot to do where the club is at. Players taken later in the draft are taken later for a reason. Usually it's because they are less talented, less developed, less professional, less driven etc. There's something lacking there.

There are players on our list and in our best 22 who are good players in our team because we are a strong professional club with a strong team and a strong culture and development program. Those same players would be no good at a club like North for example or at Carlton Circa 2014-2021. Guys like Fogarty and Cottrell for example would be in and out the door. Don't get developed and trained properly and find it difficult to play well in a crap side. But in a good side they bring a lot of value and are utilised because of the players around them and are playing at their best ability due to good development.

We have brought in a lot of players who struggled as forwards because the team was crap. Struggled in general because there was no high performance program for a long time or our development program was crap.

I think your club becomes a revolving door for players when it's no good but when you are where we are now you can polish up most. So it's not all good recruiting. There is an element of being a good club there as well.

Austin has that at hand. Silvagni mostly didn't.

Austin is recruiting players to a club that has a strong high performance program, strong leadership, a strong coach and a no-nonsense playing program. We have also invested in heavily in development. The players SOS recruited came to a club that had none of that. It was only the naturally talented and driven players who turned out.

I think in the past as a recruiter at this club, most of them probably had confidence in most of the players they recruited but they probably questioned what the club would turn them out as. At the moment Austin is probably confident that the club will turn out the players and they will become what he has envisioned them being.

It's very very easy for a player to go either way and they will go the wrong way at a poor club very quickly and they rarely come back from that.

The recruiting team has a lot to do with it but I think the club has just as much. This is definitely the case with later picks. A poor club will fail with their later picks every time, because they are the players who need to go to a good club to make it.

I think there are a lot of players we picked up during the Silvagni period who went the wrong way when they got here. We didn't have a high performance team, it was Barker doing it part time. We didn't have a development program, Cook set that up and we were a really crap team being lead by kids.

I'm not sure recruiting has improved a hell of a lot but what has definitely improved is the development, professionalism, leadership and the quality of the team to play in.

Some of these sort of players, late picks, they need to walk into a club that is already good in these departments. What they learn in their first season or two and the habits they develop over these seasons are set in stone and for many, that can rarely be changed. This was part of why Malthouse coming to Carlton failed so badly. This is why it's taken Voss and Russell so long to achieve what they have been pushing towards. This is why a lot of the players we bring in show so much now. It's hard to get things right and turn it around and for some it's not possible. SPS, Sumner, Pickett, Smith, Garlett and O'Dwyer. It would be interesting to see what they would turn out as if they came to us fresh faced now and not they way they did when they did.

First two seasons, we imprint how to train, how to play, how to be an AFL player and how to play hard footy. Let our development team work on them with how they play and position etc which we didn't have. Let our high performance teams get the fit, teach them to manage themselves, which we didn't have and I bet they all make it or get pretty close. Talent is there, the rest wasn't and this is how players can go either way.

I think now we have more players going the right way than we have had over the last 25 years. Yes our recruiting looks pretty solid but the rest is there now as well which has not always been the case and that makes our recruiting look good.

 

[katmanblue]

It also has a lot to do where the club is at. Players taken later in the draft are taken later for a reason. Usually it's because they are less talented, less developed, less professional, less driven etc. There's something lacking there.

There are players on our list and in our best 22 who are good players in our team because we are a strong professional club with a strong team and a strong culture and development program. Those same players would be no good at a club like North for example or at Carlton Circa 2014-2021. Guys like Fogarty and Cottrell for example would be in and out the door. Don't get developed and trained properly and find it difficult to play well in a crap side. But in a good side they bring a lot of value and are utilised because of the players around them and are playing at their best ability due to good development.

We have brought in a lot of players who struggled as forward because the team was crap. Struggled in general because there was no high performance program for a long time or our development program was crap.

I think your club becomes a revolving door for players when it's no good but when you are where we are now you can polish up most. So it's not all good recruiting. There is an element of being a good club there as well.

Austin has that at hand. Silvagni mostly didn't.

I think in the past as a recruiter at this club, most of them probably had confidence in most of the players they recruited but they probably questioned what the club would turn them out as. At the moment Austin is probably confident that the club will turn out the players and they will become what he has envisioned them being.

It's very very easy for a player to go either way and they will go the wrong way at a poor club very quickly and they rarely come back from that.

The recruiting team has a lot to do with it but I think the club has just as much. This is definitely the case with later picks. A poor club will fail with their later picks every time, because they are the players who need to go to a good club to make it.

I think there are a lot of players we picked up during the Silvagni period who went the wrong way when they got here. We didn't have a high performance team, it was Barker doing it part time. We didn't have a development program, Cook set that up and we were a really crap team being lead by kids.

I'm not sure recruiting has improved a hell of a lot but what has definitely improved is the development, professionalism, leadership and the quality of the team to play in.

Some of these sort of players, late picks, they need to walk into a club that is already good in these departments. What they learn in their first season or two and the habits they develop over these seasons are set in stone and for many, that can rarely be changed. This was part of why Malthouse coming to Carlton failed so badly. This is why it's taken Voss and Russell so long to achieve what they have been pushing towards. This is why a lot of the players we bring in show so much now. It's hard to get things right and turn it around and for some it's not possible. SPS, Sumner, Pickett, Smith, Garlett and O'Dwyer. It would be interesting to see what they would turn out as if they came to us fresh faced now and not they way they did when they did.

First two seasons, we imprint how to train, how to play, how to be an AFL player and how to play hard footy. Let our development team work on them with how they play and position etc which we didn't have. Let our high performance teams get the fit, teach them to manage themselves, which we didn't have and I bet they all make it or get pretty close. Talent is there, the rest wasn't and this is how players can go either way.

I think now we have more players going the right way than we have had over the last 25 years. Yes our recruiting looks pretty solid but the rest is there now as well which has not always been the case and that makes our recruiting look good.

I remember a story about an executive coming in (maybe Cook?) and being shocked at how little of the soft cap we were spending on the football department.

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[Blue and Silver]

They certainly have xfactor, but given where they were taken, could be massive bang for buck selections

Taking high ceiling guys in the mid-late 2nd round is fine.

I would worry about it more if it was a top 10 pick.

Sustained success for us from here is going to come from bringing in guys who can be brought up to speed on our system quickly and be ready to play a role.

Drafting for guys who learn fast and have the physical attributes to play a role at AFL level would be my criteria. Also not going to be put out by being a lesser light for a while


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[gbatman]

I remember a story about an executive coming in (maybe Cook?) and being shocked at how little of the soft cap we were spending on the football department.

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Our focus has been on the coach and nothing else for our entire existence when it comes to the football department. When the game begun to become more professional in the 90s we got left in the dust and remained there until a couple of years ago.

We have a long list of failed coaches and players due to this. A long long period of failure and mediocracy.

It's amazing how when you finally go from not having people who know how to run a footy club to having someone who is elite in this area, how quickly things change and then begin to improve.

Very happy where the club is off the field for the first time in many decades.