Women's Netball Team (Licence Handed Back May ‘23)

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Can someone please post the 2 part article about the magpies netball team from the herald sun. Thanks
Ive read both articles, very interesting yet bittersweet all the same.

Collingwood’s netball program is officially on the sporting death row known as “under review’’. Whether it can avoid a beheading seems doubtful, with seven years of underperformance and financial haemorrhaging leading to sustained board unrest that has now bubbled over.
Magpies CEO Craig Kelly called a meeting of players and staff on Tuesday morning to advise the stunned group that whether or not the club fielded a Super Netball team next season would be determined after working through money and other issues with Netball Australia over the next seven days.


“They are all in a panic at the moment,’’ said one source with knowledge of the gathering at the AIA Centre.

Given that Visit Victoria bailed out the national body last year with a $15 million sponsorship deal once the arrangement with Hancock Prospecting was controversially withdrawn, there is also a suggestion that state government assistance is being sought to keep alive the second Victorian franchise, backed by the nation’s biggest sporting club.

Kelly’s address came after the publication of part one of CODE Sports’ investigation into the issues that have plagued the Magpies’ netball operations almost since its birth, ahead of the 2017 season. Then, a new club now fully owned by the NRL’s Melbourne Storm – Sunshine Coast Lightning – was also introduced, while a second NSW licence was granted to Netball NSW, which runs GIANTS Netball, as part of a strategic alliance with AFL club Greater Western Sydney.
It is understood that the survival of Collingwood’s netball initiative has been imperilled at various stages in its almost-seven-year life. Several board members – including the departed Alex Waislitz and Mark Korda – are believed to have questioned the cost and worth of continuing amid frustration over its treatment by both Netball Victoria – which operates the popular Melbourne Vixens – and Netball Australia.

Kelly was appointed as Collingwood CEO in January, inheriting a program that has been problematic since a respectable first season. Three top-four finishes in six years have never progressed beyond the minor semi-final stage, but this year’s disastrous collapse – resulting in just two wins in just nine rounds – has left the Pies languishing on the bottom of the ladder, and favourites for a second wooden spoon in four years.

While exact numbers remain in-house, membership is minimal. Crowds, after a promising first year, have shrivelled to now be easily the lowest in the competition; something painfully apparent in the almost-10,000-capacity John Cain Arena that only against the rival Melbourne Vixens comes close to being full.

Kelly was unavailable for comment but the timing is clearly aligned with the expiration of the current Collective Player Agreement at the end of September, given that all of the league’s 80 players are out of contract at season’s end.

New Team Participation Agreements are also being negotiated for 2024 and beyond. Should Collingwood hand back its licence, an eighth club would be required under the current broadcasting deal with FOX Sports, which runs until the end of 2026.

After a day of chaos, the following statement was received at 5.30pm from Netball Australia CEO Kelly Ryan:

“Netball Australia has been notified by Collingwood that it is reviewing its Suncorp Super Netball team program.

“We’re working with Collingwood and all stakeholders in relation to this matter.

Rob Wright knows his three years as assistant and then head coach of Collingwood netball were disastrous. Horrific, to use another favoured word. He acknowledges that he should never have gone there in the first place. And absolutely should not have taken over.
“The worst mistake I ever made in my career,’’ says Wright, who succeeded Kristy Keppich-Birrell in 2019 and was sacked after a devastating one-win season in 2020 in the Queensland hub.


“If I had my time again, I’d stay well clear. Even if they paid me double, I wouldn’t go. Never felt it was a good environment. So yeah, a disaster from my point of view to go there.’’

So, why did he?

“Oh, look, that’s a good question,’’ says the former NSW Swifts’ head coach, now an assistant with New Zealand club Northern Mystics and Jamaica’s Sunshine Girls.

“I certainly at the time was wanting something different. When the opportunity came up, I thought, ‘Oh, this could be really interesting’, because I thought being part of a team outside of a netball body would be really fascinating. And I should never have taken the head coach job. I knew it was a mistake. I knew the first week.’’

Having been targeted, in part, because of his close relationship with defender Sharni Norder, who was dealing with mental health issues, there were also injuries, retirements, a pregnancy, personnel changes. Inflated egos. Amid what one 2018-listed player calls “a real jostling for power’’.

Add the off-court challenges of being part of Australia’s most famous football club, in what was an incredibly well-resourced netball program in some respects but stretched in others; one that has never truly flourished, regardless. One competing against a highly professional outfit, the VIS-backed and Netball Vic-owned Melbourne Vixens, keen to defend its turf.

