2nds 2024 Adelaide Crows SANFL thread

[Magma]

Why does the SANFL insist on us and port not being able to field a strong side?

Keep the rules for finals about games played, but we shouldn't need to field a squad of top ups.

the sanfl has over the years increased the amount of money the afl clubs are allowed to pay sanfl contracted players. how many clubs do you think have strong sides? just like the 8 other clubs, it's difficult to attract players who are okay with putting in the time and effort to train and play at sanfl clubs vs the money on offer.

 

[George Kramer]

The new father-son bidding rules won't come in this season

They're just hinting they will so that they can get them through the following season but clubs appear to have a win

I don’t think it will be a problem for us if it did, actually help us. I’m no draft watcher but looks like Welsh isn’t going to be a first rounder anyway. It will make Gold Coast, Brisbane, GWS and Carlton pay up for their haul this year.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

The cost of flying a team interstate at least three hours one-way would be far greater than that of other reserves sides based on the east coast, and even South Australia – a geographical issue impossible to overcome.

And should they stay, among the Eagles’ requests would be greater access to recruiting concessions to help strengthen their WAFL side, given their poor form in recent years.

Ideally, the club would source the players from interstate in an attempt to prevent poaching mature-aged players from other clubs. Another of the biggest disincentives for West Coast voting in favour of a national reserves competition, is the idea of flying out semi-professional top-up players across the country essentially every second week of the season; hardly a feasible concept when many of them have full-time jobs.

“Like we are seeing with the South Australian clubs – I don’t think the AFL are welcoming with open arms and throwing heaps of resources behind clubs that aren’t in the VFL at the moment.

 

[chazwazza]

No wonder Freo are happy with Peel Thunder.
It seems AFL clubs complain when their reserves teams are doing shit and in the case of Port even when they’re proven to be successful with the model they fought for ten years ago.

So why don’t we hear Melbourne, Essendon, Collingwood and Carlton complaining how unfair it all is too?

 

[Magma]

the biggest hurdle for a reserves comp was alaays who was going pay for it. Why would the afl pay for the other 4 teams when they already have 14 in the one comp?

 

[Mostyn]

We could have picked up 2 players in the MSD that we chose not to take. Don't blame the SANFL for everything.

You're suggesting we should have picked players just to play SANFL?

I probably agree, but it's ridiculous we're forced to draft players into our list just to be able to field a vaguely competitive reserves team.

 

[Mostyn]

I'd be happy if our reserves team never played finals at all. Don't award us points when we win. None of that is relevant.

But we need our developing players having good seasoned footballers playing along side them, or their development will be stunted.

Anyone arguing that the current system is already perfect for player development doesn't have to look far to see how wrong they are

 

[George Kramer]

I'd be happy if our reserves team never played finals at all. Don't award us points when we win. None of that is relevant.

But we need our developing players having good seasoned footballers playing along side them, or their development will be stunted.

Anyone arguing that the current system is already perfect for player development doesn't have to look far to see how wrong they are

Right, so in the previous 3 years when we were a strong side, has that translated to good player development? How many of our draftees over that period have kicked on? Worrell? Nank? Who else?

What about in the AFL the younger players which have developed well? Max? Soligo?

There is so much wrong with our development that we control that we stuff up ourselves. Blaming the SANFL is just a cop out for our poor development and drafting. How about Nicks play draftees in the positions they were drafted for for example. How about Nicks give Taylor a game instead of Murphy. How about Nicks play Dowling/Pedlar/Schoenberg in the middle?

 

[GreyCrow]

#SackGoddenAgain

 

[BACCS]

Genuinely curious as to why people think Godden is the problem. Wasn't he voted best development coach in the AFL in 2022? Isn't he largely just putting players where Nicks wants them and trying to play to the AFL gameplan? It's not a surprise we tend to make finals in the SANFL when we have small injury lists.

I can't imagine he prefers putting top ups in important positions over AFL listed players as it hinders their development (which is his job and would have KPIs associated with that) and ability to win SANFL games (which is important for confidence and hence development).

