20th AFL Team

[Bjo187]

The same writer published his piece on Canberra today.

I think Darwin is his preferred for sentimental reasons (as it is for many), but he recognises the strengths of Canberra.

He calls it the "compromise" option between Darwin and WA3, which I think is fair. The new market expansion of Darwin with the financial viability of WA3.

That's a good article and what we have discussed on here many times. I didn't realise they were actually going ahead with the light rail to Manuka, that's also good to hear.

 

[Canberra Pear]

That's a good article and what we have discussed on here many times. I didn't realise they were actually going ahead with the light rail to Manuka, that's also good to hear.

Stage 2b is scheduled to reach Woden in 2033, which will pass the vicinity of Manuka.

At worst, the stop will be 1km away, but possibly as close as 600-700 metres depending which route they go with.

 

[Bjo187]

Stage 2b is scheduled to reach Woden in 2033, which will pass the vicinity of Manuka.

At worst, the stop will be 1km away, but possibly as close as 600-700 metres depending which route they go with.

Actually 1km is still a fair distance though isn't it, I was thinking a few hundred metres. Also looking online, has it actually been fully approved? It appears to be still in discussion, unless I'm reading old material.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Actually 1km is still a fair distance though isn't it, I was thinking a few hundred metres. Also looking online, has it actually been fully approved? It appears to be still in discussion, unless I'm reading old material.

The fact that it's getting to Woden by 2033 is as good as fully approved, but the final route hasn't been fully locked down yet.

Obviously, I'd rather the option that goes closer, but 1km isn't that far in the scheme of stadiums. It's a 15-minute walk on Google.

For comparison, Adelaide Oval is about 600m from its closest station, the Gabba 1.4km and Carrara 2km.

There's currently a lot of development (mostly offices) along the closer route though, so I'm optimistic that one will be chosen.

 

[Dirty Bird]

No doubt NT would have to have a club structure and playing fixture like no other. Majority of their income would have to come from share of broadcast rights, government backing and because they would likely have a high profile ( unique club, isolated but iconic location) they may get significant corporate support.

Their fixture could be radical....early season training base in Adelaide...first few games out of Adelaide and then be based in Darwin playing all their home games...from May to August...11 home games over 16 weeks.. less travel demand...better connection to supporter base.. . local easily accessible small capacity roofed stadium...facilitates home matches played any night thru the week ...optimizes broadcast income.

If it could be made to work it would be great for NT and the game.

Why all games in Darwin?

Wouldn't it make it easier to start the season with 2 games in Alice Springs. They're probably going to happen either way.

Alice Springs x2 + 5 away games (1-3 in Adelaide with Gather Rd) doesn't screw them over with stupid amounts of Away games to kickstart the year, 2 home, 1 neutral, 4 away? Not bad. Then they have 9 home games in the final 16 rounds.

But at the end of the day.

To me, NT is the =2 option behind Canberra.

Anything other than Canberra is stupid at this point.

 

[Aussie in exile]

Interesting article in yesterday’s Conversation website that discussed candidates for the 20th AFL team.

Their conclusion? It’s not clearcut with plenty of time to decide - with NT a slight favourite due to the feel good factor, but as discussed in this thread the population, climate and $ being significant disadvantages.

Darwin Dingoes, Canberra Capitals, Cairns Crocodiles? Weighing up the options for the AFL’s 20th team

Tasmania is set to become the AFL’s 19th team and the league is likely to expand again at some point, which begs the question: where should the 20th club be based?

theconversation.com

Canberra already has a team called the Canberra Capitals and that's the women's basketball team

 

[LordLucifer]

Having an AFL team in Canberra is a no-brainer, just not convinced it should be an all-new entity, prefer a relocation like "Canberra Kangaroos".

As for Darwin, really bad idea, small population & the seasons are around the wrong way up there.

My preference for the next 'new' entity would be a second team based in Brisbane or a third Sydney based team on the north shore/northern beaches.

With the bigger populations around them, they have a bigger catchment to build their member/supporter base from.

 

[Bjo187]

Having an AFL team in Canberra is a no-brainer, just not convinced it should be an all-new entity, prefer a relocation like "Canberra Kangaroos".

As for Darwin, really bad idea, small population & the seasons are around the wrong way up there.

My preference for the next 'new' entity would be a second team based in Brisbane or a third Sydney based team on the north shore/northern beaches.

With the bigger populations around them, they have a bigger catchment to build their member/supporter base from.

I agree on the Canberra kangaroos, however in putting teams in population boom areas that have little interest in the sport, I don't think it works to do that across more locations. The afl have a big enough job on their hands with gws alone.

