Autopsy Round 3, 2025: Positives and Negatives vs Fremantle

[Astro7]

Reporter - 'A lot of fans thought Hall was stiff to get dropped'
Mini - 'He was stiff, it was a difficult decision to drop Hall, understanding that we want to reward good performance, but ultimately Graham came back in, and rather than move all the magnets to fit Hall in as well, the balance of the team is always a challenge and something we're working on, so that was the decision we made. But he took it on the chin, and gained some confidence that he can play at AFL level as well..'

Mini - 'not many young players play AFL midfield straight away, it's a hard task, most are more senior players who have been playing a long time, so I think with all our players, Harley included, we want them to be flexible and play multiple roles, I think that's something we'll keep exploring..'

Mini - 'It's a work in progress..'

 

[AnyDanger]

I worry about the way he defends. Yes he was an elite intercepting half bank flank in his underage year, but you barely need to defend at U/18 level.

If we put him in at half back, Hough and Ginbey will need to pick up his man more often than not. We've seen both be pretty offensive this year.

I'd plonk Harley in the forward pocket. At least that way, he might be incentivised to pressure and defend with the chance of earning a free kick for a goal.

Definitely need to change the mix in the middle. I'd argue that our midfield has looked it's worst when Graham is in there. He just makes the entire midfield look too one paced, and his defensive efforts don't make up for his lack of pace.

Drop Long for Reid in the forward line. Bring in Hall, and Gross and move Hewett to a midfield role.

Yeh he could get exposed defensively, but i think it will help him get involved a bit more rather than going to starvation corner in the forward pocket, where we have 30 i50s and he'll just try and sit on blokes heads.

Graham was fine in rd1, average today. Baker and Graham's primary position at Richmond wasn't first choice mids but the dire state of our midfield is meaning theyre attending alot of centre bounces, not ideal, but not much is at the moment.

 

[KERRPOW]

I'll be gentle here, but there are some glaring issues with your current stock.

Was at the ground today, I've never seen a player torch so many scoring chains as one Matt Owies - he's just not very good.

Is Jayden Hunt contracted beyond this year? If so, why?

Oscar Allen is either shot, or doesn't care - either way - big issue.

Tim Kelly, can't be played again - meant to be a leader - sloppy, picks and chooses when he goes - can't have that around a young group.

Found one in Reid (Archer, that is)

"I'll be gentle"

Proceeds to go in dry.

Sadly we just gotta take it.

 

[Coasters7]

The real issue is the senior “role players” not doing enough. The young blokes give it their all and get it wrong occasionally but you can see the future in glimpses. Guys like Hunt and Duggan plus the small forwards are all just keeping the GPS busy, and then Kelly, the “leader” of the midfield jogging around as well.

Graham and Baker try hard, Cole as well, but they really need to be your worst on field players to be a successful side.

 

[braddalzielleoursaviour]

"I'll be gentle"

Proceeds to go in dry.

Sadly we just gotta take it.

Add this post to the positives for the day

 

[garlic munchers]

There is a lot of rot in our club that needs to be removed before see any improvement.

Part of it is the following players
Kelly
Allen
Duggan

They are absolutely butchering our club. I dont mean with disposals but it includes them.
How can your captain in Allen go a whole game and not do anything?

How can Kelly and Duggan constantly butcher handballs and disposals.
It is infecting the rest of our team.

Play the kids
Drop Kelly, drop Duggan and Allen.

Make the tough calls and send a message that attitude and poor disposals won't be tolerated.

If Allen doesn't want to be here it sure is showing.

Agree mostly, but Duggan is being asked to do more than he is capable of……. he is not a midfielders arseh*le and we need to stop running him through there.

 

[Mulldogg]

With the shitty losses and the Harley Reid circus it's somewhat exhausting waiting all week to support the club just to watch games like that.

Really need something from the team in the coming months to show they're on the right track.

Whoever said it’s like three losses in a weekend was spot on too. Carlton lose, Hawks win and we lose.