 

[1970crow]

Genuinely curious as to why people think Godden is the problem. Wasn't he voted best development coach in the AFL in 2022? Isn't he largely just putting players where Nicks wants them and trying to play to the AFL gameplan? It's not a surprise we tend to make finals in the SANFL when we have small injury lists.

I can't imagine he prefers putting top ups in important positions over AFL listed players as it hinders their development (which is his job and would have KPIs associated with that) and ability to win SANFL games (which is important for confidence and hence development).

On what basis do you reckon other clubs could judge his development ability?. With all our high end draft picks stagnating (at best), what evidence is there that we do development adequately, let alone well. That award is a laugh.

 

[Mostyn]

Genuinely curious as to why people think Godden is the problem. Wasn't he voted best development coach in the AFL in 2022? Isn't he largely just putting players where Nicks wants them and trying to play to the AFL gameplan? It's not a surprise we tend to make finals in the SANFL when we have small injury lists.

I can't imagine he prefers putting top ups in important positions over AFL listed players as it hinders their development (which is his job and would have KPIs associated with that) and ability to win SANFL games (which is important for confidence and hence development).

He was also voted best development coach last year.

Development Coach of the Year - AFLCA Awards - AFL Coaches Association

aflca.com.au

I guess he will struggle for that award this year ...

 

[1970crow]

He was also voted best development coach last year.

Development Coach of the Year - AFLCA Awards - AFL Coaches Association

aflca.com.au

I guess he will struggle for that award this year ...

Why? Our development is no different to how it was when he won. Or maybe that’s just a stupid award where nobody can realistically compare those nominated

 

[bigman]

Having watched many SANFL games over the years there are three major problems affecting the performance of our team:

1. The umpiring - each weak we get screwed over with double, triple or even quadruple frees to opposition. Either we are that bad at tackling or basic skills or we get screwed over each week. Dont get me started on the bald headed badger!!!

2. The restrictions on our play list cf VFL teams. We are not allowed quality players on our list from other SANFL teams. We often have to get players from the Amateur league or Country Leagues who lack the skills and fitness of the other clubs. We are restricted on who we can bring in from interstate and even how many ex AFL Adelaide players we can have on our list - i think it maybe is one. There have been a few improvements over the years to what is allowed, but the difference between our recruiting and the other SANFL teams is significant.

3. The quality of the top ups particularly when injury hits our AFL squad, results in poorly performed teams that are highly dysfunctional in nature and difficult to get any form of synchronicity into the team play. We often have in some games, 5-12 to ups trying to fit in with our senior players, many of whom are young and inexperienced, resulting in basic errors in skills and poor team play. it must be so difficult for our reserves trying to work out what some of the players are going to do and whether they will spill a mark, miskick a ball etc.

It must be so difficult for coaches like Godden and Wright to work with this haphazard system, let alone the players. Imagine playing in a backline where there are 3-4 top ups and you are trying to beat players like Hosie, McBean and Reynolds. It must make it difficult to impress and play well and force your way into the senior side.

So when development is being questioned Rowey and others coming off the top turnbuckle must realize life is not meant to be easy if your are a Crows development coach. He was so off the mark with Caro last night and his arguments were non sensical. We are being screwed over and it is clear as the nose on your face.

That doesnt mean to say that the coaching staff get off scot free. They have not helped their cause this year by refusing to play players in different positions if out of form eg Gollant, or to get some confidence eg Curtin, or to get some experience playing in the middle, particuarly if theyr played thier junior football there eg playing two top ups in the centre square when we had senior players on the flanks and Bond in the BP etc.

But give us a break the SANFL comp is not designed to give success to AFL teams.

 

[Scorpus]

Having watched many SANFL games over the years there are three major problems affecting the performance of our team:

1. The umpiring - each weak we get screwed over with double, triple or even quadruple frees to opposition. Either we are that bad at tackling or basic skills or we get screwed over each week. Dont get me started on the bald headed badger!!!