Someone gave a good example recently of 'why don't we put a team in Tokyo given this theory'. You'd want to have at least a bit of interest and demand for a team if going that route again, as it's high risk.

 

[Babylove]

Having an AFL team in Canberra is a no-brainer, just not convinced it should be an all-new entity, prefer a relocation like "Canberra Kangaroos".

As for Darwin, really bad idea, small population & the seasons are around the wrong way up there.

My preference for the next 'new' entity would be a second team based in Brisbane or a third Sydney based team on the north shore/northern beaches.

With the bigger populations around them, they have a bigger catchment to build their member/supporter base from.

I agree on you on your point on Canberra but that’s easy for me to say given it’s unlikely to be my team that has to relocate.

Your arguments about NT’s weather and population are the same arguments that got used against Tassie before the finally got someone with football business acumen to actually investigate it and do a comprehensive analysis on it which actually found that with the right infrastructure it could work. I think if we are going to write off another football heartland for those reasons it would be good to do the competitive analysis first.

I cannot see NSW getting a third team before WA or SA and if they put a third team in Queensland I think it’s more like to be North Queensland. I get your argument about the population in Sydney and Brisbane/S.E QLD. But that was the reason for going to GWS and GC in the last expansion ahead of Tassie and I don’t think that their supporter bases nor the growth of Sydney and Brisbane supporter bases suggest that a third team in either location would be a good idea right now. I think we’d want to see the four teams already there to get stronger first.

For me I’ve seen five suggestions that at the moment make the most sense are NT, SA3, WA3, Canberra and Nth QLD.

 

[Canberra Pear]

Your arguments about NT’s weather and population are the same arguments that got used against Tassie before the finally got someone with football business acumen to actually investigate it and do a comprehensive analysis on it which actually found that with the right infrastructure it could work. I think if we are going to write off another football heartland for those reasons it would be good to do the competitive analysis first.

They did do an analysis if you count the AFL NT Scoping Report, which said they'd have the $15m funding gap every year.

Tasmania and the NT are apples and oranges for demographics.

Hobart is twice as big as Darwin.

Tasmania's secondary market of Launeston and northern Tasmania is much bigger than Alice Springs.

Launceston is also 2.5 hours away from Hobart, while Alice Springs is 15 hours away.

The weather is an issue for the NT, but nothing compared to its lack and sparsity of population.

 

[Coolangatta]

They did do an analysis if you count the AFL NT Scoping Report, which said they'd have the $15m funding gap every year.

Tasmania and the NT are apples and oranges for demographics.

Hobart is twice as big as Darwin.

Tasmania's secondary market of Launeston and northern Tasmania is much bigger than Alice Springs.

Launceston is also 2.5 hours away from Hobart, while Alice Springs is 15 hours away.

The weather is an issue for the NT, but nothing compared to its lack and sparsity of population.

Yeah, I’ve never understood the weather argument against NT.

Play first 3 games in Alice Springs, then hub in Adelaide for three weeks, then from May onwards, play in Darwin, with a roofed, air conditioned stadium, and a wet weather ball.

The real problem is cost and population.

It’s not just a stadium they’d need, nor is it just the 15 million extra per year.

In this financial climate I don’t see it happening anytime soon, but wouldn’t count them out as team 21 one day.

 

[Coolangatta]

For me I’ve seen five suggestions that at the moment make the most sense are NT, SA3, WA3, Canberra and Nth QLD.

Do not threaten me with a good “24 teams in 50 years” time!

And I will darn well live to see them all.

 

[speedpeck23]

Why all games in Darwin?

Wouldn't it make it easier to start the season with 2 games in Alice Springs. They're probably going to happen either way.

Alice Springs x2 + 5 away games (1-3 in Adelaide with Gather Rd) doesn't screw them over with stupid amounts of Away games to kickstart the year, 2 home, 1 neutral, 4 away? Not bad. Then they have 9 home games in the final 16 rounds.

But at the end of the day.

To me, NT is the =2 option behind Canberra.

Anything other than Canberra is stupid at this point.

Yeh, agree with you re Alice Springs 2 and Darwin 9 games. Personally I think the AFL are very unlikely ever to relinquish Canberra as part of GWS.

 

[Coolangatta]

Yeh, agree with you re Alice Springs 2 and Darwin 9 games. Personally I think the AFL are very unlikely ever to relinquish Canberra as part of GWS.

I fear you may be right, but imagine if the Eagles had been set up the way GWS were, a Perth based team that played 3 games per year in Darwin and only got 8 home games in Perth.

