Hannah McGuire - Another Senseless Ballarat Murder * Lachie Young charged

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rdhopkins2

rdhopkins2

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Oct 1, 2002
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rdhopkins2 said:
Another senseless murder near Ballarat at Scarsdale. Hannah’s body was found in a burnt out car.

Disgusting. A tragic waste of life and another family left to pick up the pieces.

2 young males in custody.



I like Ballarat so nothing against the place (maybe the weather in winter ❄️).
Click to expand...
Article headline says 21YO man charged with murder. Then the second last paragraph says "no charges have been laid"??
 
31550 said:
Article headline says 21YO man charged with murder. Then the second last paragraph says "no charges have been laid"??
Click to expand...
My guess is that they cut and pasted details from an earlier article into this one and forgot to check it properly, hence not removing the “no charges have been laid part”. I’ve seen it happen before.
 

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Last edited:
What is most troubling for those of us up here, it's another young twenty something charged with a murder of a woman. What has happened to this generation? I am a firm believer of nurture over nature in regards to how individuals develop into adults. Is it their parent's fault? Is it the education system from the turn of this century? Is it the preponderance of social media exposure? Is it online gaming? Or is it 'in their genes', the nature argument?
I'm at a loss, but what was a safe town to bring up a family is becoming something else, a sinister city with a dark underbelly....
This will probably sound ridiculous but up here there is a distinct lack of understanding/respect for fellow drivers; which is especially obvious when approaching a roundabout. The young blokes in their oversized Utes with their green 'P's go flying through like it's a right. I don't know how many times I've almost seen an accident when a driver with the 'right of way' is either almost hit, or tail-gated out of the roundabout super aggressively. For me that represents an attitude of entitlement, a lack of understanding of where we all fit into the community. That they had better get their way or you'd best be getting out of their way.....
 
DirtyLeeds said:
What is most troubling for those of us up here, it's another young twenty something charged with a murder of a woman. What has happened to this generation? I am a firm believer of nurture over nature in regards to how individuals develop into adults. Is it their parent's fault? Is it the education system from the turn of this century? Is it the preponderance of social media exposure? Is it online gaming? Or is it 'in their genes', the nature argument?
I'm at a loss, but what was a safe town to bring up a family is becoming something else, a sinister city with a dark underbelly....
This will probably sound ridiculous but up here there is a distinct lack of understanding/respect for fellow drivers; which is especially obvious when approaching a roundabout. The young blokes in their oversized Utes with their green 'P's go flying through like it's a right. I don't know how many times I've almost seen an accident when a driver with the 'right of way' is either almost hit, or tail-gated out of the roundabout super aggressively. For me that represents an attitude of entitlement, a lack of understanding of where we all fit into the community. That they had better get their way or you'd best be getting out of their way.....
Click to expand...
You've touched on a few issues - the explosion of social media which has led to deterioration of social skills and disconnect from community. Rise in mental health issues, especially depression. Drugs and alcohol. Gaming, gambling. Add to this many young adults today had their social, mental and emotional development scarred and interrupted by COVID and lockdown. The cost of technology advances is a disconnect from real human interaction and true sense of society and community. This leads to an unhealthy sense of entitlement.
 
31550 said:
You've touched on a few issues - the explosion of social media which has led to deterioration of social skills and disconnect from community. Rise in mental health issues, especially depression. Drugs and alcohol. Gaming, gambling. Add to this many young adults today had their social, mental and emotional development scarred and interrupted by COVID and lockdown. The cost of technology advances is a disconnect from real human interaction and true sense of society and community. This leads to an unhealthy sense of entitlement.
Click to expand...
I missed the COVID impact, how quickly we forget!! Finally a Collingwood supporter who gets life!?! Just joking, but COVID was really a flash in the pan, in the scheme of life it was a speed bump, it's not like they missed a crucial life moment, males don't 'mature' until their mid to late twenties, both these boys theoretically weren't there yet. That's probably more of an explanation than anything, a juvenile understanding of what it means to be in a community. 'Its not about me' anymore...
But the real question is what do/can we do?
 
I see it, too, and I think a big part of it is the indulgence of poor behaviours by parents from a young age.

Many things I see kids allowed to do today my friends and I simply would not have been allowed to do, to the point that we never would have attempted it. Now not only do I see it happening, but when challenged about it, parents defend their children’s “rights” or “needs”. I put these in parentheses because nobody has a right or need to run around a restaurant bashing diners in the legs. It instills in children that their wants outweigh those of others, that others are an irrelevance, and that environment doesn’t matter.

