1st Test Border Gavaskar Trophy November 22-26 1350hrs @ Perth Stadium

Who will win?

  • Australia

    Votes: 31 83.8%

  • India

    Votes: 5 13.5%

  • Draw

    Votes: 1 2.7%
  • Total voters
    37
  • Poll closed .

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apollo_creed said:
And? He said they had ‘achieved nothing’. Which they literally have by the most relevant metrics.

Arguing about competition is totally relevant when the individuals point was about achievement. By your measurements it’s impossible to achieve anything because any achievement is null and void.
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What has the test unit overall really ‘achieved’? If you put aside what is essentially a made up tournament where there is no round robin element, disproportionate weightings, teams forfeiting points for slow over rates etc etc - and look yes, well done for winning what was an equally weighted final (you sure as hell won’t hear a NZ supporter bemoaning the format that’s for sure after they won it) but leaving that out of it, as a test outfit, what has the side achieved?

Look at the good or great sides or even the ones that don’t get talked about all that often in elevated discussion:

- This, literally THIS actual India side has just come off 18 successive test series wins at home, an undefeated streak dating back to 2012 or something. They have won here twice, the gold standard for an Asian team. That alone is a huge thing but that 18 straight series wins…. That’s huge in itself. Australia has managed 13 wins in its last 18 at home. During that time Australia has lost and drawn its last two series in Sri Lanka, failed to make a dent in India though did go closer last time, has not beaten England and in a sign of how times have changed celebrated a draw last year. The Pakistan win was meritorious enough I guess and so was the Kiwi one but again sides of yesteryear would have probably won those not in the last session of the last match (Pakistan) and coming from behind (NZ).

The great sides of the modern era have been the Waugh and Ponting Australians who were dominant pretty much all the time and the South Africans under smith who didn’t drop an away series for an entire decade and who’s only losses came against Australia in two hard fought home series having finally conquered the Aussies in Australia.

It’s hard to come up with an argument that makes the current Aussie test side anything more than a side that’s just a bit above average realistically
 
Part of me feels like not being able to win the ashes in England in 2023 has stung this side a fair bit. Before that series, you heard from the likes of Smith, Lyon and Khawaja that they felt like they had unfinished business and that this was their last chance to tick it off the list because they probably wouldn’t be there the next time around. Since then, we’ve felt a bit sloppy, like the drive hasn’t been there since from those guys and maybe that’s rubbed off on the others? We got lucky when Pakistan dropped everything last summer, they should’ve won that MCG test. We then drew with the Windies. We were back up and about against New Zealand thanks to Green, Marsh and Carey.

We’ve definitely had a good run in this era, very successful but not a great era. Not winning a series in India or England in the last 20 years is where I think our frustrations lie.
 

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While India were being beaten by NZ, the fact is their cricketers have still been playing test cricket

our mob can't even bother showing up for shield games..Marsh and Head haven't played a game in weeks
poor preparation to say the least
 
PhatBoy said:
Australia has managed 13 wins in its last 18 at home. During that time Australia has lost and drawn its last two series in Sri Lanka, failed to make a dent in India though did go closer last time, has not beaten England and in a sign of how times have changed celebrated a draw last year. The Pakistan win was meritorious enough I guess and so was the Kiwi one but again sides of yesteryear would have probably won those not in the last session of the last match (Pakistan) and coming from behind (NZ).
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A 2-2 draw is worth celebrating considering all of the away Ashes dating back to 2001 were losses.
 
Marshland said:
A 2-2 draw is worth celebrating considering all of the away Ashes dating back to 2001 were losses.
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It was an improvement but all those losses were also probably - this is subjective - against better England teams as well: only time will truly determine that depending on where some of their current players finish up but it was a series most memorable for the closeness of the cricket not its standard
 
PhatBoy said:
Mate of mine went to town on Facebook tonight so I sent him a link to a pretty basic scientific explanation of why it’s perfectly legal by any definition.

His response was ‘so can people just get an operation to be able to have double jointed elbows and be able to hyper extend?’

I said no.

And he said ‘well as far as I’m concerned it’s illegal then and he should be banned. If others can’t bowl like that it’s unfair.’
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No one could or will bowl like Shane Warne, it was unfair but that doesn't mean he should be banned. Stupid logic.
 

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PhatBoy said:
What has the test unit overall really ‘achieved’? If you put aside what is essentially a made up tournament where there is no round robin element, disproportionate weightings, teams forfeiting points for slow over rates etc etc - and look yes, well done for winning what was an equally weighted final (you sure as hell won’t hear a NZ supporter bemoaning the format that’s for sure after they won it) but leaving that out of it, as a test outfit, what has the side achieved?

Look at the good or great sides or even the ones that don’t get talked about all that often in elevated discussion:

- This, literally THIS actual India side has just come off 18 successive test series wins at home, an undefeated streak dating back to 2012 or something. They have won here twice, the gold standard for an Asian team. That alone is a huge thing but that 18 straight series wins…. That’s huge in itself. Australia has managed 13 wins in its last 18 at home. During that time Australia has lost and drawn its last two series in Sri Lanka, failed to make a dent in India though did go closer last time, has not beaten England and in a sign of how times have changed celebrated a draw last year. The Pakistan win was meritorious enough I guess and so was the Kiwi one but again sides of yesteryear would have probably won those not in the last session of the last match (Pakistan) and coming from behind (NZ).

The great sides of the modern era have been the Waugh and Ponting Australians who were dominant pretty much all the time and the South Africans under smith who didn’t drop an away series for an entire decade and who’s only losses came against Australia in two hard fought home series having finally conquered the Aussies in Australia.

It’s hard to come up with an argument that makes the current Aussie test side anything more than a side that’s just a bit above average realistically
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Very good points. I haven't thought about it & tbh the way the players of this side are spoken of in the media paints a picture of a very dominant team which you've clearly shown isn't accurate.
 
134 overs out in the field for aus in the 2nd innings. That's a bloody long time, India used a similar tactic to great success last series. Aus have to rotate their bowlers or they'll be burnt out. India will need to manage theirs too.
 
ABAB said:
We lead 2-0 before that Carey stumping and change of ball incidents.
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Exactly so there should have been no way any side doesn’t WIN the series outright a draw is almost losing it from there. Very average series
 
LukeParkerno1 said:
Exactly so there should have been no way any side doesn’t WIN the series outright a draw is almost losing it from there. Very average series
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An Ashes series goes for 5 matches. We went ahead early and losing Lyon in the second test was the decisive factor in not closing the series out easily.

Should we have eked out a series win? I think so, we were the better side but cricket doesn't always play to script and England did enough to square the ledger.
 
Blue1980 said:
It’s not the issue now, people always bring it up when we aren’t going well.

The side from 95 to 08 or so was great because it contained so many great cricketers, not because they sledged people.
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making batsmen feel uncomfortable at the crease (without crossing the line) is a part of cricket like it or not. Being overly friendly to the opposition is counter productive

watching the ashes in england last year it was so obvious how friendly we were with the poms..In turn their arrogance and looking down their noses at us was also very evident. Why were we trying to be their friends when they were showing us zero respect..it was pathetic
 
Gone are the days where we had an Opener like Mark Taylor who would grind it out and also he was a very good leaver of the ball too - knew where his off-stump was. A true Test cricketer, he faced some of the all time great fast bowlers.
 
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1st Test Border Gavaskar Trophy November 22-26 1350hrs @ Perth Stadium

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