List Mgmt. 2024 List management Discussion

[Mat Mann]

This is solely for list management discussion, Trades discussion goes in the trade thread, and Draft prospect discussion goes in it's relevant thread.

Spoiler: Draft Order

Spoiler: Trade/Draft periods

Free Agency - Friday, October 4 and will run until Friday, October 11.
Trade Period - Monday, October 7 and will run until Wednesday, October 16.
National Draft - Round One - Wednesday, November 20 followed by the remaining rounds of the
National Draft - The rest - Thursday, November 21.
Rookie and Pre-Season Draft - Friday, November 22.

 

[craffles]

I'll come & help you drop a big pile of horse shit, in the club rooms of that cheating scum of a club that you barrack for.

You could have just said no.

 

[seasonedsainter]

I'll come & help you drop a big pile of horse shit, in the club rooms of that cheating scum of a club that you barrack for.

' whoa Whoa their cowboy, le'ts not get all rediculous on now .

 

[maanco]

DEFENCE
Key/Tall Defenders

Callum Wilke (28)
Dougal Howard (28)
Josh Battle (24)
Zaine Cordy (27)
James Van Es (18)
Arie Schoenmaker (19)



General/Offensive Defenders
Jack Sinclair (29)
Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera (21)
Jimmy Webster (30)
Liam Stocker (24)
Riley Bonner
Ben Paton (24)
Tom Highmore (25)
Angus Hastie (19)
Angus McLennan (21)
Liam O'Connell (21)

Comments:

• Lacking Quality Tall Key Defender, Wilke is great but is undersized.
• Dougal Howard is serviceable and still has potential to be A grade.
• NGA Key Defenders available to draft in:
  • Lennox Hofmann (190cm) NGA Potential Recruit - Projected draft range - 40 to 60
  • Adrian Cole (195cm) NGA Potential Recruit Projected draft range - 30 to 60
  • Windhager, Clark Hill can play as general defenders if required.
  • Keeler, Caminiti, Sharman could play as tall defenders if required.
• With the depth of General Defenders it appears the uncontracted Ben Paton will be delisted.

MIDFIELD
Midfielders
Jack Macrae (30)
Jack Steele (28)
Mattaes Phillipou (19)
Zak Jones (29)
Brad Crouch (30) (will he retire in Febuary?)
Hunter Clark (25)
Marcus Windhager (21)
Paddy Dow (25)
Seb Ross (29)
Hugo Garcia 19

Wingers / Flankers
Mason Wood (31)
Liam Henry (23)
Brad Hill (31)
Darcy Wilson (19)
Daniel McKenzie (26)
Ryan Byrnes (23)


Comments:

• In 2023 Preseason the Saints were lacking Young Developing Wingers, fast forward 12 months and we have 2 exceptional Wingers that both could move into midfield roles.
• Mattaes at 190cm looks to be the Tall Bull of a Midfielder, with a bit of silk about him that we can build around.
• Lacking explosive developing small goal kicking Midfielder.
• On paper the aging players of Marshall, Steele, Macrae, Crouch, Jones, Wood and Hill could match most premiership quality midfields for talent.

RUCK
Rowan Marshall (28)
Tom Campbell (31)
Max Heath. (22)


Comments:

• Ruck Depth - Was not a Priority in 2023 Draft however it is proving to be an important focus this offseason with Campbell and Likely the undersized pinch hitter Hayes delisted.
• Pinch Hitters include Issac Keeler, Caminiti and Mitch Owens and the uncontracted Jack Hayes.

Forwards
Key Forwards
Max King (24)
Mitch Owens (21)
Jack Hayes (28)
Cooper Sharman (24)
Anthony Caminiti (20)
Tim Membrey (28)
Isaac Keeler (19)


Small Forward
Jack Higgins (25)
Dan Butler (27)
Lance Collard (19)

Best position unclear.
Olli Hotton
Matthew Allison


Forward Comments:

• It would appear that Jack Hayes and Olli Hotton will be delisted.
  • Could there be a small possibility that the Saints are looking to re-rookie list them at the rookie draft.
  • I am certainly hoping Jack Hayes is extended at least as a depth player.
• In 2024 Preseason I said, expect Membrey to be pushed out for the younger Key forwards, the call was one year early. But even still I did not predict a delisting.
• Key Forwards Are stacked with promising developing players.
• Expect in 2025 the forward line will be the weakest position again, with many players still seemingly in the development stage of their careers.
• Small Forward depth and competition is lacking.
• Hill, Wilson and Henry will look to add depth to the small forward/pressure role.
• Wood to Provide Tall Forward depth.