I also think this shift towards “your truth” is dangerous. While experiences and perception are important for the individual, they are not necessarily determinate of the whole picture or reality, and being upset does not necessarily mean someone is responsible for that upset in a way that requires accountability. To put it another way, everyone has feelings and while people are free to make personal decisions based on their feelings they are not free to force that down everyone else’s throat.

The other issue to me is communication. The amount of issues I see could be resolved with a conversation but instead become a huge self-centred drama due to a refusal to have said conversation is ridiculous. Children are being taught to navel gaze and obsess over themselves rather than being taught resolution and empathy.

All of these things breed a self-centric and entitled view of the world.

And I’m not even that old.
 
ms finch said:
I see it, too, and I think a big part of it is the indulgence of poor behaviours by parents from a young age.

Many things I see kids allowed to do today my friends and I simply would not have been allowed to do, to the point that we never would have attempted it. Now not only do I see it happening, but when challenged about it, parents defend their children’s “rights” or “needs”. I put these in parentheses because nobody has a right or need to run around a restaurant bashing diners in the legs. It instills in children that their wants outweigh those of others, that others are an irrelevance, and that environment doesn’t matter.

I also think this shift towards “your truth” is dangerous. While experiences and perception are important for the individual, they are not necessarily determinate of the whole picture or reality, and being upset does not necessarily mean someone is responsible for that upset in a way that requires accountability. To put it another way, everyone has feelings and while people are free to make personal decisions based on their feelings they are not free to force that down everyone else’s throat.

The other issue to me is communication. The amount of issues I see could be resolved with a conversation but instead become a huge self-centred drama due to a refusal to have said conversation is ridiculous. Children are being taught to navel gaze and obsess over themselves rather than being taught resolution and empathy.

All of these things breed a self-centric and entitled view of the world.

And I’m not even that old.
Click to expand...
Agree with everything you are saying. "My truth" is a perfect example of someone without any understanding of what truth actually means "...a proven or verified fact...", nothing about how or what you perceive to be true. Its what makes the majority of us different to Donald Trump and his Q-Anon, conspiracy theory swallowing, old white boomers believe in.
Maybe we should all just all head for the hills.....
 

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DirtyLeeds said:
What is most troubling for those of us up here, it's another young twenty something charged with a murder of a woman. What has happened to this generation? I am a firm believer of nurture over nature in regards to how individuals develop into adults. Is it their parent's fault? Is it the education system from the turn of this century? Is it the preponderance of social media exposure? Is it online gaming? Or is it 'in their genes', the nature argument?
I'm at a loss, but what was a safe town to bring up a family is becoming something else, a sinister city with a dark underbelly....
This will probably sound ridiculous but up here there is a distinct lack of understanding/respect for fellow drivers; which is especially obvious when approaching a roundabout. The young blokes in their oversized Utes with their green 'P's go flying through like it's a right. I don't know how many times I've almost seen an accident when a driver with the 'right of way' is either almost hit, or tail-gated out of the roundabout super aggressively. For me that represents an attitude of entitlement, a lack of understanding of where we all fit into the community. That they had better get their way or you'd best be getting out of their way.....
Click to expand...
There are a lot of s##t people doing drugs, doing crime, they now have kids, and the kids have grown up.
 
ElliottsMaggies said:
Autopsy. She was murdered before the car was burnt.
Click to expand...

How can a death like this be dismissed as suicide before the coroners report?
Surely they have to assume it is a murder, until the coroners report can refute this.
Or are VIC Police just not resourced enough to do this?

www.dailymail.co.uk

Accused killer Lachie Young fronts court over Hannah McGuire murder

The mother of Hannah McGuire has wept openly in court as the man who allegedly murdered her hid his face.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk

'It is understood Ms McGuire's death had initially been dismissed as a suicide after her body was found in a burnt out car.
But a coroner's report indicated she had allegedly sustained deadly injuries before the vehicle was engulfed in flames.'
 
BFew said:
How can a death like this be dismissed as suicide before the coroners report?
Surely they have to assume it is a murder, until the coroners report can refute this.
Or are VIC Police just not resourced enough to do this?

www.dailymail.co.uk

Accused killer Lachie Young fronts court over Hannah McGuire murder

The mother of Hannah McGuire has wept openly in court as the man who allegedly murdered her hid his face.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk

'It is understood Ms McGuire's death had initially been dismissed as a suicide after her body was found in a burnt out car.
But a coroner's report indicated she had allegedly sustained deadly injuries before the vehicle was engulfed in flames.'
Click to expand...
Those who performed the autopsy would have that answer.

The person who suggested it was suicide is the person they have charged with Hannah's murder.
 
