January 26th 2025

[South of the Yarra]

Geez. It's like talking to a toddler. Use your words to argue against what I have said.

Youd don't have any relevant points to argue against. I have watched you move from Aboriginal thread to Aboriginal thread with the same rubbish. Targeting the same posters. I remember everything you wrote in a previous thread. I will ask again since you keep avoiding the question. How many Elders have you spoken to, so as to seek what date they see as Invasion Day?

 

[Deliverance]

For those who don't want the date changed, a question about the impact on you if it is changed. Let's say hypothetically in 2026, Australia day becomes Feb 1st. How will that impact your life?

 

[Cmarsh]

For those who don't want the date changed, a question about the impact on you if it is changed. Let's say hypothetically in 2026, Australia day becomes Feb 1st. How will that impact your life?

Why Feb 1st? And what would happen on Feb 1st?

 

[geoffjennings79]

Why Feb 1st?

It's an arbitrary date, that carries no baggage/trauma for anyone, and can be developed with a clean slate to incorporate everyone from indigenous descendants to the latest refugees from Ukraine/Africa/ME/anywhere/everywhere and everyone in between to celebrate our UNITY??

 

[schneebly111]

Why Feb 1st? And what would happen on Feb 1st?

It's an arbitrary date, that carries no baggage/trauma for anyone,

February 1st 1981 – Cricketer Trevor Chappell bowls an underarm ball against New Zealand causing outrage with officials and fans.

 

[campbell]

February 1st 1981 – Cricketer Trevor Chappell bowls an underarm ball against New Zealand causing outrage with officials and fans.

I was at that match in Bay 13.....crowd went bannanas.....Great day.

 

[schneebly111]

Why Feb 1st? And what would happen on Feb 1st?

And to be fair you didn’t answer his question.

If the date of Australia Day was changed (let’s say Feb 22, Steve Irwin’s birthday ) and that was now the new national day, tells us exactly what the negatives of that would be. All the ceremonies, citizenship awards, even the BBQs would shift to that day.

How would that negatively affect you or anyone else

 

[Frank Bunn]

There's intellectual interest in what you say... when did different Aboriginal mobs learn about the light-skinned people coming to their shores, how much communication was there, was WA/NT completely removed from events until much later. However, it does not seem that you are raising these issues in good faith, rather to have a pot shot about Aboriginal history and to diminish the the effects of settlement.

I agree it is interesting. I am trying to inject some rationality into the debate. I don't diminish the effects of settlement but I do question some aspects of history.

The First Fleet landing at Port Jackson in 1788 was not the first encounter between indigenous tribes and Europeans. There were several Dutch explorations that made land before James Cook did in 1770. It goes against all evidence that there was a continent wide system of communication between remotely separated groups that warned each other of the threat from the light skinned people.

It's relevant to the Australia Day discussion because January 26th has been labelled as 'invasion day'. But as I have argued, January 26th 1788 is not relevant to most indigenous groups. Some tribes did not have contact with Europeans until decades later.

 

[CM86]

Why Feb 1st? And what would happen on Feb 1st?

You cannot think of a single reason to oppose it, so you go fishing for an excuse.



This is the problem with this discourse. The same with nuclear.
It's about delaying, preventing and airing grievances towards groups or ideas that they aren't brave enough to stand by.
It's a desire to prevent the acceptance of a people prior to European settlement. It's a 'fear' of a 'slipperyslope', were is Aboriginal people are recognised, it could negatively impact 'our' way of lives.
Any gain for 'them' is coming out of 'our' way of life.


On one side, you have people who want the date changed because of what it means to them and why it has been celebrated.
That Australia didn't begin with European settlement. That the idea of celebrating the atrocities committed etc, is harmful.

On the other side, you have people who are a mix of those who are tricked into thinking it's a 'woke' agenda, are exhausted by it, and then just the racists who view ATSI as subhuman.
They view Australia as empty, until European settlement, other than 'flora and fauna'.
The people on this side don't actually care about working together to find a new date, or a different way of celebrating an multicultural Australia. They just throw up these things as a delay and distraction. Because it prevents any outcomes.


How can logical and empathetic people convince themselves to be part of the latter 'side', in opposition to the former, if not for outside influence from media, social media and targeted campaigns?
Apathy, ignorance.

 

[CM86]

I agree it is interesting. I am trying to inject some rationality into the debate. I don't diminish the effects of settlement but I do question some aspects of history.

The First Fleet landing at Port Jackson in 1788 was not the first encounter between indigenous tribes and Europeans. There were several Dutch explorations that made land before James Cook did in 1770. It goes against all evidence that there was a continent wide system of communication between remotely separated groups that warned each other of the threat from the light skinned people.

It's relevant to the Australia Day discussion because January 26th has been labelled as 'invasion day'. But as I have argued, January 26th 1788 is not relevant to most indigenous groups. Some tribes did not have contact with Europeans until decades later.

But you don't care about any of this.

Your real position, is that there was no 'invasion'.
This is just a distraction to avoid saying it.


You don't even believe that The Stolen Generation was 'bad'.

 

[CM86]

And to be fair you didn’t answer his question.

If the date of Australia Day was changed (let’s say Feb 22, Steve Irwin’s birthday ) and that was now the new national day, tells us exactly what the negatives of that would be. All the ceremonies, citizenship awards, even the BBQs would shift to that day.

How would that negatively affect you or anyone else

The response is that you somehow need to prove that there will be no negatives for anyone, ever.

-"Do you know it won't negatively affect anyone?"-

It's the delay.


-"If it doesn't matter if a different date harms a group of people, why do we need to change it in the first place? Why is one group more important than another?".- Because one is real, the other is a hypothetical designed to continue harm towards a group you oppose.

 

[Cmarsh]

And to be fair you didn’t answer his question.

If the date of Australia Day was changed (let’s say Feb 22, Steve Irwin’s birthday ) and that was now the new national day, tells us exactly what the negatives of that would be. All the ceremonies, citizenship awards, even the BBQs would shift to that day.

How would that negatively affect you or anyone else

If you are going to set an arbitrary date, ie one pulled out of your arse, the question of negative impact becomes ridiculous. That's because advocates of a new date disconnected from any national significance would not achieve the 'unity' they pretend like they want to achieve. The pulled out of your arse approach would do nothing but leave people confused. The hilarious thing is people like you think it's genius.

 

[CM86]

leave people confused.

Great example of what I'm talking about.

Look at the 'harm' it could possibly do to a hypothetical group of people!

-"If it doesn't matter if a different date harms a group of people, why do we need to change it in the first place? Why is one group more important than another?".- Because one is real, the other is a hypothetical designed to continue harm towards a group you oppose.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Nobody had mentioned it before Dutton was asked the question at a press conference.
You are imagining things again.

Herald Sun has a new one this morning saying Australian Open organisers are " under pressure" to celebrate Australia Day

With a call into the IPA

 

[Gough]

Are we really that fragile as a nation that not marking the 26th will lead us into some sort of death spiral?

 

[rank and file]

Herald Sun has a new one this morning saying Australian Open organisers are " under pressure" to celebrate Australia Day

With a call into the IPA

Nick Kyrgios to sing 'True Blue' and doing a welcome campaigners ceremony would work for me.
Danielle Collins in a stockade set up in the tennis precinct,so punters can let off a bit of steam.

 

[Deliverance]

Why Feb 1st? And what would happen on Feb 1st?

I'll answer once you've answered.