VFL 2021 Sandringham Zebras

[gringo2011]

Hope this is a joke, Dunstan has bern in the system 8 years and over a 100 games. Bytel gets thrown in as a medical sub after a handful of games.
Dunstan was more vanilla than Billings on the weekend was totally ineffectual.

Why do we want to sacrifice our young talent to keep giving games to someone who wont be there next year. Play the kids FFS, not players who have failed us time and again.
Embracing mediocrity maybe?

Should play Alabakis over Paddy too I guess. If vanilla was a crime at St Kilda we wouldn't field a side.

 

[gringo2011]

Wasn't a melt. Maybe go and see Bytel play.

He won't get experience languishing in the two's. Byrnes and Connelly get multiple games while Bytel is killing it in the two's but doesn't get a look in while our mids get flogged.
Dunstan looked great in the two's and deserved his recall and went well for a few games.
WCE found us out easily because Dunstan can't spread. Carlton did the same.

Dunstan is the past, Bytel needs some games for experience, but the coach likes to sacrifice some of our prospects like he has done for Battle

I wanted Bytel to play too but he's better building confidence in the VFL, he's not able to play anything but inside mid and he's not getting it done in the seniors. Having him warm the bench will do more harm than good IMO. Get him in the VFL demanding a spot then push out the worst performing mid.

 

[pebblesofsand]

You'd play Dunstan because he didn't have a bad game. What message would that send. Crouch has had 2 poor weeks he'd surely go out first. I guess that's one way to get rid of Dunstan though.

No way I'm dropping him.

Since they admitted their mistake and decided he can actually play, he's averaged 27 possessions a game.

In the meantime Bytel can do some hard yards at Sandy.

Character building - will do him no harm if he's a genuine footballer.

 

[aussierulesrules]

As if Dunstan’s getting dropped!

Finding a tonne of the ball in the VFL and learning from Hanners while he’s there will also be very good for his development and especially confidence.

Winning obscene amounts of the footy in the NEAFL week after week and rarely getting a look in in the seniors didn’t do Tom Mitchell’s prospects any harm, for instance.

It will also make Jack extra hungry to train hard over the preseason, to win a place in the senior side next year.

About the only way he’s getting a look in this year is if one of Steele, Crouch or Dunny get injured/suspended, or if we experiment with playing Steele mostly forward, to free up a spot in the guts for Jack.

The latter of which I would be fine with. I reckon we need to start having Steele play more the way guys like Dusty/Petracca/Bont play, and two or three games playing mostly there could help fast-track that. He’s very capable up forward.

We’re not going to want to get blown away by either Sydney or Geelong though. That could be disastrous for the club in ways that would outweigh the benefits of any young guys getting a bit more experience from playing senior footy.

We need to stay competitive.

Many on here live in a fantasy land, where they dream of what they would do in certain situations, but in that fantasy, there are no negative consequences if things don’t pan out the way they imagine, there are no restrictions on what they may or may not do, from above, there’s no pressure to perform, and so-on.

It’s always very, very easy to be critical and so-on from the cheap seats.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

As if Dunstan’s getting dropped!

Finding a tonne of the ball in the VFL and learning from Hanners while he’s there will also be very good for his development and especially confidence.

Winning obscene amounts of the footy in the NEAFL week after week and rarely getting a look in in the seniors didn’t do Tom Mitchell’s prospects any harm, for instance.

It will also make Jack extra hungry to train hard over the preseason, to win a place in the senior side next year.

About the only way he’s getting a look in this year is if one of Steele, Crouch or Dunny get injured/suspended, or if we experiment with playing Steele mostly forward, to free up a spot in the guts for Jack.

The latter of which I would be fine with. I reckon we need to start having Steele play more the way guys like Dusty/Petracca/Bont play, and two or three games playing mostly there could help fast-track that. He’s very capable up forward.

We’re not going to want to get blown away by either Sydney or Geelong though. That could be disastrous for the club in ways that would outweigh the benefits of any young guys getting a bit more experience from playing senior footy.

We need to stay competitive.

Many on here live in a fantasy land, where they dream of what they would do in certain situations, but in that fantasy, there are no negative consequences if things don’t pan out the way they imagine, there are no restrictions on what they may or may not do, from above, there’s no pressure to perform, and so-on.

It’s always very, very easy to be critical and so-on from the cheap seats.