Wright accepts full blame for the results, he says, having been on personal leave to help care for his dying mother when the Pies made a spirited run into the finals during the final three rounds of 2019 under co-caretakers Nicole Richardson and Kate Upton, before the annus horribilis of a Covid-compromised 2020.

“It was a perfect storm. Why it didn’t work was my fault,” he says. “At the end of the day, it was a failure. But it’s also fate. Everything happens for a reason. You look at yourself and go, ‘OK, well, how do I do things better? What would I do differently?’ I don’t blame other people. That’s all on me.’’

On joining the Auckland-based Mystics in 2021, Wright says he felt immediately welcomed and valued. He believes the best thing that happened during his time at Collingwood was the connection with Sunshine Girls Jodi-Ann Ward and Shimona Nelson, which led to his volunteer position with Jamaica.

One that almost helped to bring the Diamonds unstuck at last year’s Commonwealth Games and will continue at the World Cup in July.

The two big signings of Wright’s first season in the top job, following a dismal seventh under Kristy Keppich-Birrell in 2018, were dual Sunshine Coast premiership pair Geva Mentor and Kelsey Browne, younger sister of Madi. Throw in Nat Medhurst, the triple world champion, and a trio of big names had just come to town. Or back to it, anyway.

Browne told CODE Sports last October in previously unpublished comments that she felt something special was “brewing” for the Pies in 2023, having returned from the Lightning premiership reunion and remembering while she was there both what a special group it was and how hard flags are to win.

She reflected on the challenges faced by her sister Madi, Caity Thwaites and other foundation players “trying to pave a way in a big club like Collingwood and it would have been so difficult’’; also the contrast between the stable, long-serving group led by Kate Moloney, Liz Watson, Jo Weston and Emily Mannix at her original team, the Vixens.

“They know each other like the back of their hand and they’ve had that core group together and it appears like they love each other, and they love the club and they love playing netball for the club, and I look at that and I go, ‘I think we are finding that at Collingwood’,’’ vice-captain Browne said ahead of her fifth season in black-and-white.

“I do think there’s a different vibe, but I think that’s come from people in our past having to do all of the hard work to get us to where we are now, to be honest, because it has been a tough few years.’’

It was time to come home when she did, says the Geelong-raised former Diamond, who nevertheless recognised how different Collingwood was from the Lightning; owned by the Melbourne Storm but based in more intimate surrounds two states away.

“It’s so big, the club is just so big and it employs so many people,” she continues. “And it’s just a juggernaut, and so finding your way in that space and especially being a new team … the club is so supportive, but it is trying to find your identity and I think with anyone, if you don’t have an identity, especially a sporting team, it’s really hard to know what you stand for, your brand, how you want to play.

“We’ve talked about it heaps: a team trying to find where they fit, not only in SSN as a new club, but as a club linked with a football team with a huge history.

“So I think it was about finding our identity and I think we’re getting closer and closer to that, and being able to pass that identity and that brand on to future teams is going to be really important, but you’ve got to have it, first.’’

It seemed an odd alliance to begin with, frankly. The biggest AFL club in the land starting a netball offshoot was a feel-good throwback to the traditional footy-netball club days, powered by undeniably grand plans. What was unknown was that a women’s sport presence was about to arrive in the form of AFLW. But when the Super Netball contracts were confirmed, that was still a growing twinkle in Gillon McLachlan’s eye.

This, too, was the city of the Vixens and the land of member organisations, who can be almost jurassic in their turf-defending ways. As much as the five survivors of the disbanded trans-Tasman league needed three new siblings for their back-to-the-future family, and as keen as the Netball Australia management of the time was to involve cashed-up outsiders with high profiles, there was no real welcome.

Collingwood annoyed the old guard. The ways of the old guard frustrated Collingwood. Not a great basis for a shotgun marriage that had soured even before the wedding night.

There are differing opinions on how helpful/obstructive Netball Victoria and even Netball Australia have been, with one former insider claiming to have had no issues but another describing the two umbrella organisations as mean-spirited, defensive and narrow-minded.

Which, if true, did not help with the viability of a program that was always going to find it difficult competing with the entrenched rival club bankrolled by the state member organisation and its vast database of fee-paying participants; to which the Pies requested access and, to their disgust, were denied.

No crowd or membership numbers were made available to CODE Sports, but it was always painfully clear to Wright that Melbourne is a Vixens town and the inability to make any inroads into their support — helped by both history and success — was, and continues to be, an issue.

