Autopsy Round 1, 2025: Positives and Negatives vs Gold Coast

[Broken_Chairs]

dark voodoo curse got placed on us around the time we recruited Kelly, probably some twisted Geelong supporter

Godamn ooga booga bumpkin bullshit

 

[Astro7]

Blaming individual players one game in (especially given the whole team performance)
is completely unrealistic. There's no one scapegoat here.
It might make you feel good but that's not how footy works.

 

[The Dodger]

Blaming individual players one game in (especially given the whole team performance)
is completely unrealistic. There's no one scapegoat here.
It might make you feel good but that's not how footy works.

Yeah individuals might be a stretch but as a group the leadership group / senior players in a young team need to wear it.
It's still frustrating that the 2 experienced players that showed something were the 2 ringers we brought in.

Kelly, Cripps, Gov & Duggan all were either MIA or making critical errors. Duggo with that banana back into the corridor and Gov getting out wrestled by a young key forward and immediately looking for the free kick.
Not a very high bar set for the rest of the group.

 

[Astro7]

Yeah individuals might be a stretch but as a group the leadership group / senior players in a young team need to wear it.
It's still frustrating that the 2 experienced players that showed something were the 2 ringers we brought in.

Kelly, Cripps, Gov & Duggan all were either MIA or making critical errors. Duggo with that banana back into the corridor and Gov getting out wrestled by a young key forward and immediately looking for the free kick.
Not a very high bar set for the rest of the group.

That's why they were brought in? The ringers are leaders with experience, they're Eagles.
Not sure if you know this but the whole team was outplayed all day. They couldn't get the ball. They chased tail all day and then were gassed in the 4th qtr. They were also under intense pressure all game, so MIA and critical errors are the result of all that.
Duggan's kicking is no surprise let's be honest. Wait until Gov goes out injured, then you'll have something to complain about? ((;

 

[The Dodger]

That's why they were brought in? The ringers are leaders with experience, they're Eagles.
Not sure if you know this but the whole team was outplayed all day. They couldn't get the ball. They chased tail all day and then were gassed in the 4th qtr. They were also under intense pressure all game, so MIA and critical errors are the result of all that.
Duggan's kicking is no surprise let's be honest. Wait until Gov goes out injured, then you'll have something to complain about? ((;

Absolutely. However, the thing about Gov is it was the opening play of the game IIRC (or second I50 for Gold Coast?). Hadn't been getting beaten all day and hadn't been chasing tail at that stage. I say this firmly believing Gov is one of our better on field leaders hence the disappointment seeing that first up.
It's what turned me off Kelly last year. Round 2 at home v GWS opening play of the game was a slight movement forward for us that ended up in GWS hands and then they run and take a mark in the pocket for a shot at goal very early in the game. Replay shows Kelly jogging next to the guy at the D50 that then run in to the pocket to take an uncontested mark for the shot. Couldn't have been tired at that stage and it was the in the opening efforts of the game. To me as leaders/ experienced players it's inexcusable and sets an example that its ok.

I'm at the stage with this group where if the player is experienced but is not setting the bar high for effort, I'd rather a younger player given the chance and learn from Baker/Graham where that bar should be. Otherwise, another generation of excuse making will be ushered in. If we lost by 13 - 14 goals with Gov in the team im happy to see what it looks like without him getting beaten by young players and asking for free kicks for pretty standing wrestling in a 1 on 1.

As a club we seem to hold on that "cant go too far the other way" idea. Hawks did it, Richmond (1 game in I know) have don't it without fear. It looks as though getting beaten by 12-13 goals on our home deck with underperforming senior players is better than losing by perhaps a larger margin but with people for who effort is a non negotiable.

As an aside someone put up some figures of Hawthorns 2024 start and I remember watching some of their 2023 games. they ended up losing by 13 goals to teams like Geelong but the first half of the game they had leads and were taking it up to them. As a young team you expect them not to be able to match the better teams over time but end of the first half they are up to their eyeballs in the game. IMO that's where the learning takes place and naturally they will get more physical and stay in games longer. So this not being mentally ready and prepared to commit from the first bounce is getting old hat.