Future draft hand continues to go to shit along with us being back in 18th spot.

 

[Smotie2]

Agree mostly, but Duggan is being asked to do more than he is capable of……. he is not a midfielders arseh*le and we need to stop running him through there.

Yeah I agree with that.
It's time for some actual.midfielders in there.
Why is the club so afraid to debut them

 

[footballfreak]

Positives
Archer reid
McGovern
Baker
Dewar
Ginbey
Hough
B Williams
J williams

Negatives
Graham adds nothing and we are worse with him in our midfield
Kelly, the sooner he is out of this side the better, offers no leadership
T Cole can’t defend
Noah long had a forgettable day

 

[maverick001]

Our seniors this year have been average at best. Against brissy they showed something but even then their bad moments neutralised all the good they did.

Mini’s decsion making so far is an F grade but it’s also his first three games and he has plenty of time to rectify it.

Tim Kelly needs to go back to the WAFL. You just can’t have a senior player being atrocious one week, good then following and then being trash again.

All our recruits have been putrid. I wasn’t a fan of the baker acquisition and he certainly hasn’t won me over. Love all the toughness but when you can’t nail basic kicks and handball, you essentially become a better version a paddy mccginnity.

Oscar Allen is massive worry now. I’ve rated him higher than jake and while the service has been poor he hasn’t helped his cause. Jake will at least make something go his way with his immense work rate.

The kids in defence I thought were quite good. They all probably had a few bad moments but Maric, Ginbey and Hough are actually playing like 100 gamers down back.

Dewar didn’t start well but in the end it turned out to be a decent game.

Best game for Archer he has had but his set shot kicking really lets him down. Need to get lecca and or JK to come down and work with him

I’ve thought people have gone too early on writing Oscar off but I am beginning to think like you, that if Waterman was playing today he’d still find a way to have an impact.
If Oscar can help get Warner then seeya later

 

[stallon]

The real issue is the senior “role players” not doing enough. The young blokes give it their all and get it wrong occasionally but you can see the future in glimpses. Guys like Hunt and Duggan plus the small forwards are all just keeping the GPS busy, and then Kelly, the “leader” of the midfield jogging around as well.

Graham and Baker try hard, Cole as well, but they really need to be your worst on field players to be a successful side.

Baker is good enough to be a top 10 player in a good side, but he needs players with polish around him. He cant do it on his own.
His best trait is that he can play anywhere and be good due to his work rate and his ground ball ability, not that hes particularly skilled at any role in particular

Agree with the others 100%, they should be player 20-23 not where we have them

 

[maverick001]

Come on mate.

Basic hand ball skill are learnt in grade 5.
If you come into the AFL and can't hit a hand ball 5 metres away consistently you are seriously ****ed.

Reid, Kelly, Duggan, hunt and the list just goes on who can't do this.

It's not talent or youth or inexperience or anything except attitude.

We have a lot of footballer who simply don't give a **** past their pay check.

That’s two dumb posts in a row.
First post - saying we traded pick 3 for Hewett and could’ve had Sheezel. There’s three mistakes in that statement.
And the second post- including Reid as one who can’t handball. There’s a few problems with Harley at present but his disposal is not one of them

 

[maverick001]

Hewett hasn't played in 18months before this year. He is basically starting out as a rookie again. After the horrendous conditions last week coupled with a huge amount of travel, perhaps he didn't pull up as well as expected.

We can't and shouldn't be rushing any part of his return to regular match fitness.

Agreed
If making him sub is just managing his workload all good by me. As long as it’s a once every 5 weeks thing not a once every 2-3 weeks

 

[maverick001]

I'll be gentle here, but there are some glaring issues with your current stock.

Was at the ground today, I've never seen a player torch so many scoring chains as one Matt Owies - he's just not very good.

Is Jayden Hunt contracted beyond this year? If so, why?

Oscar Allen is either shot, or doesn't care - either way - big issue.

Tim Kelly, can't be played again - meant to be a leader - sloppy, picks and chooses when he goes - can't have that around a young group.