Summary Comments:

• Overall the List is unbalanced from an age and position distribution point of view but in a position to challenge in 2025.
• There appears to be a focus on balance between performance in 2025 and the future.
• Delistings of 8 players suggests moving towards the development stage.
  • Expect the club to use late picks to try and balance the list, with priority positions at the draft to be:
    • Mature key position defenders.
    • Developing Key Defenders.
    • Small Forwards
    • Mature Aged Ruck
    • Best available unless they are general defenders.

Age breakdown.
Top Talent based on year turned 18.

2011 to 2012 - 4 Best 22 players
2013 and 2014 - 8 (4 A grade, 4 Role/Depth) Players
2015 to 2016 - 0 players.
2017 to 2018 - 6 players (5 x 1st Rd draft picks, 1 rookie listed, 2 A grade, 4 best 22)
2019 to 2020 - 4 players ( 1 A-grade, 1 role player, 2 yet to debut)
2021 - 5 players
2022 - 3 players
2023 - 5 players
2024 - 8 players. ( Tbc)
Premiership window:
2025 to 2027 before the retirement of Steele, Marshall, Macrae, Hill, Wood, Sinclair.

2028 - 2029: Change to club leadership
Heavily reliant on leadership, from the next core of Phillipou, King, Higgins, Naz, Owens, Windy, Wilson and Henry of whom will have an average age of 26.

Is 24 too young for Phillipou to be captain?

 

[maanco]

Age breakdown.
Top Talent based on year turned 18.

2011 to 2012 - 4 Best 22 players
2013 and 2014 - 8 (4 A grade, 4 Role/Depth) Players
2015 to 2016 - 0 players.
2017 to 2018 - 6 players (5 x 1st Rd draft picks, 1 rookie listed, 2 A grade, 4 best 22)
2019 to 2020 - 4 players ( 1 A-grade, 1 role player, 2 yet to debut)
2021 - 5 players
2022 - 3 players
2023 - 5 players
2024 - 8 players. ( Tbc)
Premiership window:
2025 to 2027 before the retirement of Steele, Marshall, Macrae, Hill, Wood, Sinclair.

2028 - 2029: Change to club leadership
Heavily reliant on leadership, from the next core of Phillipou, King, Higgins, Naz, Owens, Windy, Wilson and Henry of whom will have an average age of 26.

Is 24 too young for Phillipou to be captain?

2028 Best 22 (under 25 in 2024)

Hoffman, Cole, Schoenmaker
Naz(VC), Keller, Pick 8
Henry, Phillipou (C), Wilson
Owens, King, Sharman
Collard, Caminitti, Higgins

Heath, Pick 7, 2025 F1

Clark, Garcia, Windhager, pick 32, 2026 F1

Emergencies
2027 F1, 2026 F2, 2027 F2, 2025 F2

NOTE: Tasi enters the comp in 2028 and is set to be given 8 first round picks in 2028 and clubs will be given Free agency Compo picks for Players lost.

 

[sammm]

Pardon me for intruding, but you are welcome to buy an essendon membership and rage at Gresham with me.

craffles
thanks from all of us for taking Gresham, you can have him

 

[LH7]

It appears from RTB's comments to the Herald Sun today that Crouch is done and will not be Rookie listed.

Can anyone confirm this?

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/subscribe/news/1/?sourceCode=HSWEB_WRE170_a_GGL&dest=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.heraldsun.com.au%2Fsport%2Fafl%2Fst-kilda-hoping-for-free-agency-sponsorship-boost-akin-to-geelong-and-cotton-on-lyon%2Fnews-story%2F5392ccadeb751bc49e206233dcf2dc5a&memtype=anonymous&mode=premium&v21=HIGH-Segment-2-SCORE

 

[mad-saint-guy]

So here's the state of our list after the first round of the draft

Best 23

B: Webster, Howard, Schoenmaker
HB: Nas, Wilkie, Sinclair
C: Hill, Steele, Wood
HF: Higgins, Sharman, Owens
F: Butler, King, Caminiti

Foll: Marshall, Phillipou, Mecrea
Int: Wilson, Windhager, Henry, Stocker, Clark

The Rest

B: McLennan, Cordy, Hastie
HB: O'Connell, Tauru, Travaglia
C: Byrnes, Carroll, Jones
HF: Hall, *, *
F: Collard, Keeler, ***

Foll: Heath, Dow, Garcia


Funny that we're almost certainly picking up two more defenders. In Carroll, Jones, Dow and Hall we have plenty of C-grade midfield depth so I don't know if there's any need to take a kid in the later rounds of the draft who doesn't have a particularly high ceiling. Elite mid talent is what we needed. Our list is looking very unbalanced though. Will probably grab a backup ruck and a half forward or two.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

DEFENCE
Key/Tall Defenders

Callum Wilke (28)
Dougal Howard (28)
Josh Battle (24)
Zaine Cordy (27)
James Van Es (18)
Arie Schoenmaker (19)



