Autopsy Round 4, 2025: Positives and Negatives vs GWS

[Coasters7]

Forward half gameplan... And yet the opposition half backs get to roam up the ground, playing without an opponent all day.

View attachment 2274488

The midfield, whilst beaten, for the most fared somewhat better than could have been expected. Halfway through the third quarter West Coast were ahead in both contested possessions and inside 50s.

Yet the team were outscored 11 goals to 2 from stoppage as GWS were allowed to play their half backs as additional midfielders whose attacking runs forward were never tracked.

Uncontested possessions were -118; the 4th worst differential of that statistic for West Coast in the last 15 years.


With so many players running unopposed through the middle, the GWS forwards were able to get super-aggressive ahead of the ball without worrying about the potential risk of turnover, creating an outnumber in their favour almost every time they went forward.

The Giants had 19 shots on goal that originated from possession sources inside their own defensive half.


It's not like this was a surprise tactic from GWS either - it pretty much is their identity.

Those half back accumulators should have been shut down to the highest degree possible. Instead they were able to do as they pleased whilst Eagles' forwards stayed in their position, applying pressure towards the ball that was soon extinguished by the release of the man who had run off them.

Hopefully, A.McQualter goes through the tapes, sees the above issue undermining his desired gameplan, and puts something in place to ensure greater accountability and prevent so many loose opposition numbers from impacting higher up the ground.

Address that and suddenly much of the rot will become far easier to manage.



On individuals, there was an all-too-familiar feeling, that has happened far too many times in recent years, of players showing up, but not turning up to play.

T.Kelly, on the road and opposed by the 192cm T.Green, did as he has done in the past and became a spectator rather than compete against a bigger body. 6 disposals and 0 tackles at half time aren't acceptable.

O.Allen, after his self-inflicted week of being the media villain, showed little in the way of a response that will endear supporters. No goals, 3 score involvements, and his defending opponent was the most dominant player in that area of the ground.

T.Cole didn't even touch the ball in the first half at all - indeed all he did was give away a free kick and let his direct opponent get 8 score involvements in the same period. That's comical.

There were plenty more examples, where the experienced cohort seemingly refused to dig deep when faced with the task that was required. Those three names are simply specified due to how glaring their ineptitude was when each of the lines they were in was crying out for some form of positive example to follow.


But a corner certainly appears to have been turned in terms of squad output. Increasingly, performance is being led by the youth of the side rather than the leadership, which obviously leads to serious questions about the relevance and future of those older players - if they are not providing leadership, then all they are effectively doing is preventing another young player from getting a chance to develop.

Because, with the desperate state the club is in, there are at least some of positives to see in the kids.


T.Gross looks like a natural stoppage player with genuine midfield awareness. 17 disposals, led the team in clearances, score involvements, was second for inside 50s and kicked a goal. It says much about where the club is at when an 18-year old in their first match leads the midfield. If fit, he needs to play every game now.

H.Reid showed a maturity that I was starting to think was beyond him - didn't get sucked into arguing or wrestling or playing with the crowd (not that there was any) and just got back to basics and executed the best option when in possession. You could see his confidence returning the longer the match went on. Led the team for disposals; hopefully, just playing football, and not worrying about all the other stuff, is just what he needs.

A.Reid keeps showing signs that he has potential to become a seriously good player in years to come. Reads the ball well in the air and positions himself remarkably well in one-on-one contests for a player who is currently conceding a good amount of mass and strength against his opponents. Just needs to fix up that set shot kicking.

In J.McGovern's absence, it was R.Ginbey who marshalled the defence. Ten matches ago, his selection was being questioned. Now plays on bigs and smalls and looks like a lock for the next 10 years. Had twice the number of defensive spoils as the next best in the team did, in addition to 8 intercepts and over 500 metres gained. He still hasn't even played 50 games.

Since R.Maric has moved into defence, he has led the club in disposals, rebound 50s and metres gained. Defensively, he still has a lot to learn, but his offensive potential from that position is a weapon.

C.Hall showed that the match against Brisbane was not an aberration - only L.Baker and T.Green had more contested possessions from both teams. Needs to work on his tank as opponents were able to get away from him on the spread too easily on too many occasions. With his size and strength around stoppage, there is more than enough to work with there.