Found one in Reid (Archer, that is)

Thanks for your invaluable insights.

 

[Bacchus]

Positives
- Archer Reid showed a fair bit today both in the ruck and forward, going to be a very good player
- Maric showed a fair bit as third tall and sweeper in defence, good player
- Jack Williams showed why he shouldn’t have been dropped
- Hewett gave a bit of midfield spark when he came on
- Ginbey is always good
- Liam Ryan showing class, pace and skill

Negatives
- Oscar Allen terrible, couldn’t get near the ball either forward or back, play him as a big midfielder to get in the game?
- Harry Edwards horrible, has had a long apprenticeship but he’s not getting to the level, Treacy gave him a bath
- Baker, tenacious but he can’t handball or kick, turned the ball over so much
- Graham a role player being asked to play as a key midfielder and he isn’t up to it
- Owies made lots of mistakes, no wonder Carlton didn’t want him

Ugly
- Jeremy McGovern injured again
- Tim Kelly is not a key midfielder but he is being asked to play as one, looks disinterested
- Harley seems lost, doesn’t know what he’s doing, most effective as a burst player but he’s not doing that half the time
- listening to Adam Simpson pontificating as commentator on all the stuff we’re doing wrong, rich coming from the guy
who drove the team off the cliff

The backline is poor, the forward line is poor, but the midfield is absolutely shocking, no idea what can be done in the short term, a long year again

 

[Yeahnahmate]

Positive

• Archer Reid looks great, wasn't just the marks the ground level work for such a young tall is really promising.
• Backline isn't bad and is saving us from some bad losses

Negative - The negative every game this year is going to be we don't have a midfield that can be competitive - because we frankly don't have those players on the list. Agree we need to give ourselves a shot though by at least playing more genuine mids like Hall/Gross and less fowards.

Don't think Harley was a negative at all this week - he'd be looking fine in a better side and is being asked (by some people on the board) to do too much. Had some good moments.

100% agree

 

[Yeahnahmate]

The annoying thing with this game was our unforced errors. We actually started well but handed it back to Freo to get them back in the game. Freo played poorly and I doubt they make finals, we played like a bottom 2 team.

The good thing about McQualter is he knows what the problem is. Said in his press conference that you can't win games if you can't win a contest and execute basic skills. Also said he'll look at personnel changes.

Hopefully next week we see Waterman in, Brock in for Edwards, possible Allen for Gov (if injured) and changes in the middle. I'd drop Kelly and Hunt, bring in Gross and Hall, move Duggan to wing.

The young guys are actually looking pretty solid, just need to drop the senior players that dont/can't perform. I was against trading Oscar, but if this is what he's going to turn in when things don't go his way, send him packing and let A.Reid or J.Williams step up.

Although I agree with most of this - fans mostly rue the turnovers first, but it’s actually the inability to break even in the middle that gives way to limited opportunity to attack in the first place which is the far, far more pressing issue of the two.

Skill errors then within that limited opportunity provided by our prime movers (let’s face it - who are they at the moment) in the centre of the ground just magnifies the turnovers impact to our eyes

 

[Shueygod]

Id say clueless is you mate...

The whole lot of the mids are f... Ing useless this week as well as previous weeks.

As for Harley... He was torched as a mid....and then torched again by Frederick playing as a 'defender'...

At least he can play as an effective forward....sooo put him there.

But hey kudos to you for excepting mediocrity from your side... for your sake I hope they don't drop anyone and we lose by 15 goals next week...

F..ing pissweak

Did I defend the rest of the midfield? Saying 15 disposals and a goal is droppable for a second year player is ridiculous. Mckercher had 19 disposals, Ollie Dempsey had 11 and a goal no one on the north or Geelong board are calling for them to be dropped.

Harley’s performances this year have been above average for a player of his experience, he’s underperforming relative to his talent but that doesn’t make him dropped worthy.