General/Offensive Defenders
Jack Sinclair (29)
Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera (21)
Jimmy Webster (30)
Liam Stocker (24)
Riley Bonner
Ben Paton (24)
Tom Highmore (25)
Angus Hastie (19)
Angus McLennan (21)
Liam O'Connell (21)

Comments:

• Lacking Quality Tall Key Defender, Wilke is great but is undersized.
• Dougal Howard is serviceable and still has potential to be A grade.
• NGA Key Defenders available to draft in:
  • Lennox Hofmann (190cm) NGA Potential Recruit - Projected draft range - 40 to 60
  • Adrian Cole (195cm) NGA Potential Recruit Projected draft range - 30 to 60
  • Windhager, Clark Hill can play as general defenders if required.
  • Keeler, Caminiti, Sharman could play as tall defenders if required.
• With the depth of General Defenders it appears the uncontracted Ben Paton will be delisted.

MIDFIELD
Midfielders
Jack Macrae (30)
Jack Steele (28)
Mattaes Phillipou (19)
Zak Jones (29)
Brad Crouch (30) (will he retire in Febuary?)
Hunter Clark (25)
Marcus Windhager (21)
Paddy Dow (25)
Seb Ross (29)
Hugo Garcia 19

Wingers / Flankers
Mason Wood (31)
Liam Henry (23)
Brad Hill (31)
Darcy Wilson (19)
Daniel McKenzie (26)
Ryan Byrnes (23)


Comments:

• In 2023 Preseason the Saints were lacking Young Developing Wingers, fast forward 12 months and we have 2 exceptional Wingers that both could move into midfield roles.
• Mattaes at 190cm looks to be the Tall Bull of a Midfielder, with a bit of silk about him that we can build around.
• Lacking explosive developing small goal kicking Midfielder.
• On paper the aging players of Marshall, Steele, Macrae, Crouch, Jones, Wood and Hill could match most premiership quality midfields for talent.

RUCK
Rowan Marshall (28)
Tom Campbell (31)
Max Heath. (22)


Comments:

• Ruck Depth - Was not a Priority in 2023 Draft however it is proving to be an important focus this offseason with Campbell and Likely the undersized pinch hitter Hayes delisted.
• Pinch Hitters include Issac Keeler, Caminiti and Mitch Owens and the uncontracted Jack Hayes.

Forwards
Key Forwards
Max King (24)
Mitch Owens (21)
Jack Hayes (28)
Cooper Sharman (24)
Anthony Caminiti (20)
Tim Membrey (28)
Isaac Keeler (19)


Small Forward
Jack Higgins (25)
Dan Butler (27)
Lance Collard (19)

Best position unclear.
Olli Hotton
Matthew Allison


Forward Comments:

• It would appear that Jack Hayes and Olli Hotton will be delisted.
  • Could there be a small possibility that the Saints are looking to re-rookie list them at the rookie draft.
  • I am certainly hoping Jack Hayes is extended at least as a depth player.
• In 2024 Preseason I said, expect Membrey to be pushed out for the younger Key forwards, the call was one year early. But even still I did not predict a delisting.
• Key Forwards Are stacked with promising developing players.
• Expect in 2025 the forward line will be the weakest position again, with many players still seemingly in the development stage of their careers.
• Small Forward depth and competition is lacking.
• Hill, Wilson and Henry will look to add depth to the small forward/pressure role.
• Wood to Provide Tall Forward depth.

Summary Comments:

• Overall the List is unbalanced from an age and position distribution point of view but in a position to challenge in 2025.
• There appears to be a focus on balance between performance in 2025 and the future.
• Delistings of 8 players suggests moving towards the development stage.
  • Expect the club to use late picks to try and balance the list, with priority positions at the draft to be:
    • Mature key position defenders.
    • Developing Key Defenders.
    • Small Forwards
    • Mature Aged Ruck
    • Best available unless they are general defenders.

Did the draft address all your concerns here?

 

[Saint believer]

 

[maanco]

Did the draft address all your concerns here?

Did St Kilda read my post haha.

A few differences but largely are great outcome for the club from a positional balance perspective with an eye firmly on future success rather than immediate.

 

[stavro#4]

 

[my name was taken]

Think there should be more than a few current players responding to this draft haul.

Of the seniors, Webster, Butler and Jones are under the pump. Stocker and Dow looking more like stop gaps (Cordy was already in this position) unless they start firing.

Clark? Produced numbers late in the season but seems to always be limited ToG. It's clear we've drafted to a game plan of speed and endurance. If he keeps winning inside ball he just needs to up his endurance.

Byrnes? Now stocked with high effort guys who can also run.

Caminiti? Addition of 2 new swing men, hammer is a bit taller and maybe pinch hitting in the ruck is his point of difference.

And all of last year's draftees with exception to Wilson will be looking over their shoulder.

All I care for is they all stay healthy to compete for spots, we have already lost players that fell behind due to injury and it's always sad.