I agree with trying to develop Steele’s forward game. He has potential but I’d love to see him so confident and consistent that every time we send him forward the opposition s**t themselves and send their second best defender to him. He’s not going to forget how to play midfield and can always go there when we really need the support.

 

[gringo2011]

As if Dunstan’s getting dropped!

Finding a tonne of the ball in the VFL and learning from Hanners while he’s there will also be very good for his development and especially confidence.

Winning obscene amounts of the footy in the NEAFL week after week and rarely getting a look in in the seniors didn’t do Tom Mitchell’s prospects any harm, for instance.

It will also make Jack extra hungry to train hard over the preseason, to win a place in the senior side next year.

About the only way he’s getting a look in this year is if one of Steele, Crouch or Dunny get injured/suspended, or if we experiment with playing Steele mostly forward, to free up a spot in the guts for Jack.

The latter of which I would be fine with. I reckon we need to start having Steele play more the way guys like Dusty/Petracca/Bont play, and two or three games playing mostly there could help fast-track that. He’s very capable up forward.

We’re not going to want to get blown away by either Sydney or Geelong though. That could be disastrous for the club in ways that would outweigh the benefits of any young guys getting a bit more experience from playing senior footy.

We need to stay competitive.

Many on here live in a fantasy land, where they dream of what they would do in certain situations, but in that fantasy, there are no negative consequences if things don’t pan out the way they imagine, there are no restrictions on what they may or may not do, from above, there’s no pressure to perform, and so-on.

It’s always very, very easy to be critical and so-on from the cheap seats.

I was all for playing him in the seniors but when he does he isn't getting enough ball to justify his spot and he's then benched for long periods. He must average about 30% time on ground. He missed most of his under 18 year, missed his first AFL season, had Covid ruin his second season and now he's been played predominantly as a medi-sub.

If you were trying to develop a player to get there really really slowly that's the model you'd follow. I reckon he'd get much more out of being a gun in the VFL for the rest of the season. If he's getting 35 possessions a week every week rush him in for someone who isn't performing in the mids.

 

[CursingFijian]

I think both sides of this argument have merit. If you have consistent good form in the twos then you deserve a shot at playing seniors.

If you have consistent good form in the seniors then you deserve to hold your spot.

I think it’s pretty clear that both players can find enough of the ball to be handy inclusions. But I’m more interested in what they can do with the ball after they’ve possessed it and also what their defensive role and capability is like. I think Dunstan has the edge at the moment because on a good day he can shut out an oppositions best inside mid. Having said that he looked like a VFL player on the weekend.

Coaches and selectors should not feel pressured into selecting any player in order to keep them at the club. If they do something is skewed in that relationship and it’s probably healthier to part ways.

I think we might be a little lost right at this moment about what the next 3 weeks is about. Are we playing for the now or the next year. It’s compounded by the fact we are still a mathematical chance if we win everything and other games go our way.

If we’re playing for next year then Bytel should be in the team and rest maybe a Ross, who I think has been super consistent and amongst our better contributors, but we know he ain’t getting any better.

My personal point of view? Play for next year. We know Bytel can win it and has been using it well in the seconds. Give him 3 games against some quality opposition, then said him off for another big preseason with a better understanding of where he needs to improve to compete with the big boys.

 

[sasaint]

I think both sides of this argument have merit. If you have consistent good form in the twos then you deserve a shot at playing seniors.

If you have consistent good form in the seniors then you deserve to hold your spot.

I think it’s pretty clear that both players can find enough of the ball to be handy inclusions. But I’m more interested in what they can do with the ball after they’ve possessed it and also what their defensive role and capability is like. I think Dunstan has the edge at the moment because on a good day he can shut out an oppositions best inside mid. Having said that he looked like a VFL player on the weekend.

Coaches and selectors should not feel pressured into selecting any player in order to keep them at the club. If they do something is skewed in that relationship and it’s probably healthier to part ways.

I think we might be a little lost right at this moment about what the next 3 weeks is about. Are we playing for the now or the next year. It’s compounded by the fact we are still a mathematical chance if we win everything and other games go our way.

If we’re playing for next year then Bytel should be in the team and rest maybe a Ross, who I think has been super consistent and amongst our better contributors, but we know he ain’t getting any better.