Apologies for the longish reply you probably weren't wanting. They've been annoying me over the 2-3 years with lack of effort early in games when the game isn't over 10 goals away from us.

 

[Lia]

With maybe a couple of exceptions in the midfield I actually do not think that our overall "effort" was that bad in the first half. The midfield was completely smashed by a very good ruckman and three elite mids and that makes it impossible to compete around the ground.

 

[The Dodger]

With maybe a couple of exceptions in the midfield I actually do not think that our overall "effort" was that bad in the first half. The midfield was completely smashed by a very good ruckman and three elite mids and that makes it impossible to compete around the ground.

Fair enough. That's true. Though who's the couple of exceptions? If at least one of them is who I think it is that's kind of what the issue is for me.

 

[Astro7]

Absolutely. However, the thing about Gov is it was the opening play of the game IIRC (or second I50 for Gold Coast?). Hadn't been getting beaten all day and hadn't been chasing tail at that stage. I say this firmly believing Gov is one of our better on field leaders hence the disappointment seeing that first up.
It's what turned me off Kelly last year. Round 2 at home v GWS opening play of the game was a slight movement forward for us that ended up in GWS hands and then they run and take a mark in the pocket for a shot at goal very early in the game. Replay shows Kelly jogging next to the guy at the D50 that then run in to the pocket to take an uncontested mark for the shot. Couldn't have been tired at that stage and it was the in the opening efforts of the game. To me as leaders/ experienced players it's inexcusable and sets an example that its ok.

I'm at the stage with this group where if the player is experienced but is not setting the bar high for effort, I'd rather a younger player given the chance and learn from Baker/Graham where that bar should be. Otherwise, another generation of excuse making will be ushered in. If we lost by 13 - 14 goals with Gov in the team im happy to see what it looks like without him getting beaten by young players and asking for free kicks for pretty standing wrestling in a 1 on 1.

As a club we seem to hold on that "cant go too far the other way" idea. Hawks did it, Richmond (1 game in I know) have don't it without fear. It looks as though getting beaten by 12-13 goals on our home deck with underperforming senior players is better than losing by perhaps a larger margin but with people for who effort is a non negotiable.

As an aside someone put up some figures of Hawthorns 2024 start and I remember watching some of their 2023 games. they ended up losing by 13 goals to teams like Geelong but the first half of the game they had leads and were taking it up to them. As a young team you expect them not to be able to match the better teams over time but end of the first half they are up to their eyeballs in the game. IMO that's where the learning takes place and naturally they will get more physical and stay in games longer. So this not being mentally ready and prepared to commit from the first bounce is getting old hat.

Apologies for the longish reply you probably weren't wanting. They've been annoying me over the 2-3 years with lack of effort early in games when the game isn't over 10 goals away from us.

No probs, enjoyed the read. I agree with some of your notions regarding senior leadership, that 'definitely proved' lack of effort should not be rewarded. Not to be confused with 'perceived' lack of effort, and there's a lot of that going on here! We have more younger depth to play with albeit inexperienced, so don't expect too much. The credits system has fortunately gone. Mini is a different beast. Be interesting to see how he responds with selections v. individual performances going forward.

Fwiw, TK was carrying injuries last year, but played on. I saw much the same sort of performance at the Lions/Optus game, where he was loping way behind his man, who I think ran on, got the ball and was part of a scoring chain. My brother (more a Swans fan and heavily critical of Eagles) said "look how lazy Kelly is?" I said to him, yeh it looks that way, but he's actually carrying an injury and it's the 3rd qtr...