“(Collingwood) are a 130-year-old football club, trying to expand to be a global sports powerhouse,’’ he says. “But they never really garnered a strong fan base. They just upset everyone and got off on the wrong foot.’’

There are some parallels with the pre-Vixens days of the two previous Melbourne clubs: the blue-chip, establishment, all-conquering Phoenix that, well, rose from the ashes of the famed Melbourne Blue, and the less fashionable/successful Kestrels.

The pair were merged when the previous league was replaced by the trans-Tasman version for 2008. Flagged as a “super team”, it didn’t work instantly.

Sound familiar?

The difference was that, in a proud and passionate one-team town, premierships were delivered in 2009, 2014 and 2020 when personalities, structures and disciplines clicked into place.

Kestrels, interestingly, was the long-time home of Richardson, the current Pies coach. “I know back in the day when we were playing for Kestrels, we felt like the sister to Phoenix; not that I feel like that here, but it’s hard to be playing catch-up,’’ she says.

“Obviously Netball Victoria own Vixens, so (they receive) a lot of the dollars and when kids join to become a Netball Vic member, they’re just flooded and inundated with Vixens, Vixens, Vixens, so that’s a positive for them. But there’s also a massive positive for us to be aligned with an organisation like Collingwood Football Club.’’


Before CODE Sports broke news that CEO Craig Kelly on Tuesday met with stunned players and staff to advise them that the club’s existence in Super Netball from next season would be determined after working through issues with Netball Australia over the next seven days, one former player compared playing at a deserted John Cain Arena as not just cold and dispiriting but “flushing money down the toilet”.

If the licence is not surrendered and some sort of financial deal — perhaps involving the state government, given the parlous state of Netball Australia’s finances — brokered, Norder is among those who would support shifting games to the smaller State Netball Hockey Centre in Parkville (the Vixens’ training venue, incidentally) as an interim measure.

Or a relocation to Tasmania. Or fixtures in regional areas such as the Latrobe Valley. Neither of which would please FOX Sports, for obvious logistical and cost-related reasons, and only Option A seems remotely viable now should an unexpected reprieve somehow come.

“Even round one I was just like, ‘OK, something needs to change here. This is s**t’,’’ Norder says. “I don’t know how many (fans) were there but on TV, the stadium was empty and I was like, ‘This is so bad for the sport’. If you’re FOX Netball, you do not give Collingwood a home first-round game, because it was just such a bad look.’’
Membership is problematic, too. It is understood that initially, the club was reluctant to market netball to its football members but, given that the Vixens were already supported by the vast majority of non-Pies types, that left little fan-love to spare. Existing staff, too, had more heaped on already-full plates and football was the priority, naturally, for it pays the bills.

“They’re massive, traditional AFL. That’s their core business, right? That’s where they make their money, where netball just drains them of money,’’ Wright says. “So it could have changed now, but I never felt there was that support there. At all.’’

More broadly, along with a lack of dedicated human resources, there was almost a Wizard of Oz-style smoke-and-mirrors element where all is not as it seems.

“The set-up of the club, it’s a big show,’’ one former player believes. “It you pull back the curtain, it’s actually not great.’’

Nevertheless, one former staffer is adamant that Collingwood could have got netball right and is saddened by what has transpired. “It could have succeeded but they just didn’t give it a chance. Too many non-netball people who insisted they knew better.’’

The long list of players who failed to thrive during their time in black and white and/or left underwhelmed by the exit experience include Norder, Thwaites, Kim Ravaillion, Nat Butler (nee Medhurst) and Alice Teague-Neeld while, after an untidy end, Matilda Garrett is now a happy T-Bird and the newest addition to the national squad.

Recollections and theories differ slightly, of course, and several former Magpies can joke - with suitably black humour - that never being on the same page was a big part of the problem.

Thwaites, for example, believes Keppich-Birrell shouldered too much of the blame for the teething problems and the situation was far from clear-cut.

“It was a really tough time,’’ the ex-Diamond said after reading yesterday’s first CODE Sports instalment, with the fact she had thrived under the foundation coach borne out by first and second-place finishes in the best-and-fairest in her two years before the axe fell.

Thwaites went on to play in the Vixens’ 2020 premiership after a Pies exit that was horribly handled, about which she has previously spoken at length.