2. The restrictions on our play list cf VFL teams. We are not allowed quality players on our list from other SANFL teams. We often have to get players from the Amateur league or Country Leagues who lack the skills and fitness of the other clubs. We are restricted on who we can bring in from interstate and even how many ex AFL Adelaide players we can have on our list - i think it maybe is one. There have been a few improvements over the years to what is allowed, but the difference between our recruiting and the other SANFL teams is significant.

3. The quality of the top ups particularly when injury hits our AFL squad, results in poorly performed teams that are highly dysfunctional in nature and difficult to get any form of synchronicity into the team play. We often have in some games, 5-12 to ups trying to fit in with our senior players, many of whom are young and inexperienced, resulting in basic errors in skills and poor team play. it must be so difficult for our reserves trying to work out what some of the players are going to do and whether they will spill a mark, miskick a ball etc.

It must be so difficult for coaches like Godden and Wright to work with this haphazard system, let alone the players. Imagine playing in a backline where there are 3-4 top ups and you are trying to beat players like Hosie, McBean and Reynolds. It must make it difficult to impress and play well and force your way into the senior side.

So when development is being questioned Rowey and others coming off the top turnbuckle must realize life is not meant to be easy if your are a Crows development coach. He was so off the mark with Caro last night and his arguments were non sensical. We are being screwed over and it is clear as the nose on your face.

That doesnt mean to say that the coaching staff get off scot free. They have not helped their cause this year by refusing to play players in different positions if out of form eg Gollant, or to get some confidence eg Curtin, or to get some experience playing in the middle, particuarly if theyr played thier junior football there eg playing two top ups in the centre square when we had senior players on the flanks and Bond in the BP etc.

But give us a break the SANFL comp is not designed to give success to AFL teams.

I think the cost of playing list restrictions isn't so much on our ability to win (which is irrelevant) but our ability for players to learn in a structured environment

Most weeks we have to field top ups who as you say come from amateur backgrounds. There's no leadership there, no knowledge of an AFL environment, no understanding of AFL structures and gameplan. They are not even part timers, they're less than part timers being thrown onto the field as grunts. And the SANFL forces that to be the case.

What should be happening is that when we cop a few injuries, the next players in are more familiar with the structure and have some experience at the level. Then they can help set up structures on the field, direct players, work with the group. Instead, all of that leadership and setting up structures is left to our bottom few AFL listed players who are most likely to be in the first few years in the system. Now they are having to focus on their game, their skills AND all the structure and positioning work for other players who rarely train with them.

If you look at Collingwood's list they've got multiple players with AFL squad experience. Ben Crocker, Ned Long and Ben Silvagni. Not stars at all, but guys who have been in the system. They've also got a group of players with decent VFL experience. Carlton the same. Ex-AFL players in Liam McMahon, Tom Phillips, Lachie Young and Ned Cahill.

AFL reserves sides in the VFL are allowed 15 open age players on their VFL list, but have restrictions enforcing a certain number of under 22s taking the field (7 per match). They aren't forced into recruiting amateur league players.

 

[Magma]

I think the cost of playing list restrictions isn't so much on our ability to win (which is irrelevant) but our ability for players to learn in a structured environment

Most weeks we have to field top ups who as you say come from amateur backgrounds. There's no leadership there, no knowledge of an AFL environment, no understanding of AFL structures and gameplan. They are not even part timers, they're less than part timers being thrown onto the field as grunts. And the SANFL forces that to be the case.

What should be happening is that when we cop a few injuries, the next players in are more familiar with the structure and have some experience at the level. Then they can help set up structures on the field, direct players, work with the group. Instead, all of that leadership and setting up structures is left to our bottom few AFL listed players who are most likely to be in the first few years in the system. Now they are having to focus on their game, their skills AND all the structure and positioning work for other players who rarely train with them.