My personal point of view? Play for next year. We know Bytel can win it and has been using it well in the seconds. Give him 3 games against some quality opposition, then said him off for another big preseason with a better understanding of where he needs to improve to compete with the big boys.

Always appreciate your analysis CF. I agree that we should run out the season by "playing for next year" but in that I also think we should put on display the potential trades so as to get the best possible value. In that case Seeing Dunstan and Billings rack up some good games would be advantageous. That may mean that our development players have to stay at Sandy.

 

[Joffaboy]

I wanted Bytel to play too but he's better building confidence in the VFL, he's not able to play anything but inside mid and he's not getting it done in the seniors. Having him warm the bench will do more harm than good IMO. Get him in the VFL demanding a spot then push out the worst performing mid.

Completely wrong, had played forward for Sandy while resting. Don't make things up.

Anyway because Dunstan is so versatile and can play multiple positions I suppose he deserves his spot.

Bytel doesn't get things done in the seniors because he doesn't get selected.

Dunstan is almost certainly gone at seasons end but he clogs a spot while our future languishes at Sandy.

So typically St.Kilda.

 

[Joffaboy]

You'd play Dunstan because he didn't have a bad game. What message would that send. Crouch has had 2 poor weeks he'd surely go out first. I guess that's one way to get rid of Dunstan though.

The message sent is this bloke is gone at years end, lets get games into our future.

Crouch is part of our long term plans, Dunstan has deals in front of him worth more than what we have offered. FA as well.
But no lets play Dunstan. Knowing this club they will drop Dunstan and select Hannebery

 

[Joffaboy]

I think both sides of this argument have merit. If you have consistent good form in the twos then you deserve a shot at playing seniors.

If you have consistent good form in the seniors then you deserve to hold your spot.

I think it’s pretty clear that both players can find enough of the ball to be handy inclusions. But I’m more interested in what they can do with the ball after they’ve possessed it and also what their defensive role and capability is like. I think Dunstan has the edge at the moment because on a good day he can shut out an oppositions best inside mid. Having said that he looked like a VFL player on the weekend.

Coaches and selectors should not feel pressured into selecting any player in order to keep them at the club. If they do something is skewed in that relationship and it’s probably healthier to part ways.

I think we might be a little lost right at this moment about what the next 3 weeks is about. Are we playing for the now or the next year. It’s compounded by the fact we are still a mathematical chance if we win everything and other games go our way.

If we’re playing for next year then Bytel should be in the team and rest maybe a Ross, who I think has been super consistent and amongst our better contributors, but we know he ain’t getting any better.

My personal point of view? Play for next year. We know Bytel can win it and has been using it well in the seconds. Give him 3 games against some quality opposition, then said him off for another big preseason with a better understanding of where he needs to improve to compete with the big boys.

I wouldn't drop Ross, with Dunstan, Steele, and Crouch we are slow as a wet week, Bytel while not slow is not quick. It would be disastrous.

Dunstan has been playing well, but WCE and Carlton easily worked out that you quickly spread and Dunstan is exposed. I dont agree Dunstan can play shut down. Bytel is also a much better distributer.

The comparisons are ridiculous, Dunstan had been in the system for 8 seasons and has played 4 good games in about 5 years, admittedly all in the past 6 week.
Bytel was out for a year and has played a handful of games.

The disrespect comparing Bytels skill to Alsbaskis just shows the level some will resort to disrespect a young player.

 

[Browny2Carlisle]

The difference between Crouch and Dunstan is Crouch can actually hit a target and make the right decision when he's under no pressure. Dunstan seems incapable of hitting a target by foot and even his handballs always end up below his team mates knees. If he and Ross are so great why is our midfield getting smashed?
It's time to play bytel with consistency and let him play to his strengths. Focus on what he can do instead of trying to make him another role player. He's basically a ******* Steele clone ffs

 

[Diehard Saint]

As if Dunstan’s getting dropped!

Finding a tonne of the ball in the VFL and learning from Hanners while he’s there will also be very good for his development and especially confidence.

Winning obscene amounts of the footy in the NEAFL week after week and rarely getting a look in in the seniors didn’t do Tom Mitchell’s prospects any harm, for instance.

It will also make Jack extra hungry to train hard over the preseason, to win a place in the senior side next year.