Brazill, who has endured but will retire from the sport after the final five games of this season, is among the exceptions, having successfully chased her Diamonds dream while also permitted to play her cherished AFLW in the multi-code environment. Imports Nelson and Ward have improved significantly. Brandley and both Browne sisters represented the Diamonds while at the club.

Kelsey is still there, and one of the better performers in a season that started with two wins in the first four rounds, a flogging from the Fever in Perth, plus the one that got away against the Vixens amid the centre pass controversy that may or may not have decided a one-goal game but was hugely dispiriting, regardless.

At the risk of another Vixens’ comparison, for they are two very different animals (or birds), former Diamonds coach Lisa Alexander, who was invited in to conduct training sessions, believes the elite standards and levels of accountability and expectation were vastly different across the two clubs.

Recruiting, too, remains a source of bewilderment to many on the outside. Former Swift Sophie Garbin, for instance, is a goal shooter, not a goal attack, yet was signed by a team already with a one-position GS in Nelson.

Garbin continues to struggle at GA, as does her team, generally, in attack. Indeed, Sunday’s loss against their nemesis, the Giants, was the Pies’ fifth straight, with finals now out of the question and the prospect of a second wooden spoon in four seasons. All players are coming off contract, as word filters out that the coaching staff is splintering, too.

Last month, Richardson declared Collingwood’s move into netball had been a success on the basis of three finals appearances in Super Netball’s first six years, while admitting to still being hungry for a title. On induction day to prepare for 2023, her presentation included an image of a spotlight shining down on an empty box, symbolising a home for a precious premiership cup.

“So we know that there is a piece of silverware that’s missing here and we’ve still got a lot of work to do, but that’s still a priority and that’s still something that’s definitely in my vision,’’ Richardson said, while adding that she was still courting more than scoreboard success.

“When I got the job, my first board presentation was (the desire) that people want to come to Collingwood. I want Collingwood to be the club of choice for our netball program. Not only for athletes in Victoria but Australia and international(ly), and also for support staff. I want athletes to come to our club. I want fans to come to our games.’’



Norder is still involved at the Pies, as the first female director on the board of the (football) past players’ association. She is also, after some initial trepidation about returning to a high-performance environment, back at the Vixens in a part-time defence specialist role and enjoying netball again.

While still doubting that the Magpies (netball) know where they fit.

“But then, the Thunderbirds haven’t been successful (in SSN), either,” she says. “And Firebirds haven’t been successful in the new league. So Collingwood aren’t the only ones. It’s just because they’re Collingwood that it stands out.’’
Across the ditch, Wright is glad to be out of what he thinks was part of a grand vision to build an all-conquering multi-sport family, without understanding what this unfamiliar adopted child required.

“I just think in reality they don’t get netball,’’ he says, with resignation rather than rancour. “They should have stuck to footy.’’
 
To further elaborate on my earlier post Craig Kelly is a good operator. One of the very first things he would have done in the role was to have his finance guys build a dashboard on the SN cost centre finances. Considering we’d be losing somewhere in the vicinity of high hundreds of thousands of $’s PA he’s probably been negotiating our exit ever since. The fact Anderson never did it is either one of contractual obligations or operational ineptitude (my assumption is the former because by and large I thought he was an ok operator).

Yep. The netball team ( and the netball game overall) needs a clear pathway to financial success. If that is not foreseeable in the near to medium term then it’s irresponsible for a football club to keep propping up a netball team indefinitely.
 

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If it wasn’t for woke government grants there would be no AFLW

Using a term like woke doesn’t help your position. You (and me) ain’t the targets for aflw.

The long term goals are things like encouraging more participation for longer, as well as getting more girls to love footy? If that’s woke, then I guess woke is good.


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Using a term like woke doesn’t help your position. You (and me) ain’t the targets for aflw.

The long term goals are things like encouraging more participation for longer, as well as getting more girls to love footy? If that’s woke, then I guess woke is good.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
My position doesn’t need helping
 
My position doesn’t need helping
Have ever been to an AFLW game? VFL game?

I have been to almost every home game and I can assure you that the crowds think differently to you, wife and mother.

It is heart warning to see the Dads bring their young children (young boys and girls) to the games fully decked out in the Pies gear.

One game at Vic Park against WB drew almost 5000 people and its was at $10 entrance which I think is very affordable and I am sure most would happily pay more.

I also go to the local football and before the first game suburban clubs hold clinics for the young kids and I would guess there is an equal number of boys ad girls.

If it wasn’t for woke government grants there would be no AFLW
How much does the government give to AFLW?
 
Have ever been to an AFLW game? VFL game?