If you look at Collingwood's list they've got multiple players with AFL squad experience. Ben Crocker, Ned Long and Ben Silvagni. Not stars at all, but guys who have been in the system. They've also got a group of players with decent VFL experience. Carlton the same. Ex-AFL players in Liam McMahon, Tom Phillips, Lachie Young and Ned Cahill.

AFL reserves sides in the VFL are allowed 15 open age players on their VFL list, but have restrictions enforcing a certain number of under 22s taking the field (7 per match). They aren't forced into recruiting amateur league players.

but this is kind of similar at some other sanfl clubs too. from what i can see, norwood, glenelg, sturt and wwt have a fair few players who have been in the afl system to some degree, most of them are returning players though. but for the rest, most of the teams are made up with youngsters from zones or players from country clubs. some are from like gws and gold coast academies. but it's pretty hard right now for the traditional clubs too the get talented players, especially the further down the ladder you go. westies currently has 1 player at the club to have been on an afl list, and he hasnt played a game for us. victoria has a much bigger talent pool to draw from as well.

it's hard right now for sides outside of a few at the top. i agree that some of the restrictions are probably too harsh, but it also feels like port and the crows are very easily blaming the sanfl too for their own failures. at this point it's just being used as a ploy to get looser restrictions on players. however both have been reasonably consistent finals teams over the years, and in the past the crows did do well with their top ups. sharrad and chris hall were both really good pick ups for the crows side, maybe now they're also just finding it harder to get players to want to play for the reserves.

 

[Scorpus]

but this is kind of similar at some other sanfl clubs too. from what i can see, norwood, glenelg, sturt and wwt have a fair few players who have been in the afl system to some degree, most of them are returning players though. but for the rest, most of the teams are made up with youngsters from zones or players from country clubs. some are from like gws and gold coast academies. but it's pretty hard right now for the traditional clubs too the get talented players, especially the further down the ladder you go. westies currently has 1 player at the club to have been on an afl list, and he hasnt played a game for us. victoria has a much bigger talent pool to draw from as well.

it's hard right now for sides outside of a few at the top. i agree that some of the restrictions are probably too harsh, but it also feels like port and the crows are very easily blaming the sanfl too for their own failures. at this point it's just being used as a ploy to get looser restrictions on players. however both have been reasonably consistent finals teams over the years, and in the past the crows did do well with their top ups. sharrad and chris hall were both really good pick ups for the crows side, maybe now they're also just finding it harder to get players to want to play for the reserves.

It's not a ploy when we are literally unable to have four ex-AFL players on our reserves list like Carlton does, no matter how well run we are. It's the Crows rightfully demanding that we have similar ability to develop our players as the VFL (and WAFL) sides

And like I said, the results are irrelevant. Finals or non-finals isn't what matters. Whether we have made finals in the past doesn't matter when it comes to list rules.

What matters is what happens when we cop a few injuries and need to start relying on our reserves squad for development. The depth in our reserves is completely non existent. We bat 1 or 2 players deep and always have, because the SANFL forces that on us. VFL squads at the AFL teams often have 4-5x the experience and depth we are allowed.

While I don't care about the SANFL clubs at all, I think they are struggling because the league is of a lower standard than the VFL, and that's only worsened since the VFL has partially become the AFL national reserves. The VFL is a better destination for ex-AFL players looking for a second chance, because they can get on AFL reserves lists and perform against clubs of a higher standard.

I don't think we'd find it particularly hard to fill 3 or 4 spots with ex-AFL players if we were allowed

 

[Truck25]

The cost of flying a team interstate at least three hours one-way would be far greater than that of other reserves sides based on the east coast, and even South Australia – a geographical issue impossible to overcome.

And should they stay, among the Eagles’ requests would be greater access to recruiting concessions to help strengthen their WAFL side, given their poor form in recent years.

Ideally, the club would source the players from interstate in an attempt to prevent poaching mature-aged players from other clubs. Another of the biggest disincentives for West Coast voting in favour of a national reserves competition, is the idea of flying out semi-professional top-up players across the country essentially every second week of the season; hardly a feasible concept when many of them have full-time jobs.