S.Brock was a key in a defence that was on the receiving end of a 9 goal day from J.Hogan - yet given the circumstances and the ease of how GWS were able to get possession forward in numbers, I feel he was actually one the team's better performers on the day in his debut. Used the ball well and had a game-high 9 intercepts.

J.Williams continues to quietly do what he does. Provides a contest, takes marks, takes on the ruck when asked and kicks truly in front of goal - what else can you ask for from a forward getting junk supply? Still only 21, scored multiple goals, and doing a lot more than the wantaway captain is right now.

H.Davis had a debut off the substitute chair, but did more in his limited minutes than many of his more experienced team-mates managed across the entire game.



The beginnings of the next core group are starting to take shape, but the harvest remains years away.

All the while, the hard work of dealing with the ossified parts has been left for a novel coach to pull a rabbit out of a hat.

90% of the issue is the closing speed of defenders, as well as the obvious centre bounce ones.

Lost count of the amount of times players would (rightly) leave their man only to then not get to the contest quick enough and watch the ball sail over their head. A “front half game” needs everyone to be on the same page and covering for each other.

A lot harder to do with a young side as well and we knew it was going to be a tough start. If it still looks like this after the bye then it’ll be worrying. A bit concerning that the heavy defeats might take the wind out of everyone by then as well.

TLDR: Feel like we need better, more athletic, small defenders

 

[WeaponX]

Even though we are bad they are paid professionals, they should always bring effort and be fit. I see lots of players not chasing and giving up easily which is garbage, I also see players run out of steam quickly which I think is totally unacceptable and unprofessional. Tommy Cole has to go, this guy just brings nothing and is clogging the list. At this stage of our rebuild its time to just play the kids through the middle and hope we can find a ball winner because at the moment I only see Clay Hall getting down and dirty at the stoppages. Kelly I think is secretly hoping he gets traded back to Geelong and wants to dig a hole and hide in it.

 

[Tyberious Funk]

I feel like we copped some flack in media circles for not getting a deal done with Oscar earlier... like, he copped criticism for meeting with Mitchell, but the side note was that we might have bought this on ourselves by not locking the deal away sooner.

And yet, his output has been putrid... is it any wonder the club might have balked at (what is rumoured to be) a request for a 6 year deal?

 

[Ruben Grubarb]

Tries hard with no skills. Agree that's better than Cancer Kelly, but it's also the type of player that would be a legend of the 1990s Freo sides.

bAker 1s a GuN.

- Shauny McManus

 

[Yeahnahmate]

Pros:

• Ginbey our best player so far this season
• Reid gathering some steam now after a slower start to the year
• Hall 3rd best overall on ground contested possessions and 1st in Bris game. Absolutely have to keep playing him. He’s young, but improved and we need players to winning it inside and shovelling it out
• Gross, I mean we knew but the kid just has it
• Maric gets things moving and 558 metres gained. Is following instructions and providing drive out of the backline.
• JWill better than Allen
• Brock far better as a tall when linking up out of defence and not being stagnant which will help our ball movement and counterattack more than previous plodding around from our key backs
• Competed better in the middle overall and differentials tightened with regards to contested ball & i50s. The way we use the ball and go inside though is nowhere near the required standard at the moment

Cons

• We still got belted, which I knew was coming. GWS are no joke
• How shit is Oscar Allen?
• We have a million small forwards, all playing pretty bad right now. Malakai a chance to come in and do a Dudley. Liam Ryan’s very strong start to the year and the class drop when he is out is stark
• Poor Brock copping GWS and Hogan for a baptism of fire

 

[TY24]

Brock is going to get unfairly blamed for Hogan kicking so many. He lost out properly only a couple times (to be expected) but it looked like we were trying and failing to run some sort of team defence on him for most of the day. Multiple times Maric or Ginbey appeared to be his primary man. I'd certainly give brock another couple goes to see how he goes in more normal circumstances.

Surprisingly I haven’t seen any media criticism of him at all. The Comms team were singing his praises and pointing out that he had an equal match high 9 intercepts

His spoiling needs work, no doubt about that, but that’s something that can be coached and will come with time in the role.

There’s plenty to work with there.

 

[ToastieBoy18]

Alright, I am sick of being negative, so trying to look at as many positives as I can.

