Opinion Matthew Nicks: Adelaide's Coach (Part 3) - The Biggest Loser

[Slime Roy]

We are only coming out of the Tiprat debacle now imo.

We only had to jag one player from all the draft picks we lost and they would be finishing their career right about now.

It was a monumental **** up at the time that changed the course of our club!

And The Swans only just now starting to experience the Tip of "The Tippening"

 

[Mr_Moogle]

Correct.

We came out of the Tiprat stuff remarkably well considering. Well documented first round stuff ups in that recovery too. The list that Rendell and Hamish built prior to that was a very good one. We added some handy players after 2012 as well.

Had its holes which were found out, but a part of that failing was also a coaching group issue.

It was AFTER 2017 that we are still trying to recover from.

Given how what we did is basically legal now, I'd say we got bloody screwed. Even the drug cheats lost less draft picks than us. We didn't even get the benefit of a cleanout in management as they put themselves ahead of the club.

The part that hurts the most is two first rounders coming into their prime were missing from our 2016/17 sides.

 

[WeeBlake]

Tippetgate could have been the difference in us winning the 2017 flag though.

Trigg vetoed a trade to Brisbane which would have got us a first and second.

Then throw in the first rounders we lost and weren’t we interested in Cripps?

Pick right and those first rounders would have definitely been very handy in 2017 and it’s unlikely with those players and the extra experience, we would have finished last.

Plus Dangerfield went public demanding the club explain how it was going to succeed despite the sanctions. If we looked a bit closer to a flag would he still have gone, or waited another year or two?

Edit here is what he decided to tell Fairfax media in 2014 during his last contract with us:

‘‘I’m one of those players who want to know the direction of the club. I’m always asking David Noble (the Crows list manager and strategic boss) about where we are at, because clearly there has been a lot of talk here about the problems we’ve had.

‘‘We lose Kurt Tippett for nothing and then first and second-round draft picks for two years and it makes it a lot more difficult to have success."

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

The biggest problem with the Tippett stuff was that only completely incompetent people would concoct it, and these morons were in charge of our club for years and years making any number of equally brainless decisions across all areas.

 

[El Doederino]

Difference being drafting McArse and Gibbs wasn't illegal, and we were not punished. Every club has failed drafting stories and poor trades.

Tippettgate was illegal and we copped penalties. Not every club has to deal with this

But the point is the punishment was the equivalent of a bad trade (Gibbs) or poor pick (McAsey) so isn’t an excuse for a generation of mediocrity as it’s something that occurs to all clubs from time to time.

 

[El Doederino]

Plus Dangerfield went public demanding the club explain how it was going to succeed despite the sanctions. If we looked a bit closer to a flag would he still have gone, or waited another year or two?

Edit here is what he decided to tell Fairfax media in 2014 during his last contract with us:

‘‘I’m one of those players who want to know the direction of the club. I’m always asking David Noble (the Crows list manager and strategic boss) about where we are at, because clearly there has been a lot of talk here about the problems we’ve had.

‘‘We lose Kurt Tippett for nothing and then first and second-round draft picks for two years and it makes it a lot more difficult to have success."

Dangerfield was always leaving. Tippettgate or not.

 

[Pilchard_Adams]

But the point is the punishment was the equivalent of a bad trade (Gibbs) or poor pick (McAsey) so isn’t an excuse for a generation of mediocrity as it’s something that occurs to all clubs from time to time.

We can each see it differently. A bad trade or draft pick isn't as morally deflating as the club illegally paying one of its players behind the rest of the squads back.

It was also 4 first and second round draft picks. Imagine losing that today? See ya later Curtin, Edwards, Draper and ANB

 

[WeeBlake]

Dangerfield was always leaving. Tippettgate or not.

I think that’s probably true but the question is when.

 

[GROTTO]

I think that’s probably true but the question is when.

As soon as he and his partner decided to want to have children.

I have no issue with him leaving for personal reasons, I had umbrage in the way he screwed us at the negotiation table. He was always worth two 1sts back then and one of those should have been a top 5 pick.

 

[Scorpus]

Dangerfield was always leaving. Tippettgate or not.

If we didn't get sanctioned, so had additional first round picks to add to our 2015 side, and that year made top 4/prelim maybe even a grand final, I think we might have been a chance to convince Dangerfield to sign a two year extension for the chance at success

 

[rocket18]

The part that hurts the most is two first rounders coming into their prime were missing from our 2016/17 sides.

Three first rounders, two lost via sanctions plus the one we should've got for Tiprat.

But the point is the punishment was the equivalent of a bad trade (Gibbs) or poor pick (McAsey) so isn’t an excuse for a generation of mediocrity as it’s something that occurs to all clubs from time to time.

Not at all, we lost 3 first and two seconds and gained zero players.

Even our shocking Gibbs trade we 'only' lost two firsts and gained an average player and a 2nd rounder back.

Our worst trade ever was still in a different league to Tipratgate.

 

[George Kramer]

Three first rounders, two lost via sanctions plus the one we should've got for Tiprat.



Not at all, we lost 3 first and two seconds and gained zero players.

Even our shocking Gibbs trade we 'only' lost two firsts and gained an average player and a 2nd rounder back.