I keep repeating this but it is only 1 game in, the first game of the season with new coach and gameplan. We got completely deconstructed by a good team on the rise against his ex-coach. If we had played a different team first off, would it have been the same performance? If we played the Suns in 3 weeks time, would it be a different performance? Not even the coach expected this, but I'm more interested in seeing how he and the playing group respond to this. I'm more interested in the next few games to see what develops.

I'll get shot down for this, but I think the team is up for it, I think they are harder and faster and in a better place mentally - they just got ambushed 1st game - very deflating. Mini said nothing is locked in yet, it's a work in progress, he'll be changing players positions and fine tuning the game plan through the season. We'll get to see what he's made of (and the playing group) soon enough over a greater sample size. Everyone's learning on the run. It's a tough gig but he seems to have the cahoonies for it?

(The fine print - having said all that, anything can happen, the wheels might fall off and we are right back to early last year and continual dreadful performances? Mini might turn out to be a dud coach? Harley might leave, all that crap! Or we might see positives and steady improvement, we might see some good young players emerge?)

 

[WCE777]

No probs, enjoyed the read. I agree with some of your notions regarding senior leadership, that 'definitely proved' lack of effort should not be rewarded. Not to be confused with 'perceived' lack of effort, and there's a lot of that going on here! We have more younger depth to play with albeit inexperienced, so don't expect too much. The credits system has fortunately gone. Mini is a different beast. Be interesting to see how he responds with selections v. individual performances going forward.

Fwiw, TK was carrying injuries last year, but played on. I saw much the same sort of performance at the Lions/Optus game, where he was loping way behind his man, who I think ran on, got the ball and was part of a scoring chain. My brother (more a Swans fan and heavily critical of Eagles) said "look how lazy Kelly is?" I said to him, yeh it looks that way, but he's actually carrying an injury and it's the 3rd qtr...

I keep repeating this but it is only 1 game in, the first game of the season with new coach and gameplan. We got completely deconstructed by a good team on the rise against his ex-coach. If we had played a different team first off, would it have been the same performance? If we played the Suns in 3 weeks time, would it be a different performance? Not even the coach expected this, but I'm more interested in seeing how he and the playing group respond to this. I'm more interested in the next few games to see what develops.

I'll get shot down for this, but I think the team is up for it, I think they are harder and faster and in a better place mentally - they just got ambushed 1st game - very deflating. Mini said nothing is locked in yet, it's a work in progress, he'll be changing players positions and fine tuning the game plan through the season. We'll get to see what he's made of (and the playing group) soon enough over a greater sample size. Everyone's learning on the run. It's a tough gig but he seems to have the cahoonies for it?
(The fine print - having said all that, anything can happen, the wheels might fall off and we are right back to early last year and continual dreadful performances? Mini night turn out to be a dud coach? Harley might leave, all that crap! Or we might see positives and steady improvement, we might see some good young players emerge?)

Totally agree with your comments, I don't think the wheels are going to fall off completely.
New coach, game plan and players defining their roles and positions in the team, that game against GC was terrible but expecting a better showing this week.
New coach in his press conference looks measured, assured of his plan and what he also expects.
Will be interesting to see if the players respond and the coach has them fired up for a better performance.

 

[Ruben Grubarb]

Absolutely. However, the thing about Gov is it was the opening play of the game IIRC (or second I50 for Gold Coast?). Hadn't been getting beaten all day and hadn't been chasing tail at that stage. I say this firmly believing Gov is one of our better on field leaders hence the disappointment seeing that first up.
It's what turned me off Kelly last year. Round 2 at home v GWS opening play of the game was a slight movement forward for us that ended up in GWS hands and then they run and take a mark in the pocket for a shot at goal very early in the game. Replay shows Kelly jogging next to the guy at the D50 that then run in to the pocket to take an uncontested mark for the shot. Couldn't have been tired at that stage and it was the in the opening efforts of the game. To me as leaders/ experienced players it's inexcusable and sets an example that its ok.

