Samantha Murphy Ballarat * Patrick Orren Stephenson Charged With Murder

[Kurve]

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The Murder of Rebecca Young - Ballarat

The Murder of Hannah McGuire - Ballarat * Lachie Young

17

Lachie Young

Age

25

Ht

189cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.5

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

220.3

3star

D

9.0

2star

K

5.5

2star

HB

3.5

2star

M

1.0

1star

T

2.0

3star

MG

210.0

3star

D

11.2

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

5.0

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

1.8

4star

MG

219.6

4star

charged



Allegedly

 

[Kurve]

Just my opinion here, (I am not claiming any of this as fact) but I think the murder charge is leverage to get him to give up the location of the body. I said they have enough prima facie evidence to charge him with murder, not necessarily enough to get a conviction. I think the position of the accused (possibly with legal advice) is that he is seeking a lesser charge / lesser conviction, and that is why he is remaining silent as to where the body is - he might exchange the location of the body for an agreement to a lesser charge. So it's a "Mexican stand-off".

The penalty is almost the same. Culpable driving max 20 years, murder 25 years.

He can't stall for much longer imo. We just started the working week and his lawyer will be more active, so hopefully we might get news soon that he's told them where she is.

 

[31550]

The penalty is almost the same. Culpable driving max 20 years, murder 25 years.

He can't stall for much longer imo. We just started the working week and his lawyer will be more active, so hopefully we might get news soon that he's told them where she is.

Perhaps his defence is looking for an even lesser charge/conviction? I think murder is life and manslaughter 25 ? Also culpable driving or vehicular manslaughter requires proof a vehicle caused death, which may be problematic as all currently revealed evidence is circumstantial. So a simple manslaughter charge might fit better.

 

[jason_recliner]

The average age of male murderers is 35.

The median age of a male in Victoria is 37.

 

[31550]

The median age of a male in Victoria is 37.

What's your point?

 

[Kurve]

Perhaps his defence is looking for an even lesser charge/conviction?

They probably won't be able to prove he was drug or alcohol affected at the time, so that might be a consideration.

 

[31550]

They probably won't be able to prove he was drug or alcohol affected at the time, so that might be a consideration.

Widespread reports of him out partying and drug-taking. Are these all made up? Surely the police would have interviewed his friends / associates and the owners / employees of the premises he attended? I think his movements up until around 3am are documented? If he was consuming drugs or heavily drug-affected at 3am, he was likely still drug-affected at 8am.

 

[Kurve]

Is there a possibility that if he is on video camera in a pub consuming alcohol or drugs ( I know the video floating around wasn’t the night before) until a certain time they might be able to get an expert to say what his levels would be by 7/8am?

How many alcoholic drinks he bought, perhaps backed up by CCTV in the club might get through but someone saying he consumed illicit drugs probably won't stand up, there would be too many problems with that as evidence.

 

[jason_recliner]

What's your point?

We were discussing the significance (scuse the pun!) of statistics and correlation.

 

[31550]

How many alcoholic drinks he bought, perhaps backed up by CCTV in the club might get through but someone saying he consumed illicit drugs won't stand up, there would be too many problems with that as evidence.

Agree one person alone saying they saw him take drugs on the night means little, but if they interview several people and they all tell the same story independently, it might carry more weight. Some of them may even admit to a little more, especially if 'pressured' by police.

 

[Kurve]

Agree one person alone saying they saw him take drugs on the night means little, but if they interview several people and they all tell the same story independently, it might carry more weight. Some of them may even admit to a little more, especially if 'pressured' by police.

Yeh you could be right but then they'd have to be prepared to admit to taking it themselves and to knowing what it was. Ice, cocaine, MDMA which could be laced with anything, acid?

There could be fallout from that. If his mates are anything like him, steeled against talking to the police, they're not talking either.

 

[jason_recliner]

Is being voluntarily under the influence of drugs a mitigating factor in sentencing?

 

[31550]

Yeh you could be right but then they'd have to be prepared to admit to taking it themselves and to knowing what it was. Ice, cocaine, MDMA which could be laced with anything, acid?

There could be fallout from that. If his mates are anything like him, steeled against talking to the police, they're not talking either.

We don't know that he isn't talking to police. We only know he hasn't revealed the location of the body.
They don't have to admit to taking any particular substance or known quantity of such substance (although they might do so to avoid being charged with something even more serious).

I would like to point out a possible 'wild coincidence' when viewing EFAS for Ballarat Magi court:

There was a Ballarat Highway patrol case for a Patrick Stephenson Q10524645 heard immediately preceding the Missing Persons case against Patrick Orren Stephenson Q10502257.

Both these cases are now listed for mention on 8 August consecutively.

Is it possible that POS was intercepted by the Highway patrol on the evening before SM disappeared, and this is how police may know he was drug or alcohol-affected. Or even on the day, or day after? Is it also possible that he did not want to talk about where he was on the morning of SM's disappearance because he had (again) driven his vehicle in a drug or affected state? Or is that too much of a long bow?