About the only way he’s getting a look in this year is if one of Steele, Crouch or Dunny get injured/suspended, or if we experiment with playing Steele mostly forward, to free up a spot in the guts for Jack.

The latter of which I would be fine with. I reckon we need to start having Steele play more the way guys like Dusty/Petracca/Bont play, and two or three games playing mostly there could help fast-track that. He’s very capable up forward.

We’re not going to want to get blown away by either Sydney or Geelong though. That could be disastrous for the club in ways that would outweigh the benefits of any young guys getting a bit more experience from playing senior footy.

We need to stay competitive.

Many on here live in a fantasy land, where they dream of what they would do in certain situations, but in that fantasy, there are no negative consequences if things don’t pan out the way they imagine, there are no restrictions on what they may or may not do, from above, there’s no pressure to perform, and so-on.

It’s always very, very easy to be critical and so-on from the cheap seats.

Nek minit Dunstan dropped for Hanners

 

[kernelT]

Surely Bytel can do more than a couple of our forwards are currently? Have a few runs on a wing and a few centre bounces too.

Imagine losing the output of 5 kicks, no tackles and a dozen pressure acts up forward.

 

[pebblesofsand]

I've got nothing against Bytel - think he will be a good player for us.

But lets not gild the lily - he's played 5 games as full time mid (70% TOG or more) and has cracked 20 possessions once.

 

[Joffaboy]

I've got nothing against Bytel - think he will be a good player for us.

But lets not gild the lily - he's played 5 games as full time mid (70% TOG or more) and has cracked 20 possessions once.

Yes he has played FIVE games. Pathetic.

 

[pebblesofsand]

Yes he has played FIVE games. Pathetic.

Not sure whats pathetic about stating facts. I said he will be a good player for us, but atm he's young.

He's had one of the most interupted development of any player on our list and personally think that him dominating a string of games at Sandy will be better for him than playing 4th mid behind Steele, Crouch and Ross.

 

[Browny2Carlisle]

Yes he has played FIVE games. Pathetic.

Hasn't even won a Brownlow yet. Delist.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I've got nothing against Bytel - think he will be a good player for us.

But lets not gild the lily - he's played 5 games as full time mid (70% TOG or more) and has cracked 20 possessions once.

Disposals.
8,13,12,4,12,5,9,12,7, 19,13,20,11,3,11,19

 

[Joffaboy]

Not sure whats pathetic about stating facts. I said he will be a good player for us, but atm he's young.

He's had one of the most interupted development of any player on our list and personally think that him dominating a string of games at Sandy will be better for him than playing 4th mid behind Steele, Crouch and Ross.

yes always best to develop for AFL competition by playing VFL. Thats why you never give a young player games in the AFL until they are at least 23 and have played 5 seasons on VFL. Proven strategy

 

[ScrappyDo]

Wasn't a melt. Maybe go and see Bytel play.

He won't get experience languishing in the two's. Byrnes and Connelly get multiple games while Bytel is killing it in the two's but doesn't get a look in while our mids get flogged.
Dunstan looked great in the two's and deserved his recall and went well for a few games.
WCE found us out easily because Dunstan can't spread. Carlton did the same.

Dunstan is the past, Bytel needs some games for experience, but the coach likes to sacrifice some of our prospects like he has done for Battle

I wanted Bytel to play too but he's better building confidence in the VFL, he's not able to play anything but inside mid and he's not getting it done in the seniors. Having him warm the bench will do more harm than good IMO. Get him in the VFL demanding a spot then push out the worst performing mid.

I've been in the play Bytel camp since before the season.
Having been given a block of games as I'd wanted, the obvious thing missing was his big numbers for which he was renowned.
With only a couple of dead weeks to go, letting him destroy it in VFL is the way to go. It will pump him up for next year when he replaces Dunny outright.

 

[The Jack]

Bytel is not the messiah.

Over to you Spaceman.

 

[Joffaboy]

Bytel is not the messiah.

Over to you Spaceman.

But is he the new GOAT? Our last one was such a raging success.

 

[Diehard Saint]

yes always best to develop for AFL competition by playing VFL. Thats why you never give a young player games in the AFL until they are at least 23 and have played 5 seasons on VFL. Proven strategy

Even better if there’s barely been any vfl to play.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Bytel is not the messiah.

Over to you Spaceman.

But is he the new GOAT? Our last one was such a raging success.