Darwin is no more part of Perth than Canberra is of Western Sydney, it is a dumb connection to 'establish' long-term.

 

[Bjo187]

I honestly don't think 3 more games at giants stadium will help gws, I think if anything the crowds will drop further due to more choice at that location. I do however think those 3 games in other parts of Sydney (say 2 Henson, 1 Blacktown), would widen the reach of potential supporters for the club and keep a presence during the Easter show.

 

[Badger17]

Yeh, agree with you re Alice Springs 2 and Darwin 9 games. Personally I think the AFL are very unlikely ever to relinquish Canberra as part of GWS.

The AFL may want Canberra to remain part of GWS, but it's only a matter of time before the ACT rejects GWS as 'Canberra's team'. Nobody here genuinely considers them Canberra's team as it is frankly, and the repeated assertion by many that they are shows a total lack of understanding of the culture here and just turns locals who aren't fanatical AFL supporters off.

The only obstacle standing between Canberra dumping the Giants is Andrew Barr. Once he moves on it's only a matter of time before the relationship with GWS is thrown out completely.

 

[Bjo187]

The AFL may want Canberra to remain part of GWS, but it's only a matter of time before the ACT rejects GWS as 'Canberra's team'. Nobody here genuinely considers them Canberra's team as it is frankly, and the repeated assertion by many that they are shows a total lack of understanding of the culture here and just turns locals who aren't fanatical AFL supporters off.

The only obstacle standing between Canberra dumping the Giants is Andrew Barr. Once he moves on it's only a matter of time before the relationship with GWS is thrown out completely.

You are the typical Canberra rugby league fan, upset that the giants get more funding than the raiders (because afl games bring more visitors to the state), that Barr is an AFL fan and that Barr doesn't want to throw money down the drain on a new rectangular stadium when nobody shows up to the current rectangular stadium anyway.

 

[Badger17]

I honestly don't think 3 more games at giants stadium will help gws, I think if anything the crowds will drop further due to more choice at that location. I do however think those 3 games in other parts of Sydney (say 2 Henson, 1 Blacktown), would widen the reach of potential supporters for the club and keep a presence during the Easter show.

There's no way that Henson Park or Blacktown could host AFL fixtures without major upgrades, and I can't see the NSW government being willing to invest in those upgrades for 3 fixtures a year.

 

[Badger17]

You are the typical Canberra rugby league fan, upset that the giants get more funding than the raiders (because afl games bring more visitors to the state), that Barr is an AFL fan and that Barr doesn't want to throw money down the drain on a new rectangular stadium when nobody shows up to the current rectangular stadium anyway.

I'm just giving a neutral and objective reflection of the feelings around town without any spin or BS, which, ironically, because of you have a heavy bias towards the AFL and don't actually care about Canberra, it's community, or interests outside of how they can benefit the AFL, is why you're so upset about it and throwing around weak accusations.

The reality is that under the last 20 years of Labour government and political dominance they've neglected a lot of important services and infrastructure in favour of pursuing vanity projects. Almost all sport and entertainment infrastructure in the city, including Bruce stadium, has been neglected in that time and desperately needs upgrading, and whether you believe it's fair or not, GWS is seen by most average people here as a project that Barr supports more because of his own personal biases than because of it's tangible benefits to the community.

A large part of the reason why attendances are so low at Bruce is because it's literally a frozen rotting hellhole in the middle of nowhere. It's not an exaggeration to say that it cuts thousands off the average attendance of Raiders and Brumbies games, and that the Raiders could realistically be averaging over 20k if they had even a half decent stadium. Furthermore, any team would struggle if they were forced to play out of a venue that's so rundown and neglected that it leaks sewerage and the oldest parts are literally crumbling.

 

[Canberra Pear]

You are the typical Canberra rugby league fan, upset that the giants get more funding than the raiders (because afl games bring more visitors to the state), that Barr is an AFL fan and that Barr doesn't want to throw money down the drain on a new rectangular stadium when nobody shows up to the current rectangular stadium anyway.

He's not entirely wrong though.

AFL fans are happy to have the Giants because it's a way to support AFL, but outside of that, the Giants haven't permeated the public consciousness the way the Raiders or Brumbies have. I see way more Raiders gear than I do Giants gear. I probably even see more Collingwood than Giants.

At times, the Giants partnership is even on the nose. Any time there's a funding issue, the Giants are a cheap shot. The Raiders get almost as much in funding, so the issue isn't sport, it's that they're not a proper Canberra team. Nobody would blink twice at that money going to an actual AFL team of our own.