I have split all the team into tiers, where I believe they currently fit.

Tier 1 - Hawthorn, Brisbane, GWS, Adelaide, Gold Coast

Tier 2 - Fremantle, Bulldogs, Sydney, Collingwood, Geelong

Tier 3 - St Kilda, Carlton, Essendon, Port Adelaide

Tire 4 - Richmond, West Coast, North Melbourne, Melbourne.

Our first four week, we have played 3 teams from Tier 1, one team from the upper end of tier 2. That is a bloody tough run for a team that has struggled like we have for the last 3 years.

The next 6 weeks we play - Carlton, Essendon, Hawthorn, Melbourne, Richmond and St Kilda.

To break it down, that is one Tier 1 team, three Tier 3 teams and two Tier 4 teams. This will give us a much clearer indication of where we are actually at.

The results have been unacceptable, and we need to be able to compete for longer against quality teams.

Unlike in 2023, when we were seeing similar results, there have been some shining lights, and green shoots from our younger players. It is making the watch far more bearable than it was back then.

Positives -

Harley - Focussed his game entirely on the footy, didn't get involved in anything else. Provided good run and carry and gave first option by hand a number of times. I don't mind him settling at half back with stints in the midfield the next month, to build fitness and confidence.

Maric - Defensively needs alot of work, but with ball in hand was again really good. Happy to bite off the tough kicks.

Hall - Strong inside game, hands on the footy. His kicking is poor, much better by hand. Needs a month of consistent AFL footy and will get better.

Ginbey - You forget that he is only in his 3rd season. Coming on in leaps and bounds as a defender. A number of big one on one wins against quality forwards. His skills need to improve, but he gives his all every week and is probably top 2 in the bnf right now.

Gross - He is a natural ball hunter. Skills will improve when he finds the pace of the game, but couldn't have been more impressed with him on debut. Looks such a natural mid. Must play the rest of the year.

Dewar - Is currently making one or two bad errors every game, but still showed plenty. He is so clean below his knees.

Brock - Defintely isn't suited to matching up on the big strong key forwards. Didn't do much wrong, and offensively was impressive. I feel he will be a good matchup for an athletic key forward, starting with Curnow this week.

JWilliams - Must keep playing him. Is progressing really well as our forward/ruck option. Such a nice amrk and shot for goal.

AReid - Improving every week. Is deceivingly strong. Big contested marks against Taylor and Buckley. Like Williams, must keep playing.

Davis - Saw abit of the ball when coming on and was strong in some contests. Not ready yet, but will get some good exposure throughout the year.

All of these players are between years 1 - 4. This for me is a positive.



I have been heavily in the, Cole and Hunt deserve there spot, but after watching yesterday I have flipped. Both try hard, but we have enough of those in the side. Might as well blood the young guys who will have similar output. Johnston and Allan to come in and replace. Waterman and Ryan for Long and Brockman/Owies.

Looking forward to the next 6 week to watch these young guys continue to grow.

 

[Mattman93]

Forward half gameplan... And yet the opposition half backs get to roam up the ground, playing without an opponent all day.

View attachment 2274488

The midfield, whilst beaten, for the most fared somewhat better than could have been expected. Halfway through the third quarter West Coast were ahead in both contested possessions and inside 50s.

Yet the team were outscored 11 goals to 2 from stoppage as GWS were allowed to play their half backs as additional midfielders whose attacking runs forward were never tracked.

Uncontested possessions were -118; the 4th worst differential of that statistic for West Coast in the last 15 years.


With so many players running unopposed through the middle, the GWS forwards were able to get super-aggressive ahead of the ball without worrying about the potential risk of turnover, creating an outnumber in their favour almost every time they went forward.

The Giants had 19 shots on goal that originated from possession sources inside their own defensive half.


It's not like this was a surprise tactic from GWS either - it pretty much is their identity.

Those half back accumulators should have been shut down to the highest degree possible. Instead they were able to do as they pleased whilst Eagles' forwards stayed in their position, applying pressure towards the ball that was soon extinguished by the release of the man who had run off them.

Hopefully, A.McQualter goes through the tapes, sees the above issue undermining his desired gameplan, and puts something in place to ensure greater accountability and prevent so many loose opposition numbers from impacting higher up the ground.