“Like we are seeing with the South Australian clubs – I don’t think the AFL are welcoming with open arms and throwing heaps of resources behind clubs that aren’t in the VFL at the moment.

Simple, they get a bye when you play west coast, they only get 19 games in the SANFL so they still play more with a couple of byes in an AFL reserves comp.

 

[sigur]

It's a messy situation.

Best solution I think would be :-
AFL teams can't play finals in the SANFL. Come to the end of the season and the AFL reserves can follow the same schedule as the AFL league players - they can all go on their end of season break at the same time and start preseason training together. If (dare to dream) the crows are in the finals then the reserve players can just keep training and doing match-sim.

SANFL clubs no longer have to worry about coming up in the finals against a stacked AFL reserves side. AFL clubs get the benefit of playing against good quality opposition.

In return the AFL clubs have first pick of delisted AFL players so their top ups aren't spuds, and enough salary cap to lure them. Could also look at a contra deal with the SANFL clubs to take 19 year old players that didn't get drafted - AFL club takes them for 2 years and develops them. If it works out then they are a better chance at getting drafted, if it doesn't work out the SANFL clubs end up with a 21 year old who has spent 2 years in better gyms and with better coaches.

 

[Mutineer]

https://www.themercury.com.au/sport/afl/adelaide-and-port-adelaide-staying-in-sanfl-next-season/news-story/cd156abf6b0074066b94db9a2bfe92cd

​

SANFL to review list restrictions for Port Adelaide, Adelaide after their push for national reserves league​

The SANFL has revealed the next steps in mooted changes to help Port Adelaide and Adelaide be more competitive after peace talks avoided them abandoning the league.



The SANFL has confirmed it will review the list restrictions on Port Adelaide and Adelaide as part of a plan to keep the two clubs’ reserve sides playing in South Australia.
The Advertiser revealed on Thursday the clubs would continue to participate in the SANFL next year on the proviso the league addressed key concerns regarding top-up players and fixture equality.
The two clubs want to field stronger reserves’ sides to help bolster their development programs at the club in-line with the teams in the Victorian Football League.
The SANFL, which has strongly opposed a national reserves competition, confirmed on Friday talks on Wednesday with the Crows, Power and the AFL were productive.
SANFL chief executive Darren Chandler said the league would review the competition rules and “in particular the conditions that apply to the Adelaide and Port Adelaide Football clubs”.
It is expected Adelaide and Port Adelaide will also be given more consideration regarding their fixture requests to better manage their AFL emergencies and holdover players.

“Every year, the SANFL reviews the rules that apply to the Adelaide and Port Adelaide football clubs. This year, the review has been accelerated on the back of the AFL competitive balance review,” Chandler said.

“In reviewing these rules, the league remains committed to ensuring we continue to have the best competition outside of the AFL, and one in which every club can be competitive and have every chance of winning a premiership.

“SANFL has provided its detailed submission to the AFL, highlighting that it does not support a national reserves competition and that it believes the best structure for football in South Australia is to have the two AFL clubs in the SANFL competition.”
Chandler said the league would hold more talks with the other SANFL clubs before making recommendations to the commission for approval for 2025.

If Adelaide and Port Adelaide are not satisfied by the changes, they are certain to reignite their push to join the VFL in 2026.

“The SANFL will complete its review over the coming months, which will involve discussions with SANFL clubs, the AFL, Adelaide and Port Adelaide football clubs, other State Leagues and clubs around the nation,” Chandler said.

“As the oldest competition in the nation, established in 1877, we are extremely proud of the rich traditions of our State League competition and will ensure this is protected.

“We are also proud of SANFL’s reputation as being the best competition outside of the AFL and are committed to maintaining this position into the future.”

Port Adelaide and Adelaide remain anchored to the bottom spots on the SANFL ladder with only three wins from 19 matches combined.