 

[Kurve]

Is being voluntarily under the influence of drugs a mitigating factor in sentencing?

The truck driver who killed the police in ice psychosis, believing them to be witches, got 12 years for each officer he killed but somehow it added up to 22 years, then it was reduced to 18 years after he agreed to testify against his boss.

 

[onthemoney]

If a friend has assisted the alleged in disposing of the body, is there any scenario in which we, the general public, wouldn't know about that yet?

E.g. if the friend had turned star witness, would that have the potential to limit them from being charged as an accessory?

 

[thumbs_up]

If a friend has assisted the alleged in disposing of the body, is there any scenario in which we, the general public, wouldn't know about that yet?

E.g. if the friend had turned star witness, would that have the potential to limit them from being charged as an accessory?

If this was true, wouldn't they be able to assist by telling police where the body is?

 

[31550]

If a friend has assisted the alleged in disposing of the body, is there any scenario in which we, the general public, wouldn't know about that yet?

E.g. if the friend had turned star witness, would that have the potential to limit them from being charged as an accessory?

Police have said they aren't looking for anyone else. Police don't have the body - why would they offer any deal to a 'star witness'?

 

[Kurve]

If a friend has assisted the alleged in disposing of the body, is there any scenario in which we, the general public, wouldn't know about that yet?

E.g. if the friend had turned star witness, would that have the potential to limit them from being charged as an accessory?

I did wonder if anybody else might have been involved and turned but snagged on it because I'd think in order to evade a really harsh penalty, they'd have to take the police to her body.

Unless PO has gone back, picked Samantha up again and moved her somewhere else. Stalker cop Lamarre did that with the two he murdered.

 

[onthemoney]

If this was true, wouldn't they be able to assist by telling police where the body is?

Theoretically no if they were only involved in one part of it?

I don't think it's legit at all, and I don't see how it could be legit without it making the news... Hence my question, is it possible? Sounds like it's a no.

 

[31550]

I did wonder if anybody else might have been involved and turned but snagged on it because I'd think in order to evade a really harsh penalty, they'd have to take the police to her body.

Unless PO has gone back, picked Samantha up again and moved her somewhere else. Stalker cop Lamarre did that with the two he murdered.

Doesn't make much sense to go back. Just increases the chance of being caught. Pretty sure the theory is that the body was moved immediately following some incident which caused SM's death.

 

[31550]

How do we know Highway Patrol got PO for drug driving? Could it have been for speeding way over the speed limit or dangerous driving? Something like that? Why does it have to be drug driving?

Of course. Might have been a speed camera. Pure speculation on my part. The traffic offence might still have put him on the radar, depending on date/time/location? There has to be a reason the cops closed in on him so (relatively) quickly.

I was speculating that IF it was a drug-related offence then that might provide evidence that POS was drug-affected at the time of SM's disappearance, which might also support the prima facie case for murder.

I am also only speculating that it is the same person in both cases.

 

[Kurve]

Of course. Might have been a speed camera. Pure speculation on my part. The traffic offence might still have put him on the radar, depending on date/time/location? There has to be a reason the cops closed in on him so (relatively) quickly.

I was speculating that IF it was a drug-related offence then that might provide evidence that POS was drug-affected at the time of SM's disappearance, which might also support the prima facie case for murder.

I am also only speculating that it is the same person in both cases.

I've seen the court listing, the Highway Patrol matter is only a mention date.

 

[31550]

I've seen the court listing, the Highway Patrol matter is only a mention date.

Yeah or the case wouldn't be going to court.

 

[Terrafirma]

Yes 8th August the Highway patrol case (PS) is at 9:30 and the Missing Persons case (POS) is at 10:00.
I guess all will be revealed.
Now I am starting to think that he was intercepted by Highway Patrol AFTER the event, and this is what put him 'on the radar' so to speak. Then they examined his movements prior to being intercepted, and found that they coincided with SM's location. They then would have had him under surveillance for a couple of weeks (possibly to see if he led them to the body, accomplices, or other evidence). The drug driving and phone ping data alone is probably enough circumstantial evidence to charge him, although more may have been revealed when they questioned him.

The $$$ question was he intercepted or was it just a camera that nabbed him? If they intercepted they would have drug/alcohol tested him but camera only records speed and time. Also wasn't there mention a few weeks ago before accused was announced as charged that a sighting of a damaged vehicle of interest was being investigated? If he was actually intercepted and tested positive yes it would have led to surveillance.

 

[31550]

Someone with a knowledge of the Ballarat Police might be able to give us some insight into whether A. Birrell 42957 would be a mobile Highway Patrol informant or a Speed Camera informant?

 

[Terrafirma]

Is there a possibility he ran her over in the car park adjacent to where her phone last pinged in an drug/alcohol induced state? As the Police are saying it was a deliberate act then I doubt it? Unless he said something to her from the window of his car and she told him where to go? Just asking this because I read there was talk of a damaged vehicle being sought? Or the vehicle was used after the fact to dispose of her body? If so evidence would most certainly have existed in the vehicle