Address that and suddenly much of the rot will become far easier to manage.



On individuals, there was an all-too-familiar feeling, that has happened far too many times in recent years, of players showing up, but not turning up to play.

T.Kelly, on the road and opposed by the 192cm T.Green, did as he has done in the past and became a spectator rather than compete against a bigger body. 6 disposals and 0 tackles at half time aren't acceptable.

O.Allen, after his self-inflicted week of being the media villain, showed little in the way of a response that will endear supporters. No goals, 3 score involvements, and his defending opponent was the most dominant player in that area of the ground.

T.Cole didn't even touch the ball in the first half at all - indeed all he did was give away a free kick and let his direct opponent get 8 score involvements in the same period. That's comical.

There were plenty more examples, where the experienced cohort seemingly refused to dig deep when faced with the task that was required. Those three names are simply specified due to how glaring their ineptitude was when each of the lines they were in was crying out for some form of positive example to follow.


But a corner certainly appears to have been turned in terms of squad output. Increasingly, performance is being led by the youth of the side rather than the leadership, which obviously leads to serious questions about the relevance and future of those older players - if they are not providing leadership, then all they are effectively doing is preventing another young player from getting a chance to develop.

Because, with the desperate state the club is in, there are at least some of positives to see in the kids.


T.Gross looks like a natural stoppage player with genuine midfield awareness. 17 disposals, led the team in clearances, score involvements, was second for inside 50s and kicked a goal. It says much about where the club is at when an 18-year old in their first match leads the midfield. If fit, he needs to play every game now.

H.Reid showed a maturity that I was starting to think was beyond him - didn't get sucked into arguing or wrestling or playing with the crowd (not that there was any) and just got back to basics and executed the best option when in possession. You could see his confidence returning the longer the match went on. Led the team for disposals; hopefully, just playing football, and not worrying about all the other stuff, is just what he needs.

A.Reid keeps showing signs that he has potential to become a seriously good player in years to come. Reads the ball well in the air and positions himself remarkably well in one-on-one contests for a player who is currently conceding a good amount of mass and strength against his opponents. Just needs to fix up that set shot kicking.

In J.McGovern's absence, it was R.Ginbey who marshalled the defence. Ten matches ago, his selection was being questioned. Now plays on bigs and smalls and looks like a lock for the next 10 years. Had twice the number of defensive spoils as the next best in the team did, in addition to 8 intercepts and over 500 metres gained. He still hasn't even played 50 games.

Since R.Maric has moved into defence, he has led the club in disposals, rebound 50s and metres gained. Defensively, he still has a lot to learn, but his offensive potential from that position is a weapon.

C.Hall showed that the match against Brisbane was not an aberration - only L.Baker and T.Green had more contested possessions from both teams. Needs to work on his tank as opponents were able to get away from him on the spread too easily on too many occasions. With his size and strength around stoppage, there is more than enough to work with there.

S.Brock was a key in a defence that was on the receiving end of a 9 goal day from J.Hogan - yet given the circumstances and the ease of how GWS were able to get possession forward in numbers, I feel he was actually one the team's better performers on the day in his debut. Used the ball well and had a game-high 9 intercepts.

J.Williams continues to quietly do what he does. Provides a contest, takes marks, takes on the ruck when asked and kicks truly in front of goal - what else can you ask for from a forward getting junk supply? Still only 21, scored multiple goals, and doing a lot more than the wantaway captain is right now.

H.Davis had a debut off the substitute chair, but did more in his limited minutes than many of his more experienced team-mates managed across the entire game.



The beginnings of the next core group are starting to take shape, but the harvest remains years away.

All the while, the hard work of dealing with the ossified parts has been left for a novel coach to pull a rabbit out of a hat.

Presumably it's a personnel issue as much as tactical; not sure how Long and Owies would ever be able go with Ash and Whitfield for sustained periods, especially with the scrambled sub-par entries coming in priming them for re-bound. (Also begs the question why Owies was such a desirable target for us.)

But hell, I've been pleading for us to target front half ground ball dominant pressure players for years. It's why I was so keen on Hannaford with our first pick. And then, guess who, it's GWS who target him.

Read on the Brisbane game? (assuming you were there live).