DirtyLeeds said:
I missed the COVID impact, how quickly we forget!! Finally a Collingwood supporter who gets life!?! Just joking, but COVID was really a flash in the pan, in the scheme of life it was a speed bump, it's not like they missed a crucial life moment, males don't 'mature' until their mid to late twenties, both these boys theoretically weren't there yet. That's probably more of an explanation than anything, a juvenile understanding of what it means to be in a community. 'Its not about me' anymore...
But the real question is what do/can we do?
Click to expand...
Don't underestimate the COVID impact, particularly on young males who entered adulthood during COVID. Instead of going out and mingling with people their own age in person, they were stuck at home behind keyboards or game consoles. They were denied the opportunity to participate in things like team sports, which help enormously with the development of social skills, and are contra-indicative to mental health issues such as depression. It became 'normal' to interact with a very limited 'world' via social media rather than meeting and mixing with a diverse group of demographics and developing things like empathy, social awareness, and non-textual communication skills.
Of course, it's not all down to COVID, but COVID exacerbated an already-worsening detrimental social impact brought about by the reliance of social media rather than traditional forms of social contact and communication.
 
Covid may well have unleashed an incel type unable to control their emotional intelligence. Lockdown influence can’t be underestimated. Can’t see girls / mates / extended family.

Compound this with
education levels
upbringing / family values
other mental imbalances
potential substance abuse
cost of living (both parents working?)
Social media / online / gaming
pr0n (male is often portrayed as the dominant partner I believe and female as submissive)

and a myriad of other potential factors and you have a cocktail for crime.

Not saying any of these are excuses but factors that will need to be considered (and how to mitigate these in future so as not to happen again to some other poor young lady).

I don’t know much about the alleged perpetrator but the investigation into this tragedy will hopefully help identify triggers that can be used to prevent further senseless los of life and a family that are left to deal with the aftermath of a preventable, unjust and untimely death.

The impact on the perpetrator/s and (any) accomplices families and friends is also an unfair burden they will bear.

For the perpetrator, the ability to think rationally and not commit such a horrendous offence would have saved them from presumably a lengthy term of imprisonment and the tag of ‘murderer’ for the rest of their life.
 
What I find sad about Hannah McGuire's case which is identical to many others is she lived in fear of this happening had put a restraining order on her killer yet this achieved nothing. She is now dead. Especially in the case of the killers who are not mentally stable. It's not a matter of if, it's simply when and our system waits until someone is dead/murdered before it responds. There has to be a better way. Thousand of girls/wives etc have died under these circumstances.
 
DirtyLeeds said:
Agree with everything you are saying. "My truth" is a perfect example of someone without any understanding of what truth actually means "...a proven or verified fact...", nothing about how or what you perceive to be true. Its what makes the majority of us different to Donald Trump and his Q-Anon, conspiracy theory swallowing, old white boomers believe in.
Maybe we should all just all head for the hills.....
Click to expand...
Yes, exactly. And we’re not going to shift this developing mentality across the community until we stop indulging or even tolerating people like Trump, whether they are someone on the world stage or someone in our friendship circles.

Incels (and some affiliated groups such as MGTOWs) in particular are a group/groups that really concerns me. Their entire ideology is bred from entitlement and they exist in echo chambers that feed this entitlement. While we focus our combative energy on those who identify specifically as incels, a lot of the mentality seeps into the community generally and in more subtle ways.
 
So many more red flags to try and dodge from a potential partner these days.

When I was younger my main turn off attribute in a partner was if they were a smoker. Now you've got to look out for antivax, right wing, Tate fan, Trump fan, Liberal, etc.

I actually said to my missus a few years ago, imagine if one of us ended up being an antivaxxer during covid, we'd have to divorce.

I think it mainly comes down to parenting, there are so many dropkick parents out there these days. Watching Front Bar the other week it was really nice to hear Trent Cotchin speak about his dad as his best mate and how his dad would religiously call him for a chat 3 hours before every single AFL game he played. Sadly I'd guess those values are hard to find in at least 50% of parents these days.
 
fs88 said:
So many more red flags to try and dodge from a potential partner these days.

When I was younger my main turn off attribute in a partner was if they were a smoker. Now you've got to look out for antivax, right wing, Tate fan, Trump fan, Liberal, etc.

I actually said to my missus a few years ago, imagine if one of us ended up being an antivaxxer during covid, we'd have to divorce.

I think it mainly comes down to parenting, there are so many dropkick parents out there these days. Watching Front Bar the other week it was really nice to hear Trent Cotchin speak about his dad as his best mate and how his dad would religiously call him for a chat 3 hours before every single AFL game he played. Sadly I'd guess those values are hard to find in at least 50% of parents these days.
Click to expand...
Many parents are equally distressed by the influence of social media & all the negatives which come with it.
 
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