Asking to drop our midfield to play kids, but shifting Harley (who is a kid) seems counterproductive. Either you want to play kids in the middle and take the good with the bad e.g lack of tank to chase the full game, or you want experienced bodies there.

I’d suggest this entire board need to reevaluate their expectations of a 19yo, the hyperbole of his “bad form” based on expectations is ridiculous.

 

[Yeahnahmate]

We cant play all the kids because then we will lose by 100+ every week and itll be 2023 all over again.

Most of these melts are huge overreactions tbh, but its bigfooty so its all good

We can less afford to play kids right now when chasing some half decent performances tbh

I know you agree we should have played Hall but that’s also in direct opposition to your thoughts above. Case in point - we were actually in a game, away, to a far superior opposition that remains undefeated - when we played Hall, a kid, out of ‘necessity’ - and only due to injury of a senior player.

He was the leading contested player on the ground. So - in some cases like this one here, playing the kids is actually an upgrade on team performance. Like right now. I think the same will go for say - Gross in for Kelly.

Do you think Dewar, A.Reid, etc would have shown as much if we couldnt do anything in the midfield for the last 5 mins of every quarter and the entire last quarter?

Not suggesting we do - but I actually believe if we dropped Kelly and Duggan for Gross and Hall, the players you mentioned would actually get more opportunity. Dewar certainly did last week off Hall’s superior extraction out of the middle of the ground.

 

[Yeahnahmate]

I'll be gentle here, but there are some glaring issues with your current stock.

Was at the ground today, I've never seen a player torch so many scoring chains as one Matt Owies - he's just not very good.

Is Jayden Hunt contracted beyond this year? If so, why?

Oscar Allen is either shot, or doesn't care - either way - big issue.

Tim Kelly, can't be played again - meant to be a leader - sloppy, picks and chooses when he goes - can't have that around a young group.

Found one in Reid (Archer, that is)

All true, can’t actually argue.

I’ll be gentle here also, your team still blows.

Add a likely coach sacking to your quest for a flag this year - as you again scramble just to make finals

 

[stallon]

I know you agree we should have played Hall but that’s also in direct opposition to your thoughts above. Case in point - we were actually in a game, away, to a far superior opposition that remains undefeated - when we played Hall, a kid, out of ‘necessity’ - and only due to injury of a senior player.

Its not in direct opposition to what I said. We cant play ALL the kids, we can play some. I wanted Long out for Hall, with Graham/Kelly/Hewett/Reid to rotate forward to help cover Longs role. Thats the same amount of kids in the side.

He was the leading contested player on the ground. So - in some cases like this one here, playing the kids is actually an upgrade on team performance. Like right now. I think the same will go for say - Gross in for Kelly.

Gross and Hall in is probably leaving us too light in the middle.
Hewett or Reid arent up to playing full games in the middle yet, and neither is Hall or Gross. 4 of them in the same side is just ASKING to lose by 100+.

Not suggesting we do - but I actually believe if we dropped Kelly and Duggan for Gross and Hall, the players you mentioned would actually get more opportunity. Dewar certainly did last week off Hall’s superior extraction out of the middle of the ground.

They might get more opportunity for the first part of each quarter, but they wouldnt have the legs to compete for the entire game like Graham or Duggan do, and therefore we would get next to nothing done late in each quarter.

We would just get ran over late in every quarter, especially in the last quarter, and end up getting thrashed every week.
If we arent in games at all that'd be quite demoralising. Shades of 2023 where it felt like next to 0 development happened other than Hough as the backman getting experience.

You arent advocating for getting thrashed each week just to get the kids in are you?
We really need to not be getting smashed, we have to be past that

Just bring Hall in to do what I wanted originally, and Gross as sub maybe, but probably not. Then get Allan in for Hunt.
Thats 2 kids, Brock can replace Gov, thats 3 young players in for next week.

 

[Yeahnahmate]

I dont want Graham to be one of our CBA mids at all, as ive said a few times in here now. I want him playing HFF, coming up to stoppages to do defensive jobs on whichever oppo mid is going good.