 

[Bender_]

Remember when Ginbey couldn't mark or kick?

 

[WeaponX]

I'm looking at what Billy Donovan did with the Bulls ( cutting loose Derozan, Lavine, Caruso ) and fans were saying what did they get for those trades ?? the answer was youth with a passion to play a fast style and a determination to win. I think we should just go with all youth and forget playing guys who aren't going to be there for our next finals campaign. Get games into Shanahan, Champion, Bo Allen and see if they have "It". We are not going to make the finals and by going with this youth policy we should get at least one priority pick due to the hard losses incurred, we fans are just going to have to suck it up.

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Amazing number of clearances given we got so smashed in the ruck.



Oh, it's because we actually played midfielders who specialise in clearances, even if it is their first and 5th game respectively...

 

[Happy Mastenator]

Remember when Ginbey couldn't mark or kick?

We had 40 1%'ers as a team. He had 10 of them (25%).

Imagine the destruction he'd wreak if we actually had some pressure in the midfield and a competent defence around him, he could just wreck every attack.

EDIT: Reminds me a lot of Beau Waters, not exact style, but just the unit who destroys teams.

 

[HitTheNailOnTheHead]

Anyone who thinks Sumich would be a worse coach than this guy is on some pretty good gear.

 

[jdisc]

Anyone who thinks Sumich would be a worse coach than this guy is on some pretty good gear.

how so suma

 

[plays tall 1]

As others have said, the form of some of the young guys was a real positive.

But watching the game, and seeing the pathetic efforts (and lack of effort) by senior players to apply pressure I couldn’t help but wonder if there has been a fracturing of morale and camaraderie amongst the playing group. Perhaps some of the senior players resent the terms offered to Baker and Graham and the standing they’ve been given within the playing group, and are unhappy at the terms available to senior players Allen and Kelly.

 

[Bender_]

Anyone who thinks Sumich would be a worse coach than this guy is on some pretty good gear.

Brad Hardie approves of your post and would also like to mention Lemon Chicken.

 

[HitTheNailOnTheHead]

how so suma

Lots of reasons. Someone else has mentioned the following.

"Peter Sumich was right.. we should have spent pre season and this season on skills rather than game plan… no point having a plan if you can’t execute it."

I've always thought Sumich was a great coach and especially good with the younger players in their development. I was so disappointed when he lost out to Simpson for the role.

 

[squashface]

Anyone who thinks Sumich would be a worse coach than this guy is on some pretty good gear.

You mean every single football administration in the comp? Because last time I checked - nobody has even been remotely close to hiring him as senior coach.

 

[FKASC]

I couldn’t help but wonder if there has been a fracturing of morale and camaraderie amongst the playing group.

There’s been fractured morale for a long time now. No other way a group of premiership players can suddenly become entirely ineffective over the course of a year or two.

 

[HitTheNailOnTheHead]

You mean every single football administration in the comp? Because last time I checked - nobody has even been remotely close to hiring him as senior coach.

That's a pretty stupid argument. He hasn't applied for any recently. "Last time I looked" ... yeah right.

 

[jdisc]

I think we found Suma's burner account

 

[WCE_phil]

Sumich is a great development and assistant coach. He really is great at developing youth and getting players involved and on the same page.

He is however not an AFL senior coach. He just doesn't have the ability to run the show particularly the off field side of things, media, public speaking and he's now too old school with his motivational techniques.

 

[FKASC]

I think we found Suma's burner account

Hit the nail on the head

 

[HitTheNailOnTheHead]

Sumich is a great development and assistant coach. He really is great at developing youth and getting players involved and on the same page.

He is however not an AFL senior coach. He just doesn't have the ability to run the show particularly the off field side of things, media, public speaking and he's now too old school with his motivational techniques.

I know where you're coming from but the biggest contributor to success off the field is success on it. Get the ball through the big sticks often enough and everything else will take care of itself. Also, he handled plenty of media as an assistant.

 

[HitTheNailOnTheHead]

I think we found Suma's burner account

This is pretty juvenile really. Do I retaliate by implying you're McQualter's benny if you defend him when we're sitting 0-10 after 6 more games? The idea that Sumich would waste his time on here dealing with the sort of idiotic commentary you're dishing up is laughable.