Our worst trade ever was still in a different league to Tipratgate.

Plus we suffered from an unbalanced list age and experience profile

 

[Scorpus]

Plus we suffered from an unbalanced list age and experience profile

We also had to trade Bernie Vince out to get back into the draft for Matt Crouch when without the sanctions we would have had more draft currency to get him without losing players

 

[Cromulant]

Given how what we did is basically legal now, I'd say we got bloody screwed. Even the drug cheats lost less draft picks than us. We didn't even get the benefit of a cleanout in management as they put themselves ahead of the club.

The part that hurts the most is two first rounders coming into their prime were missing from our 2016/17 sides.

I mean from that perspective we got screwed for sure. Which makes what we did even more impressive.... to a point.

Then it's all gone very sour.

 

[crows dude]

As soon as he and his partner decided to want to have children.

I have no issue with him leaving for personal reasons, I had umbrage in the way he screwed us at the negotiation table. He was always worth two 1sts back then and one of those should have been a top 5 pick.

He was a Free Agent. If we let him go to the cats via the free agency instead of a trade we would have gotten a compo 1 or 2 band pick back. Never a top 5. So we did the best we could. Got a first, 2nd and a 3rd for him.

 

[Scorpus]

He was a Free Agent. If we let him go to the cats via the free agency instead of a trade we would have gotten a compo 1 or 2 band pick back. Never a top 5. So we did the best we could. Got a first, 2nd and a 3rd for him.

If we had taken Charlie Curnow instead of Wayne Milera I reckon there would be fewer complaints about what we got for Dangerfield.

 

[GROTTO]

He was a Free Agent. If we let him go to the cats via the free agency instead of a trade we would have gotten a compo 1 or 2 band pick back. Never a top 5. So we did the best we could. Got a first, 2nd and a 3rd for him.

It was always in the Cats best interest to facilitate a deal as another Vic Club would have selected him earlier if he "walked" to the draft.

IIRC one of the reasons we didnt get another 1st for him is because they had already traded out a future 1st.

 

[GROTTO]

If we had taken Charlie Curnow instead of Wayne Milera I reckon there would be fewer complaints about what we got for Dangerfield.

IIRC Curnow had some "concerning personal issues" off field prior to the draft?

Anyways here is the list of players around the Milera pick we could have easily have chosen instead.

 

[cm_perfect]

That’s a bit much

Could also say the same about the Gibbs trade and what we gave up for him

Ditto McAsey

Correct.

We came out of the Tiprat stuff remarkably well considering. Well documented first round stuff ups in that recovery too. The list that Rendell and Hamish built prior to that was a very good one. We added some handy players after 2012 as well.

Had its holes which were found out, but a part of that failing was also a coaching group issue.

It was AFTER 2017 that we are still trying to recover from.

This was not due to our incompetence in drafting/trading players.

Remarkably well?

This was a shitshow of a business decision that cost us 2 x first round draft picks (2012,2013) and 2 x second round draft picks (2012, 2013).

2016 onwards would have been a very different side.

I think you are downplaying the medium/long term impact on the list after losing those draft picks.

 

[GROTTO]

This was not due to our incompetence in drafting/trading players.

Remarkably well?

This was a shitshow of a business decision that cost us 2 x first round draft picks (2012,2013) and 2 x second round draft picks (2012, 2013).

2016 onwards would have been a very different side.

I think you are downplaying the medium/long term impact on the list after losing those draft picks.

Thats not even also getting into how we butchered the 2016 draft taking Gallucci ahead of players like Hayward.

 

[Scorpus]

IIRC Curnow had some "concerning personal issues" off field prior to the draft?

Anyways here is the list of players around the Milera pick we could have easily have chosen instead.

View attachment 2192011

We should have been "concerned" about passing over a much better player due to these "issues"

 

[GROTTO]

We should have been "concerned" about passing over a much better player due to these "issues"

The irony being that we ignored any off filed issues to land Carey at the Crows back in the 2000s.

AFL draft prospect faces police charges

Less than a week before the AFL draft, highly-rated Geelong Falcons player Charlie Curnow has allegedly refused a breath test.

www.sbs.com.au

 

[Pilchard_Adams]

But the point is the punishment was the equivalent of a bad trade (Gibbs) or poor pick (McAsey) so isn’t an excuse for a generation of mediocrity as it’s something that occurs to all clubs from time to time.

It was 4 draft picks. Dont you think that adding in the Tippett sanctions to the average chance a draft pick fails means we were much further behind over that period of time than other clubs?

Plus the sanctions were a 100% chance off loss. At least when drafting McAsey or trading for Gibbs there was the chance it succeeds.

 

[GreyCrow]

It was always in the Cats best interest to facilitate a deal as another Vic Club would have selected him earlier if he "walked" to the draft.

IIRC one of the reasons we didnt get another 1st for him is because they had already traded out a future 1st.

Not yet they hadnt. They wanted it for Lachie Henderson

 

[GreyCrow]

IIRC Curnow had some "concerning personal issues" off field prior to the draft?

that he had suffered a knee injury which saw him miss a large part of his final year of under-18s football;[3] and that he had been arrested for refusing a breath test in the week prior to the draft.

( I am going to suggest as a former Geelong Falcon - Geelong may come calling)