Yep

 

[Yeahnahmate]

Its not in direct opposition to what I said. We cant play ALL the kids, we can play some. I wanted Long out for Hall, with Graham/Kelly/Hewett/Reid to rotate forward to help cover Longs role. Thats the same amount of kids in the side.

Gross and Hall in is probably leaving us too light in the middle.
Hewett or Reid arent up to playing full games in the middle yet, and neither is Hall or Gross. 4 of them in the same side is just ASKING to lose by 100+.

They might get more opportunity for the first part of each quarter, but they wouldnt have the legs to compete for the entire game like Graham or Duggan do, and therefore we would get next to nothing done late in each quarter.

We would just get ran over late in every quarter, especially in the last quarter, and end up getting thrashed every week.
If we arent in games at all that'd be quite demoralising. Shades of 2023 where it felt like next to 0 development happened other than Hough as the backman getting experience.

You arent advocating for getting thrashed each week just to get the kids in are you?
We really need to not be getting smashed, we have to be past that

Just bring Hall in to do what I wanted originally, and Gross as sub maybe, but probably not. Then get Allan in for Hunt.
Thats 2 kids, Brock can replace Gov, thats 3 young players in for next week.

It’s a balanced enough approach you’ve put forward here and I agree with plenty of it. Was just making the point that when our best options of mid rotations are fit plodders like Graham & Duggan or a going through the motions Kelly we aren’t going to be in contests anyway.

I still think we’d have got it going forward more with Hall + Gross in this week - but I definitely see your point for sure that there will be a drop off in overall / sustainable output if we play too many kids who don’t have the tanks yet to perform across 4Q.

It’s just a pity at present that they have more talent already than senior players who only have their ability to run games out to grimly hold on to their gigs at the moment. Can’t wait until this wave of kids genuinely comes up to the level because they are better than the horrible midfield brigade we’ve currently got playing

 

[stallon]

It’s a balanced enough approach you’ve put forward here and I agree with plenty of it. Was just making the point that when our best options of mid rotations are fit plodders like Graham & Duggan or a going through the motions Kelly we aren’t going to be in contests anyway.

I still think we’d have got it going forward more with Hall + Gross in this week - but I definitely see your point for sure that there will be a drop off in overall / sustainable output if we play too many kids who don’t have the tanks yet to perform across 4Q.

It’s just a pity at present that they have more talent already than senior players who only have their ability to run games out to grimly hold on to their gigs at the moment. Can’t wait until this wave of kids genuinely comes up to the level because they are better than the horrible midfield brigade we’ve currently got playing

The main thing im getting at is dont rush to make changes, I know bigfooty wants half the squad out one week, but then next week when we get 10+ goals against us in the last quarter theyll be wanting most of those senior players back in again.
Mini needs to give the players a few weeks to see if they can work through it, and try a few different players in different positions, eg Baker to the middle that we saw last week.

I think we have seen enough to know that we need Hall in at least(at least until Yeo is back), and if Allan is close to a debut why not bring him in for someone underperforming, even if for no other reason than just to make a point to the senior guys?
I dont know how we reasonably fit in Gross tbh, he probably has to push out Cripps or Owies off HFF, or wait for injuries.

 

[Yeahnahmate]

The main thing im getting at is dont rush to make changes, I know bigfooty wants half the squad out one week, but then next week when we get 10+ goals against us in the last quarter theyll be wanting most of those senior players back in again.
Mini needs to give the players a few weeks to see if they can work through it, and try a few different players in different positions, eg Baker to the middle that we saw last week.

I think we have seen enough to know that we need Hall in at least(at least until Yeo is back), and if Allan is close to a debut why not bring him in for someone underperforming, even if for no other reason than just to make a point to the senior guys?
I dont know how we reasonably fit in Gross tbh, he probably has to push out Cripps or Owies off HFF, or wait for injuries.

Pretty comfortable with the fact Gross pushes out either of those two + can rotate on ball as an option for when the Kelly gang are inevitably spanked inside for another week running