I don't think the Giants will ever be considered a real Canberra team (unless there's a dramatic shift in the number of games played).

 

[speedpeck23]

I fear you may be right, but imagine if the Eagles had been set up the way GWS were, a Perth based team that played 3 games per year in Darwin and only got 8 home games in Perth.

Darwin is no more part of Perth than Canberra is of Western Sydney, it is a dumb connection to 'establish' long-term.

I absolutely agree with you. The whole GWS thing is very clunky. The original plan as I understand it was to have one game each week in NSW and QLD.....hence 2 clubs each. Sydney Swans we are told is the biggest football club (any code) in NSW. I guess they had to come up with a club that potentially could have a profile equal to that.

I think in fact they were inspired by the image and marketing of West Coast. West Coast of course only plays home games in Perth but the name implies a whole of WA support base.

So the other NSW club had to represent as much of the state as possible outside Sydney....bearing in mind that the population spread from Sydney goes up and down the coast...including Newcastle , Wollongong etc... those areas are more likely to have Swans supporters if they follow AFL. The only option was to include Canberra and the rest of NSW as the opposition club. The truth is the Giants need the biggest support base they can get even if it has a clunky demographic. .

 

[MelbourneGWS]

Despite some vocal posters who keep on repeating to the contrary, the Giants are also Canberra’s home team. The Giants certainly think so, as does the AFL and our ACT Government.

In fact our CEO at the latest membership figure announcement, again reiterated that - “To have over 6000 members in Canberra for the third successive year is another huge milestone and we thank everyone in our second home for their continued passionate support”.

GIANTS Smash Membership Record

Momentum continues to build at the GIANTS, with the club setting a new membership record.

www.gwsgiants.com.au

 

[Canberra Pear]

Despite some vocal posters who keep on repeating to the contrary, the Giants are also Canberra’s home team. The Giants certainly think so, as does the AFL and our ACT Government.

In fact our CEO at the latest membership figure announcement, again reiterated that - “To have over 6000 members in Canberra for the third successive year is another huge milestone and we thank everyone in our second home for their continued passionate support”.

GIANTS Smash Membership Record

Momentum continues to build at the GIANTS, with the club setting a new membership record.

www.gwsgiants.com.au

Just like North is Tasmania's home team with 7000 members?

 

[Bjo187]

I'm just giving a neutral and objective reflection of the feelings around town without any spin or BS, which, ironically, because of you have a heavy bias towards the AFL and don't actually care about Canberra, it's community, or interests outside of how they can benefit the AFL, is why you're so upset about it and throwing around weak accusations.

The reality is that under the last 20 years of Labour government and political dominance they've neglected a lot of important services and infrastructure in favour of pursuing vanity projects. Almost all sport and entertainment infrastructure in the city, including Bruce stadium, has been neglected in that time and desperately needs upgrading, and whether you believe it's fair or not, GWS is seen by most average people here as a project that Barr supports more because of his own personal biases than because of it's tangible benefits to the community.

A large part of the reason why attendances are so low at Bruce is because it's literally a frozen rotting hellhole in the middle of nowhere. It's not an exaggeration to say that it cuts thousands off the average attendance of Raiders and Brumbies games, and that the Raiders could realistically be averaging over 20k if they had even a half decent stadium. Furthermore, any team would struggle if they were forced to play out of a venue that's so rundown and neglected that it leaks sewerage and the oldest parts are literally crumbling.

You're not though, you are a rugby league fan aren't you? I don't think you want what's best for afl in Canberra at all, so your opinions are more biased than anyone in here. I agree gws should move out of Canberra, but do you want an AFL club in Canberra, or just no afl presence in Canberra full stop?

 

[MelbourneGWS]

Barr won't be around in 8 years time when a new team will likely come in, do you know of his deputies and if any of them are footy people? They will increase the chances significantly if they are, but in contrast a rugby/league shill on the other hand would be detrimental.

Barr will become the longest serving chief minister in ACT history in a couple of months. In the absence of strong third party independents, the election in October will almost certainly result in an another ALP-Greens government.

I suspect that Barr may have Federal ambitions, and in any case it’s hard to see him being motivated to hang around till the next Territory election in 2028. Yvette Berry, the current Deputy, will almost certainly replace Barr if/when he steps down. Ms Berry is the current Sports Minister.

The wildcard for the October elections will be if Senator Pocock, who was an Australian rugby Union representative, fields Pocock aligned independents and they hold the balance of power. I don’t know much about Pocock’s policies but he seems to be a strong advocate for a new multi use rectangular stadium in civic

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