I'm at the stage with this group where if the player is experienced but is not setting the bar high for effort, I'd rather a younger player given the chance and learn from Baker/Graham where that bar should be. Otherwise, another generation of excuse making will be ushered in. If we lost by 13 - 14 goals with Gov in the team im happy to see what it looks like without him getting beaten by young players and asking for free kicks for pretty standing wrestling in a 1 on 1.

As a club we seem to hold on that "cant go too far the other way" idea. Hawks did it, Richmond (1 game in I know) have don't it without fear. It looks as though getting beaten by 12-13 goals on our home deck with underperforming senior players is better than losing by perhaps a larger margin but with people for who effort is a non negotiable.

As an aside someone put up some figures of Hawthorns 2024 start and I remember watching some of their 2023 games. they ended up losing by 13 goals to teams like Geelong but the first half of the game they had leads and were taking it up to them. As a young team you expect them not to be able to match the better teams over time but end of the first half they are up to their eyeballs in the game. IMO that's where the learning takes place and naturally they will get more physical and stay in games longer. So this not being mentally ready and prepared to commit from the first bounce is getting old hat.

Apologies for the longish reply you probably weren't wanting. They've been annoying me over the 2-3 years with lack of effort early in games when the game isn't over 10 goals away from us.

Kelly is hot one week, goes missing the next. You can't build sides when your better players do this. Needs to be moved on, or moved out.

 

[WeaponX]

Blaming individual players one game in (especially given the whole team performance)
is completely unrealistic. There's no one scapegoat here.
It might make you feel good but that's not how footy works.

If your engine isn't firing then how do you expect the vehicle to respond ?

 

[Astro7]

If your engine isn't firing then how do you expect the vehicle to respond ?

Take it to My Car.
You don't throw the engine away, or it's components - you tune and service it.
We could talk in metaphors all day, but it's a bit inaccurate.
Team selection for Lions has been made, we move on.

 

[ziad]

Take it to My Car.
You don't throw the engine away, or it's components - you tune and service it.
We could talk in metaphors all day, but it's a bit inaccurate.
Team selection for Lions has been made, we move on.

You don't enter a car in a supercar race with a 4 cylinder voxall engine either.

 

[Astro7]

You don't enter a car in a supercar race with a 4 cylinder voxall engine either.

No, of course not, because a Voxall engine doesn't exist.
You could use a Vauxhall engine, might work?
But we've only got the car/engine/metaphor we have, regardless of the race.
We only have so many seniors, only so much experience and leadership and only have so many young players ready to play - a new game style with a new coach, all learning their chops. Even yet more patience is required at such an early stage. The team hasn't even developed chemistry yet.

 

[RookiePick]

SynergyTM

 

[HoneyBadger35]

Resource - Player Video Database

Putting this into a spreadsheet for convenience. 2024 is still there in a tab on the bottom of the sheet. I'll update this as much as I can throughout the year. The All Stars game and our match sim against Richmond are now up.

www.bigfooty.com

Alesana ’s video database has now been updated.

 

[ziad]

No, of course not, because a Voxall engine doesn't exist.
You could use a Vauxhall engine, might work?
But we've only got the car/engine/metaphor we have, regardless of the race.
We only have so many seniors, only so much experience and leadership and only have so many young players ready to play - a new game style with a new coach, all learning their chops. Even yet more patience is required at such an early stage. The team hasn't even developed chemistry yet.

Vauxhall no a place I nor auto correct inhabit

 

[Astro7]

Vauxhall no a place I nor auto correct inhabit

Mine filly dint underpants all sew two

 

[ziad]

Mine filly dint underpants all sew two

I am also over round 1

 

[WeaponX]

No, of course not, because a Voxall engine doesn't exist.
You could use a Vauxhall engine, might work?
But we've only got the car/engine/metaphor we have, regardless of the race.
We only have so many seniors, only so much experience and leadership and only have so many young players ready to play - a new game style with a new coach, all learning their chops. Even yet more patience is required at such an early stage. The team hasn't even developed chemistry yet.

Caitlin is that you ?