I have been to almost every home game and I can assure you that the crowds think differently to you, wife and mother.

It is heart warning to see the Dads bring their young children (young boys and girls) to the games fully decked out in the Pies gear.

One game at Vic Park against WB drew almost 5000 people and its was at $10 entrance which I think is very affordable and I am sure most would happily pay more.

I also go to the local football and before the first game suburban clubs hold clinics for the young kids and I would guess there is an equal number of boys ad girls.


How much does the government give to AFLW?
If you like it enjoy it, personally I think the AFL are wasting their time pursuing this, there is no way the AFLW are pulling their own weight, shockingly bad crowds, pathetic TV numbers, clubs are getting the money to pay the wages from their AFL coffers, if the AFLW clubs had to stand alone they would fall over in a week.
 
If you like it enjoy it, personally I think the AFL are wasting their time pursuing this, there is no way the AFLW are pulling their own weight, shockingly bad crowds, pathetic TV numbers, clubs are getting the money to pay the wages from their AFL coffers, if the AFLW clubs had to stand alone they would fall over in a week.
So no answers to what I asked? Just doubling down on your opinion?

Oh and TV numbers growing every year, not bad for a fledgling game. Numbers don't include those that watch through AFL site.

Season 6
  • Premiership Season viewership – 5,857,630
  • Finals – 1.04m
  • Grand Final viewership – 392,452
Season 7
  • Premiership Season viewership – 7,133,650
  • Finals 1.42m
  • Grand Final viewership – 439,545
 
- not a core part of the business like AFLW is now

- not remotely a profit maker

- most female sports are subsidised by the corresponding male version… netball largely ignores male netballers

- as I said at the time… when Collingwood handed back their pokies license… it was going to result in less revenue.

Less revenue leads to business decisions like scrapping the netball team 🤷‍♂️
 
So no answers to what I asked? Just doubling down on your opinion?

Oh and TV numbers growing every year, not bad for a fledgling game. Numbers don't include those that watch through AFL site.

Season 6
  • Premiership Season viewership – 5,857,630
  • Finals – 1.04m
  • Grand Final viewership – 392,452
Season 7
  • Premiership Season viewership – 7,133,650
  • Finals 1.42m
  • Grand Final viewership – 439,545
2 home and away games cracked 3000 attendance in 2022, and let’s not pretend they don’t throw the gates open for many of those games.

Minimum wage is 20k, some players are earning near 80k, by the looks of some of the players a large portion of those wages are spent at KFC.

Those television ratings you posted are pathetic, overall the networks would lose money broadcasting AFLW IMO.

AFLW have received 10s of millions in grants across the country, look it up.
 

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AFLW have received 10s of millions in grants across the country, look it up.
You made the claim which is why I asked you to post details.



Minimum salaries in the AFL Women's (AFLW) competition will increase from A$20,239 ($14,100) to A$39,184 in the coming season, while the best two players at each club will receive A$71,935, up from A$37,155 last season.
 
Did not know that. Where can I stream our VFL games?

AFL’s site via the drop down menu then to VFL. Then via fixture and streaming. They do a live stream as well as providing replays.

 
This might not seem very relevant, but the Collingwood Magpies' affiliation with Tasmania is so, so, so smart. I know lots of girls who didn't care the slightest about football that found themselves on the Collingwood bandwagon, particularly last year because of the partnership. If the netball club connected more with the community and wasn't always fighting for attention, it would do better. Keeping it is important as women's sport makes the club more inclusive, more friendly and a better club. It's not uncommon for other sports teams to be part of groups with other clubs. For example, Real Madrid has a basketball side and more clubs are starting to invest in women's sport.
 
Thank you. Can you get it to steam on the TV?
I tried it with my smart TV but didn't work via the internet.

Only way I can do it is to plug my ipad (USB cable) or laptop (HDMI cable) into TV then stream from either one.
 
If you like it enjoy it, personally I think the AFL are wasting their time pursuing this, there is no way the AFLW are pulling their own weight, shockingly bad crowds, pathetic TV numbers, clubs are getting the money to pay the wages from their AFL coffers, if the AFLW clubs had to stand alone they would fall over in a week.

I have been a Collingwood supporter since I was 5 years old. We lived near Vic park and we all went to the games as a family. While my brothers played little league and could dream of playing, girls like me with no less love for the club could never imagine as a little girl playing for the Pies.

I had a tear in my eye to see the girls wearing the jumper.

Love to follow them.


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